Attacker Defender Swapping Positions in QB [v2.20]

[WynnterGreen]

I have a map that I'm play testing at the moment;

When it starts in Quick Battle I still get the Attacker Reversed into the Defenders Position Bug.

Still no fix for this? Or is there something in the map settings that can be tweaked?

[BadgerDog]

It's a serious bug that's been in existence for several years...

A playing partner and myself are currently working on a pattern of why it exists, apparently only for assault and attack type QB's..

We're trying to get QB map Asslt Large Forest (water) QB-214.btt working with German side in "Assault Mode" and British side defending.

German side starts setup and sends Move 1 to British side. British side does setup and sends Move 2 back. German side tries their setup and discovers their setup zone is exactly the same as the British side.

We've tried this setup several times, and the anomaly we can't figure out is why the QB worked the very first time for German setup in their proper zone, but has NOT worked for any subsequent attempts.

Quite frankly, it spoils the game in many ways and makes the only usable QB's I've ever been able to play as "Meeting Engagements" only.

I sure wish BFC would find some time to track down this long standing bug and fix it.

By the way, you're not on an Apple Mac computer are you?

Regards,

Doug

[BadgerDog]

Follow up...

This bug only happens when one or both sides options are set to "manual" selection of forces and if both sides choose "auto" selection of forces, the QB setup works fine and each respective side have their correct setup zones.

Regards,

Doug

[kohlenklau]

Never often play QB as H2H but trying to increase my PBEM's and enjoy the game more, so I just did my first and see the ugly bug. My force crafted for vicious defense now has to venture out to be the attacker. Gulp.

Is there a way in use to trick the bug? Players agree to the trick attempt perhaps something like below?

Player A: The QB dropdown says he is defender but knows he will be placed in the attack setup zone and purchases his max points allowed.

Player B: The QB dropdown says he is attacker but he knows he will be the defender and only purchases on his honor X percentage of what defender gets.

Or does everybody just use meeting engagements and that ALWAYS solves it? Sort of?

Thanks.

[Bud Backer]

Never often play QB as H2H but trying to increase my PBEM's and enjoy the game more, so I just did my first and see the ugly bug. My force crafted for vicious defense now has to venture out to be the attacker. Gulp.Is there a way in use to trick the bug? Players agree to the trick attempt perhaps something like below?Player A: The QB dropdown says he is defender but knows he will be placed in the attack setup zone and purchases his max points allowed.Player B: The QB dropdown says he is attacker but he knows he will be the defender and only purchases on his honor X percentage of what defender gets.Or does everybody just use meeting engagements and that ALWAYS solves it? Sort of?Thanks.

I'd certainly find that a reasonable solution. Just like my proposal that for tiny maps that both players agree to spend a set amount of points rather than the much greater amounts afforded by the game.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Bud_B

[Vanir Ausf B]

There are a few things that you can try that will sometimes work.

 

Open up the map in the editor. Look at the setup zones and compare them to the Battle Type. Whichever side is set as the attacker in the Battle Type should have the attacker setup zone (the smaller one). In CMBN the Allies are set as the attacker by default in the stock QB maps.

 

Save the map, even if you have made no changes to it. I have been able to fix the bug simply by doing this, but it doesn't work all the time.

 

Switch who starts the game. Sometimes the bug happens when one player starts the game but not when the other starts it.

[kohlenklau]

. Except on alternating Thursdays when you are wearing a blue tie in a month with the letter J!

QB's new name, NSQB. Not So Quick Battle.

Hey Bud, OK, you are on, let us play some CMBN QB's in this gentlemen's rules system. I will PM you tonight.

Because I am mmm at wo..oork..now andd...I am...sup..posed ..to be uh,..working.

[Bud Backer]

. Except on alternating Thursdays when you are wearing a blue tie in a month with the letter J!QB's new name, NSQB. Not So Quick Battle.Hey Bud, OK, you are on, let us play some CMBN QB's in this gentlemen's rules system. I will PM you tonight.Because I am mmm at wo..oork..now andd...I am...sup..posed ..to be uh,..working.

Work may pay the bills but it's otherwise highly overrated.

Do I need to wear a blue tie?

[Bud Backer]

There are a few things that you can try that will sometimes work.

 

Open up the map in the editor. Look at the setup zones and compare them to the Battle Type. Whichever side is set as the attacker in the Battle Type should have the attacker setup zone (the smaller one). In CMBN the Allies are set as the attacker by default in the stock QB maps.

 

Save the map, even if you have made no changes to it. I have been able to fix the bug simply by doing this, but it doesn't work all the time.

 

Switch who starts the game. Sometimes the bug happens when one player starts the game but not when the other starts it.

That's interesting, if a bit of a hassle. I'll have to experiment.

[kohlenklau]

I sent you a PM Bud. For tiny QB,  I propose we use half of allotted points. 582 for attacker and 369 for defender....OK? 

[Bud Backer]

I sent you a PM Bud. For tiny QB,  I propose we use half of allotted points. 582 for attacker and 369 for defender....OK?

Got your msg and pm'd your back. In a word: yes.

[kohlenklau]

Bud and I have been playing a few Attack QB's H2H and we also dialed down the points to 50% for a hybrid tiny battle.

 

Battle 1 the set ups were correct. I spent 582 and Bud spent 369. 

 

Battle 2 the set ups were bugged. As soon as Bud told me, I renamed the outgoing email file and resent it to him.

I was supposed to be defender but we agreed I would spend all 738 to be the attacker.

Bud was supposed to attack but instead purchased as defender by getting 63% of my 738 points. He could spend 465.

63% is the attacker-defender ratio the game engine uses. At least for the battle sizes we play.

[WynnterGreen]

This bug is a real pain...... it doesn't only ruin games.

I've got maps that I've never released because in play testing the bug appears and effectively destroys it as an Attack Map.

[Bud Backer]

Bud and I have been playing a few Attack QB's H2H and we also dialed down the points to 50% for a hybrid tiny battle.

Battle 1 the set ups were correct. I spent 582 and Bud spent 369.

Battle 2 the set ups were bugged. As soon as Bud told me, I renamed the outgoing email file and resent it to him.

I was supposed to be defender but we agreed I would spend all 738 to be the attacker.

Bud was supposed to attack but instead purchased as defender by getting 63% of my 738 points. He could spend 465.

63% is the attacker-defender ratio the game engine uses. At least for the battle sizes we play.

Yeah, it worked out in the end, but it's not the battle we intended to play. Is Battlefront aware of this issue? Have they given any indication if it can/will be looked into? Edited January 20, 2015 by Bud_B

[A Canadian Cat]

I may not be totally in the loop so I might be wrong with what I am about to say. I am not aware of any swapping issue that has not been resolved. I some how missed this thread - can't read everything. As far as I am aware each time a specific repeatable test case has been brought forward it has been fixed. If this is still happening I would be happy to help get it logged correctly.

@WynnterGreen you said you have one or more maps that you see the problem. Could you send them to me (I'll PM you with my email). Could you please tell me step by step what you do to setup the QB that triggers it - no need for pictures but you can if you want. I will try to reproduce the problem and get back to you.

@kohlenklau and @Bud_B same. Are you guys seeing this with the shipping QBs or something you created?

[Bud Backer]

I may not be totally in the loop so I might be wrong with what I am about to say. I am not aware of any swapping issue that has not been resolved. I some how missed this thread - can't read everything. As far as I am aware each time a specific repeatable test case has been brought forward it has been fixed. If this is still happening I would be happy to help get it logged correctly.@WynnterGreen you said you have one or more maps that you see the problem. Could you send them to me (I'll PM you with my email). Could you please tell me step by step what you do to setup the QB that triggers it - no need for pictures but you can if you want. I will try to reproduce the problem and get back to you.@kohlenklau and @Bud_B same. Are you guys seeing this with the shipping QBs or something you created?

Hi Ian, I believe the map in question is from the game, but I'll double check the provenance when I'm home. I appreciate your offer to help.

I take it that there is a consistent method to fix this issue then? Would be handy for budding map makers to know what it is to avoid making defective maps.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Bud_B

[kohlenklau]

On a separate in progress CMFI QB with another opponent it was a shipping QB and we showed up swapped.

 

On this CMBN swapped QB, Bud racked up the battle so he knows if it was a stock map....

[A Canadian Cat]

I take it that there is a consistent method to fix this issue then? Would be handy for budding map makers to know what it is to avoid making defective maps.

I am not aware of anything resembling "a consistent method to fix". If I learn anything of value that can be passed on I will. I do not remember the resolution the time I had it happen to me - which probably means there was nothing I could have done to fix things.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I may not be totally in the loop so I might be wrong with what I am about to say. I am not aware of any swapping issue that has not been resolved. I some how missed this thread - can't read everything.

There are multiple causes. A mismatch between the Battle Type and the setup zones in the editor is one. AFAIK those have been fixed for the most part. But even when everything looks correct it can happen.

I did some testing on this with BadgerDog just a few months ago. We had a map with which we would get the swapped zones. I fixed it by simply loading the map into the editor and then saving it without making any changes. But the fix only worked for us. When he tried using the same fixed map with another opponent they were switched.

In most of the cases that I am aware of one of the players was on a Mac. But I can't say for sure if that is a factor since most reports don't mention the type of computer used by each player.

[Bud Backer]

I am not aware of anything resembling "a consistent method to fix". If I learn anything of value that can be passed on I will. I do not remember the resolution the time I had it happen to me - which probably means there was nothing I could have done to fix things.

 

Ah sorry, I misunderstood. 

 

I am trying to find the map. I can't remember which one I used and it's slow going narrowing it down.