CoolColJ Posted September 13, 1999 Share Posted September 13, 1999 I haven't bothered to read the AAR as of turn 20 onwards, I dunno I'm getting bored with them , I just look at the pics.... I need the see the stuff moving! Hey BTS release a replay only engine of CM ! CCJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgra Posted September 13, 1999 Share Posted September 13, 1999 I can understand what you mean. However, I still find the swing of battle fascinating (presume this is due to a well constructed scenario). What I am enjoying now is the change emotions going on with both players. I realise both Martin and Fionn are accomplished writers but you can tell they've made attachments to their forces. This is another reason why I wouldn't mind seeing the same soldier names cropping up from time to time with promotions and decorations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted September 13, 1999 Share Posted September 13, 1999 I still find them intriguing. FWIW, I don't fuss so much over the piccies - sometimes I don't even wait for them to download. Interesting how people's interests vary. Thought Fionn and Moon might like to know they still have fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted September 13, 1999 Share Posted September 13, 1999 I'm enjoying the swing of momentum, back and forth. IMHO, this was missing in CC3 and SP; once one side got an advantage, it was pretty much over. In the test battle, there have been more than a couple of momentum swings. First Fionn with his quick-kill on the Shermans, then Martin with the arty, then etc etc. I'm DYING for the next couple of turns to see whether Fionn's arty will be enough to get him into the village in one piece. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted September 13, 1999 Share Posted September 13, 1999 Thanks guys! Good to know somebody is reading them Takes the better half of a day to do all this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted September 13, 1999 Share Posted September 13, 1999 Dont worry Moon, I think most are still reading them. I know I am! Its been a great way to get the feel of the game, and has been a very interesting read. I think reading them is about as close as you can get without playing the thing. It amazes me that considering its still in Alpha, you guys have had such little problems, and everything seems to be running well. Looking forward to the next one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnma Posted September 13, 1999 Share Posted September 13, 1999 I think the AARs are fascinating-- they show, in slow motion, the ebb and flow of a battle (remember how Wellington said that it was as difficult to tell the story of a battle as that of a ball)-- 24 minutes of hard slugging. I find the pictures interesting, but the text really gives them meaning. But most important is that we, the readers, get an insight into intentions as the battle is unfolding, and into perceptions-- each side's hopes, misunderstandings, brilliant guesses-- because we see both sides of the battle, and hence have some sort of reality against which to confront the two players' views Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darstand Posted September 13, 1999 Share Posted September 13, 1999 I totally enjoy every AAR. I wish to extend my appreciation to Fionn & Martain for doing them. This demostration makes me want the game even more. Hurry up Charles and Steve I WANT THAT DEMO/GAME NOW!!!!!!!!! ------------------ "Armchair Generals never lose any men"-Darstand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hoerter Posted September 13, 1999 Share Posted September 13, 1999 Hi, I'm thoroughly enjoying reading the AAR's as well. A passable substitute for not having the game/beta demo (of course I'd rather have something in my hands ). I'm of the reading over viewing varity as well. Thanks for your effort Fionn and Martin. Justin Hoerter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 13, 1999 Share Posted September 13, 1999 I'm still enjoying reading the AARs. However, I do admit that they were more exciting at first. Still, keep them coming, they're still one of the things I look forward to the most every day even if they're not as exciting as the first few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted September 13, 1999 Share Posted September 13, 1999 Well, the first AARs had the benefit of novelty and showing you new screenshots etc. Trust me, once the AARs finish being posted and there's a lapse between them finishing and a beta demo or whatever then you will start appreciating them more. There's a wealth of game-related info in them. People who don't read them are missing out IMO. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted September 13, 1999 Share Posted September 13, 1999 I'd like to throw some appreciation at these guys too, you guys Martin, Fionn have taken an awful lot of time to do these. Although you being compensated by being able to have input into what is expected to be the game of games for us wargamers, thats still quite a job you too are doing. I hope the other jobs you have, the ones that give you money for working, dont mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted September 13, 1999 Share Posted September 13, 1999 Jobs? OHMYGOD... I bet my boss is wondering where I have been for two weeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted September 13, 1999 Author Share Posted September 13, 1999 Well at the moment I just haven't the tme to spend a hour reading stuff, I've lost my patience Like they say a picture is worth a thousand words, a moving picture is worth a whole lot more...ok granted it doesn't 100% apply to CM....but I've been watching Saving Private Ryan over and over, and want to experience the movement aspect of the AAR , this movie shows so well. Somebody send me a Video tape of the whole battle! CCJ [This message has been edited by CoolColJ (edited 09-13-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risc Posted September 13, 1999 Share Posted September 13, 1999 AARs are great, Fionn & Martin. I nejoy reading them, keep up the good work...I want to see the end of the battle one day !. After you guys are finished put them all together as an online-book so I can read it all at once... Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted September 13, 1999 Share Posted September 13, 1999 Just do what I did. I printed them out. The damn thing is huge - over 200 pages. I only printed the battle from one side, though. On hig quality print setting, even the small pictures look decent. And now that Fionn is posting higher quality pics, the full screen shots look incredible. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted September 14, 1999 Share Posted September 14, 1999 I also have very much enjoyed reading the AARs (and also AARs in general I might add) though they are a somewhat vicarious way to enjoy a game. I addition to letting you see CM in action and learn a few pointers the easy way (through others' mistakes ) they give an insight into how others might approach a problem differently to yourself. But most importantly of all they let you see how Martin and Fionn think through the game and you might come up against them someday. Which gives you something of an advantage hehe. Like when you play Fionn you just know that if he is defending he will attempt a counterattack in the middle of your preparatory barrage and when you play Martin he will defend each position to the end- no retreat! What was that- mean? Whaddaya mean, mean? Just because I was cackling with glee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted September 14, 1999 Share Posted September 14, 1999 Regarding AAR's. Initially I focused on the pictures during the first 7 turns. Now I focus on every word of every sentence. This will save me days of learning the strategies of actual gameplay. Fionn and Martin you guys are a god send. I would have spent months bringing my level of play up to yours (actually I will never reach that level). I know when it comes time to actually commanding my troops in CM mistakes (especially hesitation, impatience and lack of an organized plan) will be plentiful. However, I have learned so much in 24 turns, that by the time turn 60 roles around I will be much more confident with my CM skills. I cannot describe how pleased I am with what you guyz are doing. I have learned so much about strategies and CM that my head is buzzing with excitement and my heart is pumping beer or something along those lines. Also, I appreciate how you relate CM to Legacy Turn-Based Hex-Limited I-Go U-Go games like Peoples, PG2 and West Front. Just prior to your posting of turn 1, I was on turn 23 of 85 for a Legacy war game that took about 40 hours up to that point commanding countless hundreds of pieces, kills were in the hundreds (counters representing 1-6 units) and countless paratroopers, reinforcements and shore landings were pouring in every turn. I was immersed. Or so I thought I was. then Fion and Martin come along. After reading the first couple turns, I have abandoned all Legacy war-games forever. It is absolutely incredible how much more CM has to offer than the older Legacy war systems. Thanks again Fionn & Martin for pointing out the differences between CM and Legacy War-Games (LWG) as you detail the action within CM. And thanks BTS for making it all possible. TY, Richard Kalajian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 14, 1999 Share Posted September 14, 1999 Referring way back to Fionn's comment immediately following my last one. I hope there isn't too much of a delay between the finish of this game and the demo release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixman Posted September 14, 1999 Share Posted September 14, 1999 Singing along with Richard, my favorite part of the AARs is the learning experience. My learning curve upon starting the game will be much shorter because of observing the mechanics of the game in action. Martin and Fionn, your care to show the use of the LOS tool, unit displays, blast radii, time delays of arty and, most importantly, troop behavior under different conditions, has been a Godsend. I cannot thank you both enough for your dedication. Unlike Richard, I don't think I am learning much about strategy or tactics. No offense intended, but I have been pretty frustrated overall with each of you at different points. But then, I have the luxury of sitting in my armchair reading the AARs in a hindsight environment. Anyway, my opportunity to command is coming soon enough and I am sure I will promptly be made to eat my words. My main point though is to thank you both for your great work on our behalf. I salute you. Pixman ------------------ The enchanter may confuse the outcome, but the effort remains sublime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted September 14, 1999 Share Posted September 14, 1999 Pixman, Trust me, looking back at some of my decisions I would be frustrated too BUT at the time they seemed right or I was rattled or whatever. The FOW in CM really works. It really can throw a spanner in the works and the inability to instantly and perfectly respond a la IGO-UGO systems means chaos ensues. As another point I would like to state that this is the first scenario of this scale Martin and I have played so we've actually been learning all the time too. I'm quite sure both of us will eradicate some of the mistakes we made here next time we play . Some of the errors are due simply to thinking with our "IGO-UGO, I'm still used to SP and CC" hats on.. CM is different and more realistic IMO and so you need to think differently. No more massive, unco-ordinated charges succeeding. As a case in point of the learning I'd like to point you to the casualty rates suffered in clearing the wall line and southern hill versus what I've suffered recently. I've learnt and it shows. I'm sure Martin is doing the same. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted September 14, 1999 Share Posted September 14, 1999 Ditto what Fionn said. I am very very certain that a good number of people out there that think of themselves as experienced wargamers will have to do some serious unlearning. I remember the very first tries between me and Fionn... you guys would laugh! It's like learning walking after an accident or something. Everything seems familiar, but you have to learn everything new. As Fionn said, we've just played a couple of preparatory games before this one and are still learning. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted September 14, 1999 Share Posted September 14, 1999 Yes, the first time I attacked I lost 5 Panthers on the very first hill I moved to within 300 metres of my map edge. Then when I defended on a very slightly changed map one Panther stopped Martin's entire assault.. We're both very experienced wargamers with many, many years of experience behind us but CM is different. Get ready to unlearn a Steve is so fond of saying. It's very true. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixman Posted September 14, 1999 Share Posted September 14, 1999 I believe you both and did not mean to put you on the defensive. Your mutual knowledge of warfare is obvious and I am sure far exceeds mine. And, yes Fionn, I have noticed you progressing through the learning curve with regard to infantry tactics (can you say command and control? ) I will shut up now on this because it is really not polite for me to nitpick the supreme effort both of you are making. There is certainly much more to applaud in your respective approaches than there is to condemn. Keep up the good work and keep those AARs coming. And pray Floyd does not level my house!!! Pixman ------------------ The enchanter may confuse the outcome, but the effort remains sublime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted September 15, 1999 Share Posted September 15, 1999 "Comm... Comun... Communist Control." Damnit.. I thought I had it that time Ps. Pat put up a very cool "vote for who you think will win" poll at http://www.battlefront.com/aar So far Martin has three votes and I have none so obviously everyone knows something I don't GULP ! ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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