Jump to content

Russian Attack Helicopter Tactics & Related Matters


Recommended Posts

On the last page of my OP, Codename Duchess asked "Why couldn't an ATGM be used against a helicopter?" Short answer. Not only can it, but for some weapons, it's explicitly part of their capabilities. Krizantema is listed as being able to engage low flying helicopters, as can Refleks. The Ukrainians have TLGM weapons with similar, if not better, capabilities. But I believe the statement about helicopters on the UKR site understates capability vs them. As long as accurate guidance can be maintained in the face of whatever the helo's doing, hitting a moving helicopter should be doable, too. Of course, if you happen to land in front of a Kornet-E team waiting for you to so so, this may well happen.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d88_1410189533

Here is an uncredited, but undoubtedly from Russian source, very good article on modern Russian attack helicopters. Not only is it technically meaty, but it has some great large format color pics, too.

Regards,

John Kettler

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Luka,

You're welcome. What a great link! The TOW air-to-air kill accounts were sure news to me, but make perfectly good sense. I have some vague recollection of reading about Syrian helos vs the IDF, but I'm not about to blindly accept the tank kill claims asserted vs it. Meanwhile, here's another video of a HIND in the weeds. This one is Ukrainian, apparently near Luhansk. Mi-24 vs MANPADS. Doesn't end well. The very definition of things going pear shaped.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=159_1433424437

Also, while looking for Syrian Mi-24s vs IDF, I found this. Russian Mi-24s attacking in Syria. Sadly, the visual conditions and camera quality aren't good.

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited by John Kettler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow they are flying seriously low:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCuLQ_sc-C4#t=30sec 

 

I've seen that Ukrainian video before, I think its quite old. They must have shat themselves in that moment when they start falling I don't envy them. What's interesting in that video is that even though the poster says there were no survivors of the incident if you keep watching after its crashed you'll see the camera move a bit and hear what sound like gunshots. perhaps one of the crew getting away or rebels shooting to ensure no survivors?

Edit: Could also just be noises from the wreckage, i have a vivid imagination :) 

Edited by Luka
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Video from dashcam of UKR Mi-24P, which was shot down at 20th August 2014 during two pairs of Mi-24 attacked the hill near Georgiivka, which was taken by two companies of 76th division of Russian VDV. Several MANPADs were launched (though also Pantsyr version exists), one of them hit this chopper on low altitude... Both crewmen got killed immediately...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Also, while looking for Syrian Mi-24s vs IDF, I found this. Russian Mi-24s attacking in Syria. Sadly, the visual conditions and camera quality aren't good.

Regards,

John Kettler

John this looks like the same two choppers in the other video you posted a while back, just from a different location.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John this looks like the same two choppers in the other video you posted a while back, just from a different location.

I dont know, i had that thought too but then looked a few more times and started to doubt it. I cant see any similar landmarks and these guys seem to be in a less urbanised area. Just my two cents

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont know, i had that thought too but then looked a few more times and started to doubt it. I cant see any similar landmarks and these guys seem to be in a less urbanised area. Just my two cents

Look again at the silhouettes of what could be water towers or Minarets or both on the horizon. They are identical in the two videos, as are the flight paths of the two aircraft. The helicopters are just filmed from different vantage points.. 

Edited by Nidan1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Was on one of my very rare visits to VIDMAX when in the War section I came across some footage of a pair of Russian Mi-35s letting rip rocket fire from such low altitude it freaked out the people in the video who were under it. Clearly, they wren't accustomed to helicopters operating so low (see, for example, the way the Syrians operate their attack helos from way up in the sky), let alone firing. Speaking of rockets, someone was under what looked like an outbound Smerch strike with a HD video camera, so close you could hear each rocket launched and watch them in staggered succession, still under thrust and looking something like meteors with the tape reversed, hurtling overhead and ripping up the sky as they passed. Later, there's long distance footage showing what it looked like on the other end. Bad juju.There's also some Russian strike footage (much better image quality than we've typically seen) against some sort of an ISIS oil facility. I wasn't impressed. Of, say, 12 oil tanks (if oil tanks were what they engaged) available to be hit, only two were hit.

Since I'm not quite sure where to get into other things I saw, I'll also say there is some excellent TOW firing footage in Syria there, against a variety of targets in both MOUT and more open areas, as well as one claimed to be vs the Russian CSAR helo which came to get the Su-24M crew downed over Turkey.  You're going to want to see this TOW material. Raytheon execs must be thrilled, for the anti-Assad vids show a weapon easily brought in and out of action, often with only one man doing the whole task from weapon assembly through acquiring, firing, target destruction, removal of expended missile tube and, oh, yes, jubilation.  TOW is markedly faster to the target, and considerably more stable in flight, than just about every ATGM in use there except for the Kornet-E. From what I can tell, TOW's arrival is a big boost to the anti-Assad cause.

There is some very good footage of sniping being conducted by anti-Assad forces, and Assad's guys really need to work on hiding better (starting with hiding) and not being backlit. I particularly noted the use of some sort of AMR, evidenced by a big impact splash on a concrete beam above the target, more basso firing sound and the telltale mechanical noises of a heavy bolt action being worked and of a substantial (kind of thunked) cartridge case hitting the ground. No 7.62 mm or .308 sniper sounds like this one did.

There's much more than this, but if you have any interest in the above matters, I believe you'd find the visit worth your time.

Regards,

John Kettler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Problem is that the SAA is fighting enemies from all terrorist organizations which are being backed by other countries. FSA has a huge stock of TOW missiles, I don't know how they got it but they have it. And with that said, They don't know what weapons to expect, RuAF has decreased the amount of ATGMs being fired from reports. T-90s are on scene, And if I'm not wrong have already been used in operations in Aleppo, Those tanks will boost ground capability. The TOS-1s are also good for taking out suspected enemy ambush positions. Say that a rebel group used the TOW-2 against SAA defensive positions, After their position is identified you can send alot of KGs of thermobaric explosives to the positions. These are a few tactics that are being used. 

About the oil tank footage, Would be great if you could maybe send a link? What I've been noticing is the RuAF is striking important equipment on the facilities instead of destroying all the oil. (Our bro president Assad will need it maybe :) )  The RuAF has a priority on being cost effective in Syria, They use the older of the FAB bombs in some missions. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Was over on FoxtrotAlpha just now where I found a long piece on Russian helicopter tactics. It's got some good stuff, including what I believe to be extended versions of some of the Syrian footage and two vids we've not seen before.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/video-shows-russian-mi-24-hind-attack-helicopters-in-in-1735768242

Also, Russia continues to use iron bombs from its helicopters. Indeed, dumb bombs seem to be Russia's munition of choice in Syria for fixed and rotary wing platforms.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/easy-answer-option-3-and-the-someone-is-obama-the-re-1744317314?utm_source=taboola

Regards,

John Kettler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...