user1000 Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I would like to offer some great ideas on a 2nd or alternative vehicle pack add-on for CM:BNSome German armor from 1940 that would have been there in France for the first 1 or 2 months (at least all of June 1944, maybe longer) Some of these were in Rommel's arsenal when he invaded France, so they had to have still been around for the allied invasion. 4 years later (not a long time at all) they probably had veteran crews, although they were not that powerful they must have been still there and used. You can look them up, there are others but here is my list. Pz Bef Wg IPanzer III EPanzer II APanzer IB dual MGPanzer IVCPanzer IVD15 cm sIG 33sdKfz 222 2cmPZ 38(t) Czech with the 37mm AT gun and 2 MG 37PZ 35(t) Czech 37mmPZjg I 4.7cm with the Czech 4.7/L43 gunsdKfz 251/2 mortar htStuG IIIAsdKfz 221 MGPanzerbüchse 38 and 39also more captured French tanks. I won't list them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Interesting list. But, I'm not sure why you say that they still have to be around four years later. Most (if not all) of the Panzer divisions that took part in the invasion of France and the Low Countries in 1940 were shipped East. What early AFV's that did remain in France tended to be allocated to training units, and wouldn't have had veteran crews. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user1000 Posted March 17, 2016 Author Share Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) I know a lot of this armor survived because of the quickness that France was taken. Also because a lot of what went to Russia, was already in Poland in 1939. Any more info on the amount of armor taken out of France, that was shipped to the Eastern Front? Seems as though the factories in Germany would just send more armor east and not west, instead of shipping all that was already in France all the way to the East from 1940 to mid 1944. Edited March 17, 2016 by user1000 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizou Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Veteran crews would surely be moved to newer / better vehicles? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Soon with the next CMFI module I think we will have suitable ground to do a France 1940 mod bash up. versus waiting til 2029..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I know a lot of this armor survived because of the quickness that France was taken. Also because a lot of what went to Russia, was already in Poland in 1939. Any more info on the amount of armor taken out of France, that was shipped to the Eastern Front? Seems as though the factories in Germany would just send more armor east and not west, instead of shipping all that was already in France all the way to the East from 1940 to mid 1944.I get the strong feeling that you are making a host of unwarranted assumptions there. Most of the vehicles you list would have been more valuable to Germany as scrap metal than as operational vehicles. Armor evolved very rapidly during the war, and only those that could be modified/upgraded to something viable on the 1944 battlefield were kept on hand. A few of the older ones were kept around as training vehicles but even their usefulness in that role was limited. The Heer would have wanted their crews to have familiarity with more up to date equipment. Finally, I suspect that unless you can turn up firm documentary evidence of operational use, their appearance in any Vehicle Pack is extremely unlikely.Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I don't wish to be rude, but your suggestion that there was already a lot of armour in "the East" in 1941, because of the invasion of Poland in 1939 is a bit hard to accept. The Wehrmacht didn't use Poland has some kind of massive car park whilst they went off to attack the West with brand new vehicles. There is plenty of evidence of AFVs being transported from front to front by both road and rail during the course of the war. Just because "a lot of this armour survived" in 1940, doesn't mean that it remained in France for four years. I think that a check of the Bundesarchiv will give a good idea of the kind of AFVs used by the various Panzer units in Normandy in 1944.Also, I can't speak for BFC. But, I suspect if there is to be a 2nd Vehicle Pack at some point in the future it would have to take into account suggestions from their stable of scenario designers. Something along the lines of... "I want to recreate this engagement" or "create this campaign, using these vehicles". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I've looked at possible vehicles for a second vehicle pack and while I can't answer with 100 % certainty for every vehicle on you list, I can say I found no evidence for most of them being in any operational fighting vehicle inventory in France in 1944. Many were converted into other vehicles (Marders, Wespe, Flak Pz 38 etc). or recovery tanks or, as has been mentioned, used for training.One possible German AFV present in Normandy we don't have yet there is the Brumbar. Also as you have mentioned there are additional captured French vehicles.I'll come up with other suggestions if people are interested. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user1000 Posted March 17, 2016 Author Share Posted March 17, 2016 I took out an armor book I had on the bookshelf to check Tanks of World War Two by Jean Restayn and it does mention many were used on Eastern front from my list. The furthest most of them made was to Moscow before they froze up or were destroyed on the way there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I took out an armor book I had on the bookshelf to check Tanks of World War Two by Jean Restayn and it does mention many were used on Eastern front from my list. The furthest most of them made was to Moscow before they froze up or were destroyed on the way there.This. Especially the Czech tanks, there wasn't a bounty of spare parts and they got rode hard in conditions they were poorly designed for. Most of the early war tanks were simply driven until they were broken/destroyed, or scrapped when the time came. Some might have survived in ones and twos in junkyards, or as the especially cast-off training tank that's main reason for existing is to give poorly performing recruits something to scrap rust off of. Some of the French tanks certainly remained in service, but even when German training tanks got sent to the front, they seemed to be chiefly Panzer IIIs vs anything truly dinosaur. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user1000 Posted March 17, 2016 Author Share Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) What about an appearance in Italy, any sent there? Edited March 17, 2016 by user1000 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) They're already in the game Edited March 19, 2016 by JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 space bar-space bar-back space-back space then ctrl-alt-# THEN enter "France1940"....... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user1000 Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 The only game where I can get my France 1940 groove on is Close Combat: Longest Day > Meuse Mod. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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