U.S. and Russian Jets Clash Over Syria

[LUCASWILLEN05]

2 minutes ago, Sublime said:

Id say this is already way worse than Libya 2.0 and there hasnt even been a regime change yet.

Oh and we supported the people overthrowing the government in Ukraine. Key thing there. We supported the PEOPLE. Thats different than supporting a state that broke up peaceful protests by mass murder. Assad brought this bs on himself. Barrel bombs and giggling about dead countrymen as a result of his actions. A despicable character.

I would call the Middle East a "Devil's Brew" and untangling it will be harder than trying to unpickthe Gordian knot (without a good sharp sword)

As for Assad he will have to goas part of any peace deal but we may have to swallow hard and hold our noses while we work with him in theshort term. Later he could be allowed to go off into a comfortable exile in Russia with immunity from, war crimes charges to sweeten the pill

[VladimirTarasov]

8 minutes ago, Sublime said:

Id say this is already way worse than Libya 2.0 and there hasnt even been a regime change yet.

Oh and we supported the people overthrowing the government in Ukraine. Key thing there. We supported the PEOPLE. Thats different than supporting a state that broke up peaceful protests by mass murder. Assad brought this bs on himself. Barrel bombs and giggling about dead countrymen as a result of his actions. A despicable character.

No you supported a violent riot that killed police, and even killed people in this riot. I am lost at words if you are saying that the US did right in Kiev, This just justifies my beliefs personally to me even more. Assad did not bring any of this BS to himself, how ever I'm not willing to go into detailed argument over the how the conflict started. I'm just defending Russia against very bias comments against it. If you say you supported the people in Syria, we've supported the people in Ukraine which has been not allowed to speak its own language and been shelled and murdered by a regime they had no say in! But anyways I'm going off topic and probably shouldn't have but it really angers me that the US gets away with exactly what it is accusing Russia of.

[Sublime]

Uh no we didnt engineer any coup in Kiev. And the Donbass is a very small part of Ukraine as a whole. So whilst the stories whether true or not of crucified babies and all that are true or not ( you tell me. How reliable do you find RT? I dont believe a single word fox news says and nor rlly msnbc and yet I cant think of anytime they showed something their government was denying then they edited and reedited once it was clear it wasnt missed. I mean I guess (?) This may be an improvement over Russia doing the equivalent of a childs temper tantrum and holding its ears and screeching when in the Soviet era people would vanish from photos once they were out of favor.

And my comments on the su 24 buzzing the ship have nothing at all to do with it having missiles. It was very unprofessional at that speed and level a strong crosswind or twitch of the hand or even the pilot not seeing an extra high antenna and wham you have 2 dead russians and a lot of dead Americans.

And dont flaunt or throw your military about on my borders? Lmao man. The Russians reintroduced the games of chicken not the west.

 I wonder how you guys would have reacted to US planes buzzing your TU95s flying off our coast dangerously close and if we buzzed your ships in the Baltics or the Atlantic. International waters are international waters.

And actually the US military freely admits that even precision munitions nor any munition is 100 percent accurate. We.ve never claimed that. And dude iron bombs... yes they may hit. They may miss by 5m. Which is still a big margin of error.  But you can find plenty of footage of Russian attack helos doing level dumb bomb attacks. Even in a Su25 the only reason I could see risking flying level and accuracy that you could gain a lot out of by diving would be enemy air defenses. The Syrian insurgents arent shooting or hitting at least anyones planes. And Mi24s dont have bomb guidance computers. Do you contend that a mi24 flying over a city in level flight dropping bombs is aiming at a particular target or even has a error zone of less than 5m? Id say thats impossible.

 

P.s. i could see where it seems that way but Im not proud the US is the only superpower. I actually feel its a fools errand because we have every napoleon complex nation state using us as the biggest kid on the block to aim at messing with to look good. We dont intervene in Syria everyone flips out we do everyone flips out. Id be happier if America left the rest of the world to burn but luckily for the world this isnt my superpower, my empire, nor am I part of the US govt. In fact if anything Im definitely an American and thats where my loyalties will always lie but the US government has proven itself to be no real friend of mine directly. Of course what defines the US govt for me in the US is a different show than what a non US person would see of the US govt.  I.e. police vs military etc etc.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Sublime

[VladimirTarasov]

2 minutes ago, Sublime said:

Uh no we didnt engineer any coup in Kiev. And the Donbass is a very small part of Ukraine as a whole. So whilst the stories whether true or not of crucified babies and all that are true or not ( you tell me. How reliable do you find RT? I dont believe a single word fox news says and nor rlly msnbc and yet I cant think of anytime they showed something their government was denying then they edited and reedited once it was clear it wasnt missed. I mean I guess (?) This may be an improvement over Russia doing the equivalent of a childs temper tantrum and holding its ears and screeching when in the Soviet era people would vanish from photos once they were out of favor.

No babies were crucified by the Ukrainian government, stop quoting irrelevant people's claims. I am not those people, I'm just saying the truth I promise I'm no Russia fan boy I know our policies very well and do disagree with it in some areas. The US and EU spent bunch of money on investing into the Ukrainian media in order to make sure that people are well under propaganda. But sooner or later someone is gonna start getting tired of the economic situation in Ukraine, where is their EU now? All those people killed in Kiev for nothing. For God's sake we had Senator John McCaine standing next to the far right group of Ukraine, which was the most violent in Kiev revolts, and Senator John said "America is with you." 

12 minutes ago, Sublime said:

And my comments on the su 24 buzzing the ship have nothing at all to do with it having missiles. It was very unprofessional at that speed and level a strong crosswind or twitch of the hand or even the pilot not seeing an extra high antenna and wham you have 2 dead russians and a lot of dead Americans.

The closest the pilot got was 40-60 feet from the plane, as you can see nothing happened to the ship no need to worry. It won't happen either, Russian pilots know what they are doing.

13 minutes ago, Sublime said:

And dont flaunt or throw your military about on my borders? Lmao man. The Russians reintroduced the games of chicken not the west.

 

Nonesense, both sides have been doing such things, since the Cold War. Russian pilots take it a bit more extreme than US pilots do how ever I will agree with you there.

14 minutes ago, Sublime said:

I wonder how you guys would have reacted to US planes buzzing your TU95s flying off our coast dangerously close and if we buzzed your ships in the Baltics or the Atlantic. International waters are international waters.

You have all rights to do so.

14 minutes ago, Sublime said:

And actually the US military freely admits that even precision munitions nor any munition is 100 percent accurate. We.ve never claimed that. And dude iron bombs... yes they may hit. They may miss by 5m. Which is still a big margin of error.  But you can find plenty of footage of Russian attack helos doing level dumb bomb attacks. Even in a Su25 the only reason I could see risking flying level and accuracy that you could gain a lot out of by diving would be enemy air defenses. The Syrian insurgents arent shooting or hitting at least anyones planes. And Mi24s dont have bomb guidance computers. Do you contend that a mi24 flying over a city in level flight dropping bombs is aiming at a particular target or even has a error zone of less than 5m? Id say thats impossible.

Do you suggest the Russian air force to some how be able to uber accurately target groups hiding in Urban environments? Work is being done with what is at hand. BTW rebel groups have targeted Syrian air craft and successfully hit them fore flying so vulnerable. Russian helicopters are still doing fine because of the tactics you seen in footage, that low flying is keeping them from MANPAD threats, while also being able to accurately target without GPS guided munitions or computers. MI-28s and KA-52s have been used as well, but you see Russia hasn't deployed MI-28s and KA-52s on mass as they have MI-24s to Syria.

[Codename Duchess]

34 minutes ago, VladimirTarasov said:

The closest the pilot got was 40-60 feet from the plane, as you can see nothing happened to the ship no need to worry. It won't happen either, Russian pilots know what they are doing.

I don't have time to go through everything right now but as someone who has flown 50 feet off the water before it is the most stressful, tiring, and dangerous thing I have ever done. With modern Terrain Following Radar it's marginally easier but by no means less stressful, and I can't speak to the quality or existence of that capability in the SU-24. So no, they absolutely had every right to worry because it takes like a tenth of a second to screw up and die at that speed and altitude. Your brain won't even recognize it before it happens. This isn't an anti-Russia thing, it's an anto-stupidity thing and I hope you can recognize that. And that's before you're flying at an object with masts taller than your altitude. So no, it wasn't professional. It was reckless, provocative and exceedingly dangerous for all involved and we had reason to protest the method (if not the presence, a flyby is fine, legal, and a regular occurrence if conducted SAFELY).

Furthermore the Destroyer would have had no way to verify it was unarmed until weapon release as that's not how anti-ship missile seekers work. Plus drop tanks can look awful suspicious when viewed through a camera.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Codename Duchess

[Battlefront.com]

OK, closing this up.  Syria is off topic anyway, but having a whole thread arguing with a single person that doesn't think that Assad is a murderous tyrant is rather pointless.  As it is pointless to have a discussion with someone who thinks the world is flat.

Vladimir, you have a very good command of the English language.  You have no excuse for being so totally misinformed.  Frankly, I'm getting tired of having you refuse to understand how badly your government is lying to you and how absolutely amoral its motives and methods are in places like Ukraine and Syria.

Steve