Alexey K Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Accoring to wiki 14.5x114 has almost twice muzzle energy of 12.7 BMG round. But in game M2 HMGs of Strykers and Armoured Knights seem to have significantly more impact than 14.5 KPVT of BTR-70 and BRDM-2. At least BMP-2 is quite resilent to incoming KPVT rounds but is quickly damaged by M2. I'am requesting explanation of this fact 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Accoring to wiki 14.5x114 has almost twice muzzle energy of 12.7 BMG round. But in game M2 HMGs of Strykers and Armoured Knights seem to have significantly more impact than 14.5 KPVT of BTR-70 and BRDM-2. At least BMP-2 is quite resilent to incoming KPVT rounds but is quickly damaged by M2. I'am requesting explanation of this fact SLAP rounds for the .50 cal are nasty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexey K Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 SLAP rounds for the .50 cal are nasty. Are there any figures of armour penetration for .50 SLAP and 14.5 mm AP? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Mk211 round is pretty spiffy. I don't know what the 14.5 has. (But if they're sale, it'd be nice to have one around the house.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexey K Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) What exact type of round is modelled for KPVT in CMBS? Edited April 8, 2015 by Alexey K 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexey K Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Mk211 round is pretty spiffy. I don't know what the 14.5 has. (But if they're sale, it'd be nice to have one around the house.) Hmm. I've found that Mk.211 armour penetration is 16 mm while 14.5mm B-32 round is capable of defeating 30 mm of armour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerdwing Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 At their size, I doubt these rounds are going to cause much spalling. In the event that they both penetrate, its just a matter of hitting important components isnt it? 12.7mm and 14.5mm would both overmatch a BMP's side armor. Its just a matter of making the little holes over something thats important inside, rather than intert. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Differing specs... SLAP and SLAP-T (tracer) shows 34mm at 500 yds. and 23mm at 1,200 yds. Mk211 claims 50mm (Janes Defence Review). No range that I could find. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 At their size, I doubt these rounds are going to cause much spalling. In the event that they both penetrate, its just a matter of hitting important components isnt it? 12.7mm and 14.5mm would both overmatch a BMP's side armor. Its just a matter of making the little holes over something thats important inside, rather than intert. The Mk211 has explosive filler. (That's a simplification...) It is designed to produce high velocity fragments after/during penetration. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) It's not clear to me what round US .50 cal. machine guns are using. It is an incendiary round of some sort, which would rule out SLAP. That would mean Mk211, M8 or M20 AP-I. I have read that Mk211 is typically only used in sniper rifles. Edited April 9, 2015 by Vanir Ausf B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerdwing Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Same, I figured it was the anti-material rifle's specialty ammo rather than something fired off in huge belts 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) Let me restate that. I know for a fact that in the version of the game you are using -- v1.01 -- all US .50 cal weaponry is using Mk211. That has been changed for the next patch so that Mk211 is only used in sniper rifles. What I don't know is what ammunition the .50 cal machine guns were changed too. It should probably be M8 or M20. I don't know what ammunition the 14.5mm is using but I am guessing B-32 AP-I. Edited April 9, 2015 by Vanir Ausf B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Alexey K, TRADOC's World Equipment Guide lists SLAP penetration at 19 mm (perpendicular strike vs RHA) at 1500 meters. The Raufoss MK 211, for the same parameters, can pierce a staggering 50 mm, better than the WW II Pak-38 on down. Astoundingly, the M107 AMR can fire this incredibly potent round. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I just tested this in the --next-- patch version of the game, and rest assured the 14.5mm will be out-penetrating the Ma Deuce. It looks like even the Russian 12.7mm slightly out-penetrates its US counterpart, although the US round is more damaging due to being incendiary while the Russian round is vanilla AP. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Vanir Ausf B, The standard 14.5 mm rounds are API, API-T, HEI and HEI-T, presumably in a mixed load. There is also an AP (special) with a tungsten carbide core. The 12.7 should be out penetrating the 0.5 BMG because the cartridge is more potent. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 John, I am already familiar with the page you linked to but thanks anyways (and BTW you mislabeled it as 14.5mm in your post). As for 12.7 x 108mm being "more potent" than .50 BMG, they are within spitting distance of each other and it mostly boils down to the individual round. The most common Russian 12.7mm machine gun round is, AFAIK, the B-32 AP-I that produces about 16,240 joules at the muzzle, compared to the US M8 AP-I round @ 15,900. That's only a 2% difference which translates to maybe 1mm of extra RHA penetration. BTW, I have already asked BFC to double check the Russian 12.7mm ammo type in-game to make sure it's not supposed to be AP-I. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexey K Posted April 9, 2015 Author Share Posted April 9, 2015 So, I maintain my questions: what exact models of .50 BMG and 14.5x114 are present in game as for 1.01 patch? So far I've seen that 0.5 BMG is Mk211 but it will be changed for the next patch. BTW, what is standard M2 HMG round in US Army? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Vanir Ausf B, It would appear I got tangled up. The initial question had to do with the 14.5 mm KPVT vs 0.5" BMG. I responded to that, but by then, evidently, we'd moved on to the 12.7 mm Dushka vs Ma Deuce. That particular page has both Russian ammo types, but I neglected to so state. Alexey K, The standard round is Ball, M2. Ball is the standard round, generally speaking, for small arms. The term is a carryover from the days of the smoothbore musket when projectiles were spherical. Someone else can provide the numbers, but I believe M2 is mixed at a 7:1 ratio with Tracer, M1. I can't speak to what may've been done in, in terms of ammo types and mixes, in Iraq and Afghanistan to deal with the combat environments there. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) As of latest build: Belted .50 cal should be M8/M20 AP-I. Russian 12.7mm is B-32 in v1.01, but is missing incendiary characteristic. It has been corrected to AP-I. M107 will continue to use Mk.211. 14.5mm should be B-32 API. Edited April 10, 2015 by akd 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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