Skinning Cats

[A Canadian Cat]

OK will do.  I'll keep that in mind and we will see if some one beats me to it.

[Bud Backer]

So this game was delayed for a while - my friend had stuff come up, then I did. But it's on now and it's been...interesting.

My deployment is below. I'm firing smoke across the line between myself and my opponent. You can see, if you look closely, my unit movement orders. My tanks all are remaining behind the ridge and not moving until I have some idea where his tanks are and be able to position mine to hit them when he doesn't expect it.

[Bud Backer]

After three minutes, my infantry has moved forward to preliminary positions. I will be splitting them up so that I have scouts spread out with core fire teams ready in case he tries to cross the river. I expect he won't really push things. He likes me to get impatient and do something reckless.

I sent two jeeps, each with sniper and PIAT team, to the woods on either end of my side if the river to observe and ambush any armour or scouts he might send. I doubt he will.

It didn't take long to observe two Panthers near the objectives. As I have expected, he's not going to charge across and use his heavy armour to take me on; he's going to see if I make a mistake. The big thing here is going to be knowing where those tanks are at all times. I also doubt he limited himself to only two.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Bud_B

[Bud Backer]

With his Panthers sitting on each objective, I decided to move up a Firefly and a Sherman forward while I still have cover from the smokescreen I laid across the middle of the map. They will cross over the ridge in the east, and descend behind a small copse of trees to watch and wait for him to advance, or to move across his own lines into my sights. I hope.

It's nail biting tense here at my end as I watch those two precious tanks advance. The firefly makes it comfortably to the trees and faces to toward the German lines. The Sherman, however, is slightly higher on the slope and his Panther on the western objective destroys it moments after this screenshot.

He is also clearly concerned about infantry in the woods on my side of the river, and a fairly substantial artillery barrage begins to drop on the woods, killing several infantry. My PIAT teams remain largely intact, but I lose several half squads and recon teams.

My second firefly is moved east to be able to backup the first one, if the opportunity presents itself.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Bud_B

[Bud Backer]

I received a text message while he was taking his turn: "I didn't know Fireflies could take out a Panther from the front!"

Seeing as he was watching the replay before I saw it, I was pretty excited.

You can see the penetration of his mantlet above. The tank was destroyed by this shot. Beyond that, you can see on west end the ridge line at his end of the map there is an ATG. He has another at the east end but it faded from view. The west ATG hit and penetrated my Firefly front hull, which made me almost panic, but in the end, killed a crewman and nothing else. The crew also panics and all I could do was order the nearby mortar, positioned for this purpose, to fire smoke in front of the tank to give it cover while it withdraws under AI control. Scary!!

The damaged Firefly withdraws and stops AT THE CREST of the ridge! I'm going crazy thinking the thing is toast as I can get LOS to the position where the ATG is even though I can't make it out any more other than as a contact. I order full reverse to behind my ridge and it makes it unscathed. The crew is nervous, but I still have an intact tank. *phew*

The other Firefly, which I ordered several minutes ago to move to the east end of the map, now is ready to s-l-o-w-l-y move forward and be ready to snipe his Panthers. Yes, Panthers, with an S...he has two left. One must have been hidden from my view by my own smoke.

I've orderd arty to target his infantry that is on his side of the map between the objectives, likely trying to observe me just like I'm onserving him., and my second battery to target his Panther hideout. It will be a while before it lands on the tanks but I want to be waiting for his tanks to flee and hopefully expose themselves to both fireflies...

Edited June 14, 2015 by Bud_B

[Bud Backer]

With the damaged Firefly back in my control, I order it to join a Sherman near the middle of the ridgeline. From there, I can see some withdrawal routes the Panthers might take and I want to be ready for him. I've noticed he never unbuttons, and that suits me, it gives me a spotting advantage. You can see the Firefly moving west and about to turn and go slowly to the ridge next to the Sherman.

My two jeeps, empty and unused after delivering my PIAT and sniper teams, are about to engage in a distraction mission. They will run up the map toward my opponent, switch direction and disappear. I hope he will see the movement and get nervous and make a mistake. Can't hurt. Unless you drive the jeep, that is. I call this recon by drive, as there is no fire involved.

[womble]

Favourable exchange rate so far! Keep up the good work

[Bud Backer]

My jeep scramble ended with one back safely (though a bit shot up) and another destroyed. My opponent decided to move a Panther from cover and head west. My own tanks would catch glimpses but not have time to engage. I pull them back after sniping at infantry that they can see - my logic is if a tank can see an infantry unit, it's unlikely the infantry is no spotting my tank and my whole strategy is based on me knowing where he is but him not knowing where I am.

The spotting rounds should end and a major barrage land in the woods where I've been seeing his men occasionally observing mine. A second barrage should land right in his stationary Panther in the small village in the east in another few minutes.

I'm happy he is separating his two big cats. This will make it easier for me to concentrate two fireflies on one at a time and hopefully get rid of those pesky things.

As the game passed mid point, my assessment that he would want to sit on his side of the river with his heavy armour proved correct. He's not aggressive enough considering what he has at his disposal. I am actually more worried about his ATGs on the far ridge and the fact I can't seem them than his Panthers. It's becoming easy to avoid them as he is afraid to lose them and I don't want to lose anything to a lucky ATG shot. They don't cover my positions well but see, to have the occasional spot where they can hit me and it's hard to guess exactly where that may be.

The Panther in the village does have a good view of some of my side of the map, however. I've indicated it with a pair of pink lines. It means using different approaches to get to him.

I'm actually wondering if I should concentrate all four of my tanks and creep down the Eastern edge and cross the river and hit him when he has that one tank there alone...

Edited June 16, 2015 by Bud_B

[Bud Backer]

Crazy life stuff got in the way so this game was postponed on and off.

So my opponent moved his western Panther from the middle of the map to the woods at the western edge on his side of the river.



This splitting of his armour was what I'd been waiting for for some time. I anticipated this and had artillery start landing on that Panther, in the hope it would either make him pull it back or blind it with dust. All my Shermans, two fireflies and two regulars, were concentrated in the middle of the map behind my ridgeline.

I ordered all four to move to positions where I could target his Eastern Panther in the village. They would advance line abreast, with three firing on that tank, while the western most would lob smoke at his western Panther, and all my infantry with line of sight would pepper it with ballets to make it button and reduce the chances it could fire on my exposed tanks on the ridge.

 

 

Edit: pic above is incorrect, should say all 4 not 5 Shermans crest at same time. The people responsible for making my images have been sacked. 

Edited July 14, 2015 by Bud_B

[Bud Backer]

The tactic was partly successful.

The western Panther never fired a shot while my Shermans crested the ridge, fired a series of volleys while PAUSED, then pulled back behind the ridge once more.

One of my fireflies took a penetrating hit but nothing of great import was damaged, while two penetrating hits were made on the eastern Panther. It fled, positioning so that it would be even more isolated from support by its co-hort to the west.

We did not complete the game, but it did convince me that the big cats were something that could be managed, albeit with great care.

Constant recon by split infantry teams gave me the exact locations of my opponents tanks at any time. Not being able to surprise me made a huge difference. The arty I bought was a mixed bag. Slow to respond but crucial for the initial smoke I needed to get my infantry over the ridge and into the woods.

It was to be honest a bit of a goofy battle, but I certainly gave my opponent pause when he started losing those precious tanks.

[womble]

We did not complete the game, but it did convince me that the big cats were something that could be managed, albeit with great care.

Constant recon by split infantry teams gave me the exact locations of my opponents tanks at any time. Not being able to surprise me made a huge difference. The arty I bought was a mixed bag. Slow to respond but crucial for the initial smoke I needed to get my infantry over the ridge and into the woods.

It was to be honest a bit of a goofy battle, but I certainly gave my opponent pause when he started losing those precious tanks.

 

Shame you didn't complete it, but it certainly sounds like some points were made and I think you did pretty well in adverse circumstances. You proved that good combined arms tactics can nullify a technical advantage, as you had initially contended. Well done.

[A Canadian Cat]

The tactic was partly successful.

 

You came out ahead - that is certainly success.  Infantry keeping eyes on, MGs keeping them buttoned.  Three or four vs one - excellent.  Shame you never got to find out how much damage you did to that Panther.

[womble]

 Shame you never got to find out how much damage you did to that Panther.

Would your opponent divulge that, Bud?

[Bud Backer]

Shame you didn't complete it, but it certainly sounds like some points were made and I think you did pretty well in adverse circumstances. You proved that good combined arms tactics can nullify a technical advantage, as you had initially contended. Well done.

 

I think I see Pete Wenman's commentary that the battle is in some respects not a good reflection of what happened, but at least as a test of skill where other things are equal (meeting engagement), it taught me some valuable lessons that have nothing to do with fighting the Big Cats:  using lots of disperse reconnaissance teams, local fire superiority, shoot and scoot tactics. 

 

 

You came out ahead - that is certainly success.  Infantry keeping eyes on, MGs keeping them buttoned.  Three or four vs one - excellent.  Shame you never got to find out how much damage you did to that Panther.

 

Well, I did, actually....

 

Would your opponent divulge that, Bud?

 

 

1 crew dead, Coax MG kaput, optics kaput, track damage. 

 

Not as well as I'd hoped, but had I moved even further east and therefore out of LOS of the western Panther, I don't have a lot of worry that he would be short one more tank, and then it would be 4 against his remaining one. 

 

I was concerned about my infantry losses, but I knew since he'd purchased 3 ATGs, 3 Panthers, and off-map artillery, his infantry presence was limited and with 4 surviving tanks that could easily dominate the victory locations while in cover from the ATGs, it would be a foregone conclusion I'd win. 

 

He attached a lot of importance to those ATGs, and one did kill a sherman early on, but once I knew where they were it wasn't hard to stay out of their reach. 

 

What I did find surreal was that the entire battle was really a game of me focusing all my attention on his three, then two tanks. He wasn't advancing across the river, clearly surprised when he lost his first tank, and from there on, it was me constantly repositioning behind my ridgeline for a sudden lunge. His ATGs, artillery, infantry, were simply not something I gave much consideration, and it felt weird to do that. But I don't think that was a mistake, in retrospect. 

Edited July 14, 2015 by Bud_B

[womble]

What I did find surreal was that the entire battle was really a game of me focusing all my attention on his three, then two tanks. He wasn't advancing across the river, clearly surprised when he lost his first tank, and from there on, it was me constantly repositioning behind my ridgeline for a sudden lunge. His ATGs, artillery, infantry, were simply not something I gave much consideration, and it felt weird to do that. But I don't think that was a mistake, in retrospect. 

 

Finding weaknesses and neutralising strengths is what tactics are all about. The Panthers were his main threat: mobile and potent. Your Shermans were key to defeating his infantry, so you needed to deal with the Panthers first. As is so often the way, the winner of the armour fight will take the laurels. Your approach took away his Panthers' supporting elements and focusing on destroying them was absolutely the right thing to do.

[Bud Backer]

Thanks, Womble. I always appreciate your comments.

Before I come across as smug, I need to point out some concerns I had in the game as well:

-even with TRPs the best times I could get for off map artillery was 6 minutes. It's fortunate I bought two batteries of 25lbrs because even with them I felt I had insufficient flexibility. I needed them on the front line and never was able to batter his ATGs as I intended to.

-my manpower was not as low as he claimed but I certainly was losing a lot of men to his own arty. With them scattered all about in the woods it was not hard for him to drop some shells and kill someone.

-time was running out. For me to destroy the eastern Panther would take at least 4-6 min, and then I'd have to deal with the last one. I doubt I'd have finished that, let alone had time to clear the objectives of his (albeit limited) infantry. Had time been 45 min or an hour, I do not think I would fail to destroy him completely.

So had this run to conclusion, the best I'd have managed would still be a draw. Which means I'm not winning. c3k would not be proud of me LOL

Edited July 15, 2015 by Bud_B

[delliejonut]

You should check out the nahverteidigungswaffe thread Bud. Its me going up against an immobilized Panther with 2 sherman 75s and a full platoon of infantry. It doesn't go very well for me.

[Bud Backer]

You should check out the nahverteidigungswaffe thread Bud. Its me going up against an immobilized Panther with 2 sherman 75s and a full platoon of infantry. It doesn't go very well for me.

Thanks, Delliejonut. Posted in your thread!