Company level campaigns

[[MyIS] Buffpuff]

I apologize if this has been brought up before but I'm wondering why there aren't a whole lot of company level type campaigns for CMBN. There are 2 campaigns that I can think of (Devils Descent and Bridge Too Close) that really did, at least in my opinion, an excellent job of keeping the "managing forces" to a good level. I just finished Kampfgruppe Engel and I'll have to admit I had to do some missions over again to get a respectable outcome (or at least an outcome where I didn't get walloped). Maybe I'm in the minority but I haven't been a fan of the big battalion level campaigns. Is it a lack of interest or scenario designers (or maybe a combination of both)?

[Bulletpoint]

A very good question. I've always wondered the same thing, myself.

[landser]

Company sized campaigns are the sweet spot for me as well. A few more to try:

-- The Outlaws. Starts off platoon level, though eventually does ramp up to about battalion sized. There are quite a few missions before this happens. American campaign with paratroops, with leg units joining up later.

-- Sie Kommen II Axis. Company sized German campaign with little in the way of heavy armor. I haven't tried the Allied version yet. Rather small maps that result in much more fire than maneuver.

-- A Bloody Ride. Currently playing this one. Platoon/Company sized German campaign. Panzer Lehr attack against Americans near Vire River.

[landser]

I should add that perhaps A Bloody Ride ramps up to larger sized, I'm only 3 or 4 battles in.

And I just took a look and Blazing 88's has left up his dropbox, good man. Check his post in this thread to grab any of these campaigns you don't have.

 

[[MyIS] Buffpuff]

Thanks for the links Landser! I had tried Blue and Gray and was immediately turned off by the opening beach mission on that one. It was realistic that the Allies had a very tough time on Omaha Beach but I'm not a huge fan of the opening move in to contact (and in this case you are on the receiving end of a LOT of contact).

[Bulletpoint]

5 minutes ago, [MyIS] Buffpuff said:

Thanks for the links Landser! I had tried Blue and Gray and was immediately turned off by the opening beach mission on that one. It was realistic that the Allies had a very tough time on Omaha Beach but I'm not a huge fan of the opening move in to contact (and in this case you are on the receiving end of a LOT of contact).

Blue and Grey actually has not only one, but two opening beach missions. The first is impossible, if I remember right, but you can skip it and go straight to the second, which is really difficult, but it is winnable. I never made it further than that though, as I was put off by the following "scout out the village mission" and never got back to the campaign.

[[MyIS] Buffpuff]

1 minute ago, Bulletpoint said:

Blue and Grey actually has not only one, but two opening beach missions. The first is impossible, if I remember right, but you can skip it and go straight to the second, which is really difficult, but it is winnable. I never made it further than that though, as I was put off by the following "scout out the village mission" and never got back to the campaign.

I don't mind "difficult" missions. I consider myself an intermediate-level player in that I think I do a fairly decent job against the AI but find myself always learning more and more with each play through. What I don't enjoy is a meat grinder mission like the first one in Blue and Grey. I'm not a scenario designer (maybe I should really consider trying to learn AI plans as the basic editor stuff I've figured out on my own) but I like JonS' approach to making them. Give the player a reasonable objective and the means to formulate a plan to put that plan into action. I just don't like getting bogged down in a huge gigantic map with a battalion level sized number of forces because it just seems like there is so much to keep up with and you inevitably miss something no matter how many times you replay a turn.

[Bulletpoint]

I completely agree. I wish more scenario designers had the same idea.

Right now I am playing through the Scottish Corridor campaign by Paper Tiger. It's impressive in many ways, and a good challenge, but I always feel like I am playing a computer puzzle game rather than commanding a real battlefield. There are just a bit too many oddly shaped hedges and walls in funny places solely to block off any approach or line of fire that the designer doesn't want me to use. Often, the challenge comes from game engine limitations, such as when I cannot target the ground floor of a building even though it's clearly visible to my tank, etc.

Of course the reason is that he wants to portray a tough and determined German resistance, but the "hidden hand" of the designer just sometimes seems a bit too obvious. Still, enjoying it so far, as a puzzle game. 

Edited April 12, 2016 by Bulletpoint

[landser]

12 minutes ago, [MyIS] Buffpuff said:

... I like JonS' approach to making them. Give the player a reasonable objective and the means to formulate a plan to put that plan into action.

I agree, he made KG Engel, correct? That's been my favorite campaign I've played. Innovative missions like Tiger Poaching, Guardian Angel and Hunters in the Mist. I enjoyed it start to finish, even though Deliverance kicked my ass. Which final mission did you get? I know there was a defend mission also, but I got the attack mission and it was too difficult for me. My hat's off to anyone who managed a victory in that one.

A few thoughts on The Outlaws. Your paratroops are crack. This makes the early missions sort of easy really. And quick. I played probably the first 4 battles in a single evening. Not only do crack troops deal devastating fire, I was amazed over and over as they survived situations that would have resulted in casualties with lesser troops. However, things turn more difficult with the mission D+1. A nice change of pace after dealing with troops that get rattled by the sound of their own artillery (like Scottish Corridor)

 

[A Canadian Cat]

24 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Blue and Grey actually has not only one, but two opening beach missions. The first is impossible, if I remember right, but you can skip it and go straight to the second, which is really difficult, but it is winnable. I never made it further than that though, as I was put off by the following "scout out the village mission" and never got back to the campaign.

I ran into my usual problem with playing the AI - I got bored.  But I have to say the first mission in the Blue and the Grey was possibly one of my favourite missions.  Yes it is winnable - I've done it.  I forced the Germans to surrender just as I was organizing my stragglers to push for the final objective.

I agree it was difficult to face a second beach landing after the first one.  But you are correct the second one is considerably easier.

What I liked about that first mission *was* the grind.  It made me think about those that actually made that landing.  Holy Crap!  You have to forget your usual find a safe way, find places with cover, make sure everyone is at least not tired and look for the opening. Instead you have to just force your way across and then try to accomplish the mission with what ever depleted and broken men you have left.  I'm not saying all scenarios should be like that but we should all take on one of those just to say we have done it.  I realized a long time ago in this game that you can force your men to push and push and push.  It gets harder and harder as their morale gets worse and they take casualties.  This mission was the first time that approach felt like it was legitimate and true to life.

As someone wise has in their sig line "Good wargames make you think"

 

16 minutes ago, [MyIS] Buffpuff said:

I'm not a scenario designer (maybe I should really consider trying to learn AI plans as the basic editor stuff I've figured out on my own) but I like JonS' approach to making them. Give the player a reasonable objective and the means to formulate a plan to put that plan into action.

Yes, do give it a go.  Following @JonS 's philosophy and his "during design report" is a great way to get into it. There are a whole bunch of people who are good to listen to as well (sorry I should really name you all but I am afraid I'll forget someone).  Just post questions in the maps and mods sub forum and you will get advice.  Go for it - more designers is a good thing.

 

[Bulletpoint]

1 minute ago, IanL said:

I ran into my usual problem with playing the AI - I got bored.  But I have to say the first mission in the Blue and the Grey was possibly one of my favourite missions.  Yes it is winnable - I've done it.  I forced the Germans to surrender just as I was organizing my stragglers to push for the final objective.

I'm really impressed, but I have to ask if you did that before the machineguns were made more powerful?

[[MyIS] Buffpuff]

6 minutes ago, landser said:

I agree, he made KG Engel, correct? That's been my favorite campaign I've played. Innovative missions like Tiger Poaching, Guardian Angel and Hunters in the Mist. I enjoyed it start to finish, even though Deliverance kicked my ass. Which final mission did you get? I know there was a defend mission also, but I got the attack mission and it was too difficult for me. My hat's off to anyone who managed a victory in that one.

A few thoughts on The Outlaws. Your paratroops are crack. This makes the early missions sort of easy really. And quick. I played probably the first 4 battles in a single evening. Not only do crack troops deal devastating fire, I was amazed over and over as they survived situations that would have resulted in casualties with lesser troops. However, things turn more difficult with the mission D+1. A nice change of pace after dealing with troops that get rattled by the sound of their own artillery (like Scottish Corridor)

 

 

If memory serves me correctly Jon and Chris made that campaign. I agree in that I extremely enjoyed that campaign. I hate that it took me so long to try it but I loved it and wish there were more like it. I can't recall the mission name that I ended in but I did make it to the Deliverance Mission 8 one. LOL I got my butt handed to me on that one and had a tactical loss but ended up winning a major victory in the campaign overall.

 

I'm really getting an itch to tackle scenario/campaign design myself. I've dabbled in it before but there's just so much stuff involved that I feel like a lone sheep amongst a pack of wolves. I know what I want to do but I'm not sure if I have the technical knowledge to do it (if that makes sense). Some of these designers (again I'll use JonS) do a REALLY nice job of presentation. Tactical maps, operational maps, briefings. KG Engel is a fine example. I lack any photoshop skills so presentation would be something I would want but would sorely lack the ability to do. And I'm sure the AI plans are pretty in depth but talk about triggers and all those things makes my brain hurt. On the flip side I think the fear of the unknown may be just an excuse on my part to just jump in and give it a row. I passed my FAA private pilots knowledge test with a 93 and THAT stuff was pretty intense to learn (Thinking of learning US airspace and using an E6B manual computer gives me a headache as many nights as I spent studying that stuff).

[Bulletpoint]

4 minutes ago, [MyIS] Buffpuff said:

I'm really getting an itch to tackle scenario/campaign design myself. I've dabbled in it before but there's just so much stuff involved that I feel like a lone sheep amongst a pack of wolves. I know what I want to do but I'm not sure if I have the technical knowledge to do it (if that makes sense). Some of these designers (again I'll use JonS) do a REALLY nice job of presentation. Tactical maps, operational maps, briefings. KG Engel is a fine example. I lack any photoshop skills so presentation would be something I would want but would sorely lack the ability to do. And I'm sure the AI plans are pretty in depth but talk about triggers and all those things makes my brain hurt. On the flip side I think the fear of the unknown may be just an excuse on my part to just jump in and give it a row. I passed my FAA private pilots knowledge test with a 93 and THAT stuff was pretty intense to learn (Thinking of learning US airspace and using an E6B manual computer gives me a headache as many nights as I spent studying that stuff).

Yes, just jump into it and muck about with the editor. Start small and simple, have fun. Nobody has to see the first map you make.

The basic editor is not so difficult actually, and while triggers are more advanced, they are basically just a fancy name for "area that troops can enter that will activate another unit's orders".

And you can make a lot of enjoyable scenarios without any orders or triggers at all. It's just something that is there for when/if you want to do something more advanced.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Bulletpoint

[[MyIS] Buffpuff]

2 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Yes, just jump into it and much about with the editor. Start small and simple, have fun. Nobody has to see the first map you make.

The basic editor is not so difficult actually, and while triggers are more advanced, they are basically just a fancy name for "area that troops can enter that will activate another unit's orders".

And you can make a lot of enjoyable scenarios without any orders or triggers at all. It's just something that is there for when/if you want to do something more advanced.

I might just do that. I'm not really into map making but thank goodness for QB maps (grin). Now if only Chris (HINT HINT!!!) would stream some videos on scenario/campaign editing all would be right in the world!!!

[A Canadian Cat]

Great have fun. Don't forget some titles include mater maps you can chop a section out of an use for a scenario.  Nothing wrong with working with QB maps - just reminding you if you had not thought of the master maps.

[A Canadian Cat]

36 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

I'm really impressed, but I have to ask if you did that before the machineguns were made more powerful?

Well it wasn't pretty.  No one was in good order C2 was shot.  It was a big mess.  I was after - I am pretty sure.  I did not play it when the campaign first came out it was a while after so I am pretty sure it was after the 2.0 upgrade.  I could not swear under oath though .

[JonS]

4 hours ago, [MyIS] Buffpuff said:

a REALLY nice job of presentation. Tactical maps, operational maps, briefings. KG Engel is a fine example. I lack any photoshop skills so presentation would be something I would want but would sorely lack the ability to do.

Thanks Buff, but I feel I should point out that my mad photoshop skills aren't all that mad. Actually, they totally sux0rz I usually get someone else to do my mission graphics for me. When that fails I tend to use crops of actual maps, or make something in MilSketch, or use photos instead of maps in some of the slots. But that's definitely my second option - I try and get someone who knows what they're doing to create the images for me.

... and the point of that confession ( )  is to note that you don't have to do it alone. Folk will help if you ask nice

 

[[MyIS] Buffpuff]

2 minutes ago, JonS said:

Thanks Buff, but I feel I should point out that my mad photoshop skills aren't all that mad. Actually, they totally sux0rz I usually get someone else to do my mission graphics for me. When that fails I tend to use crops of actual maps, or make something in MilSketch, or use photos instead of maps in some of the slots. But that's definitely my second option - I try and get someone who knows what they're doing to create the images for me.

... and the point of that confession ( )  is to note that you don't have to do it alone. Folk will help if you ask nice

 

Well what you lack in "mad" skillz in Photoshop you more than make up for enjoyable campaigns/scenarios.

[Combatintman]

You don't need Photoshop or Photoshop skills ... all of my graphics are screen grabs imported into Powerpoint where they are annotated and then resized in Paint. Here's the latest lot ...