John Kettler Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 Having recently binge watched a wonderful BBC 2 documentary series called Royal Navy School online, part of which was built around a small barrel bodied bulldog of a female CPO teaching close order drill on the parade ground. She was instructing and harshly (not even sure most of the words and phrases used were within regs here in the US military) correcting the recruits intermittently and generally bawling out various commands with a volume and power which was remarkable to both the recruits and myself. That was quite the thing to see and hear all by themselves, but I was blown away when I realized she had a swagger stick! it was tucked firmly between her arm and ribs, at times practically in her armpit. I thought swagger sticks were exclusive to officers in the British Armed Forces. When, under what circumstances and how do enlisted personnel rate a swagger stick? When did this first occur and why? I absolutely don't get it and have never seen the like. Would one of our British Members, especially active duty or retired Royal Navy, please shed some light on this most perplexing matter? Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody901 Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 More likely to be a Pace Stick for a drill sergeant. Used to measure out paces. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pace_stick Hope this helps Mick Wood 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted May 29, 2016 Author Share Posted May 29, 2016 (edited) woody901, First I've heard of one of those. Appreciate the info. Unfortunately, that wasn't what she had. See for yourself. Channel 4 (not BBC 2 as I earlier stated) has the whole shebang ( I left out front of URL /programmes/royal-navy-school), but so does YT. This clip will suffice, though, for me to show you why I think it's a swagger stick. The language warning is apt. Either watch it privately or with the sound off in any place where people have, as Dad used to say, "shell pink ears." Now that you've seen what I saw... (Stops dead, keeps reading in the Pace Stick Wiki) In reading what you sent me, I see we both missed something important. The part after the pace stick discourse says "Another stick carried by soldiers is the drill cane, regimental stick or swagger stick. This is a shorter cane, with polished metal ends. Sometimes these sticks are ornamented by a mock bullet casing, half at each end of the stick; these ornaments are often chromed, or left in their natural brass, but highly polished. They are carried on parade solely as an indicator of rank and authority by senior non-commissioned officers and warrant officers, and their use is generally governed (or restricted altogether) by the regimental sergeant major." The last Bold is mine. There can be no doubt whatsoever that the drill CPO (presuming I didn't get her rank wrong, too, though she's definitely senior enlisted) falls under the above rubric.There's a great line from "Zulu" in which the long-suffering RSM is calling the roll, whereupon someone says" Here, Sergeant." The RSM, without missing a beat responds: "Say Sir. Officer when on parade." That line is burned into my brain till I die. Regards, John Kettler Edited May 29, 2016 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 The stick carried by the Royal Navy Petty Officer (not CPO) is most definitely a pace stick. If you type 'pace stick' in Google Images as a search term you will see various images of pace sticks in the closed and open position. When I was a youth they were often used to prod and inflict other acts of violence on dozy recruits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) Combatintman, Comparing what she's carrying with a pace stick shows me what she has is way too short. Nor does it have, that I can see, two legs, as in the woody901 example. Shall have another look and report back. (Goes away and checks.) As is clearly visible at 00:12 and at 00;51 in the video, the item in question is a single rod, not two with a pivot. It is made of some unknown hardwood and is completely rounded on one end. A short way down is affixed some sort of placard, though it's hard to say more than that. On the other end there is what appears to be a brass ferrule, in the form of the frustrum of a tall cone. Regards, John Kettler Edited June 8, 2016 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Sigh ... RN School Image ... Other image showing pace stick both open and closed ... It is a pace stick as carried by drill instructors and RSMs (or their equivalent) in the armed forces of the Commonwealth and I should know having served in one (British) for 25 years and another (Australian) for 6 years ... and still serving. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) warms my heart ... Edited June 19, 2016 by JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 "warms my heart ..." Is that the Port hitting the spot! An old school cricket club my club plays as well as incorporating the mid interval 'tea' which is a hot cooked meal also includes a bottle of Port on every table - with interesting results in the 2nd innings for both sides :-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 sorry can no longer resist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) Combatintman and JonS, I very much appreciate your educating me in a previously arcane to me topic. It's clear there was a resolution issue which prevented me from seeing the crack and hinge (not to mention never imagining to begin with what the formidable CPO had was anything but a monobloc stick), resulting in my clearly erroneous interpretation. In the course of watching the videos, I came across this most interesting doc on the The Glass House (Military Corrective Centre, Colchester). There, the pace stick is repeatedly visible. Colchester seems like a lovely picnic, though, compared to the Russian version of The Glass House as described by Suvorov/Rezun in his searing book, The Liberators. The recidivism rate there is practically zero. If you read the book, you'll completely understand why. And this is what they did to an officer cadet about to graduate! Regards, John Kettler Edited June 20, 2016 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, sburke said: sorry can no longer resist. 10 minutes away from where I live - Colchester Cavalry barracks where they also filmed Blackadder scenes and where I learnt to march as well. Now converted into civvie housing as Paras have a new modern built base further out of town with an old restored Dakota at the entrance. Edited June 20, 2016 by Wicky 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 John - as I previously pointed out - the lady in the RN School documentary is a Petty Officer and not a Chief Petty Officer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Navy_ratings_rank_insignia 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) On 6/20/2016 at 4:09 PM, John Kettler said: It's clear there was a resolution issue which prevented me from seeing the crack and hinge (not to mention never imagining to begin with what the formidable CPO had was anything but a monobloc stick), resulting in my clearly erroneous interpretation. There is no "resolution" issue. There is a "comprehension" issue and an "I'm not listening to you" issue, coupled with a "no way am I changing my narrow mind" issue. Just like there always is. Edited June 27, 2016 by JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 Combatintman, Got crossed up on that. My apologies. JonS, By "resolution issue," I'm saying that, given the less than stellar quality of the image I was working from, and with no knowledge such a thing as pace stick existed, I saw the pace stick as a solid monobloc stick, and the only such stick I knew of was a swagger stick. Now I know better. There is zero need here for snark. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 5 hours ago, John Kettler said: There is zero need here for snark. But Jon will never pass it up anyway. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis50 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Emrys is almost always right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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