sage Posted November 1, 1999 Share Posted November 1, 1999 I'd be interested in seeing an option which would limit the amount of time that could be spent viewing AND giving orders in a turn. This would be hardcoded in to keep the tension level high for single and multiplayer games. I think it would be keeping with the spirit of FOW etc... Sage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted November 1, 1999 Share Posted November 1, 1999 Hiya Sage. This feature was mentioned on the board here a while back and *if* I recall correctly it was mentioned it should be in the final release Dont quote me on this though, hehe, Im just going from memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted November 1, 1999 Share Posted November 1, 1999 I've asked for this feature at least 2 times now. Last I remember Steve said they were still considering it. At the time he made no guarantee's as to whether it would be in the final game or not (that was about 6-8 weeks ago). Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted November 1, 1999 Share Posted November 1, 1999 See old thread from back in late April entitled "Simulataneous turns" for more info on the timer discussion. This is the original discussion on this as far as I know. There have been 1 or 2 others since then where I've brought the idea back up, but I can't find them right now. Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted November 1, 1999 Share Posted November 1, 1999 Good idea! I may be one of the last ones you would expect to see here... But add my voice of support for this as an option. It would do away with my 'worry' that my PBEM opponent has unlimited time to replay the turns for every kernal of information...time I do NOT have. ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeydz Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 But weren't you also in favor of Hagens assertion that we should get a status screen because it takes to much time to go thru and get all the information? Ahh I see ya working... You support the time limit, then that gives ya more ammo to demand a summary screen, because of lack of time to gather the needed info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted November 3, 1999 Author Share Posted November 3, 1999 Absolutely. Any tool that speeds up the game without affecting game play/sacraficing realism is valuable. I am in favor of an OOB that presents the same info that is already available. Why? Because I'm a busy guy, and can't devote half my life to a game. An OOB would reduce the tediousness of watching a turn many times, but put me on equal footing with someone who doesn't work 70 hours a week and who CAN watch a turn over and over and over again. The 3d view of the game is the UI. Right now it's good at some stuff and bad at others, like most UIs. An OOB would help remedy some of its defecies (i.e. being able to gather status and jump to your units). Hey -- not all of us are visual learners (i.e. good at translating visual feedback into data). Sage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 Mikeydz: I see the smiley but I can not help but be slightly insulted by your comment. But don't worry too much, I'll get over it. This reasoning never occurred to me. But the fact you were even thinking this way means that you have ENTIRELY missed my line of reasoning. I would rather that their be an overview screen so that I am not unduly handicapped by the fact that I can NOT spend 2 hours on each turn whereas PBEM opponent can. A time limit eliminates that problem quite well does it not? But the fact remains that an overall unit status screen for information ALREADY AVAILABLE on FRIENDLY units would still be great, but not any more or less so with a 'turn timer', IMO. The number one criticism I have seen (other than the graphics not being like "Half-life") has to do with the difficulty people are having keeping track of huge amount of information CM gives to the player each turn. You watch each previews/reviews as they comes out. I bet at least 3/4 mention this information overload in one way or another. This screen could help alleviate that problem somewhat, esp. for the non-grognard wargamers, the one's the game is supposedly targeting. ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard [This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 11-02-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangoYankee Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 sage has the correct reasoning and answer. TY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 We do indeed want to get timers in. It is a critical thing to have in there. However, if it comes down to delaying the game because of it, I think we will release it as a patch. But not to worry, it is a very high priority item. In the past I used to play against a guy that would take a half hour to move compared to my 5 minutes. I can say for sure that *I* want timers in with all my heart There will be different values. Scott, good suggestion about PBEM. We hadn't thought about your point, and figured timers for PBEM didn't matter as the main purpose is to keep the quicker players from falling asleap. But I see your point and agree with it. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Davie Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 Steve; as long as the timers are optional providing both players agree....otherwise, what is the point of playing if one person can unilaterally dictate the conditions of the game. Mind you, I generally agree with the point being made. I've played in a few online tournaments and subject to a gentleman's agreement used 15 minutes per turn, with the understanding that the game would take approximately 3 hours. However, if my opponent 'demanded' a time limit, I'd probably not play. I'm playing a few PBEM games of CM at the moment and the most I would ever do is ask if my opponents could play a bit faster. Considering the games have just started, I'd personally think it a bit rude. Heck, I'm involved in a game of Warlords 3 PBEM that's over a year old! Voluntary reason is the key. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 I will assume PBEM or Multi-play tournaments will eventually take place making timers essential. I dislike pointing out a stumbling block for timers. People with faster systems will be able to scroll/zoom/pan/rewind/play faster for the same number of real-time minutes. Ouchh! Richard Kalajian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Jones Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 Simple fix (idea not programming) for the faster system thing KT. Allow a set amount of movie playback time. Say 5 minutes, this means you can watch the movie through 5 times or you can watch it once but keep hitting the forward and back buttons until the movie has been viewed for for 5 minutes. Time would also count off if a unit was clicked on after the pause button was hit(probably best to just have the playback start agin when that happens). Second component is turn time. Say 10 minutes, any movie time not used could be added to turn time. This would run in real time once the movie viewing stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darstand Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 I don't understand the need to play a turn 10 times. I generally play a turn twice once from each flank. Every once in a while I might actually play it 3 times. I have played 5 games I have 3 Total Victories 1 minor victory and one draw. Does anyone actually play a turn ten times? ------------------ "Armchair Generals never lose any men"-Darstand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 Unfortunately, the enforced time limit will not work for PBEM games without some really clever protocols. The basic problem: player Foo may make n copies of the turn file ==> player Foo may spend n x limit minutes planning his moves. The problem could be partly circuvented if CM assigned and stored an identifier for each ongoing game, but then you would have to play the whole game with same installation. -Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 Harold, That won't fix it either. People may hit play for 2 seconds and then pause, then scroll all over the screen and click on each and every friendly unit and click on each and every enemy unit. They would look for every single tiny little detail, a head moving backwards. I still can't imagine why. But they could stretch that five forward minutes into hours. Richard Kalajian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 I love the whole idea of a timer (though I imagine it would be difficult to implement in single play.) The time crunch (read: Turning inside your opponent's decision circle) is definately a main factor in battlefield success. it would diefinately seperate the wheat from the chaff. Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Jones Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 KT, I think I worded the pause function badly. The timer (and or the movie) would start to run as soon as a unit was clicked on. This would allow you to pause the action while you answered the door or something, but would not allow you to use the pause key to get around the time limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted November 4, 1999 Share Posted November 4, 1999 Harold, Lets say for example, the timer limited playback to five forward minutes (= playing through one turn five times forward). Someone could still hit pause every second and then scroll around, while paused, looking into each and every detail. Using the five minute forward-only playback timer could allow a player to stretch that into hours. Yikes. Hopefully I have described the problem clearly. If not just drop me a note, a post or an e-mail. And / Or call me a big-fat dumb hillbilly backwards village-livin brain-dead ice-cream eatin moron. Or whatever. Richard Kalajian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted November 4, 1999 Share Posted November 4, 1999 Timers are a good idea for people who agree to use them, either as a handicapping device, or simply to add some additional friction/confusion to the mix. As a "no-cheating" device, not so good. There are people who will try to get around them, and who will probably succeed. These are people who will play a turn 800 times to get a 1% advantage. Comments: a) the marginal advantage will be useless in most cases in a few cases someone will win a skirmish because he micromanaged an extra 2 SMG in a squad 10m closer c) so what? If it gets that aggravating (and it can), stop playing with them. Easy. I just don't play people like this. I dumped one PBEM opponent for constantly rigging the games so he would win. I don't mind losing, but don't like it to be obligatory. By game six it became clear (seems he kept little having problems with the OOB... like sticking to it). Life's too short to make oneself stressed dealing with this kind of person. Easier to find people you like to PBEM with - I think this board will squillions of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Jones Posted November 4, 1999 Share Posted November 4, 1999 KT the timer I am speaking of has nothing to do with the movie time. The program times the amount of time the animation is being played. A refinement I thought about for pause is that when the pause button is hit then the current unit is de-selected. As I said initially, the idea is reletively simple in concept but will be a bear to code. I'm pretty sure that someone who really wants to, can find a way around almost anything we propose here. Ultimately it comes down to trusting the guy on the other side to play an honest game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted November 4, 1999 Share Posted November 4, 1999 Harold, Alas, through the heavy fog emerges Richard. A Halogen Light Bulb turns on in his little brain. He catches on. Great idea Harold. Richard Kalajian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted November 4, 1999 Share Posted November 4, 1999 That's a small bulb you have there... (kidding of course, and you know it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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