New file at the Repository: CMRT Blood on the Tracks (2014-07-08)

[Erwin]

*******SPOILER*********

I wasn't moving the tanks ahead of the inf but close beside, so that (in theory) all inf and armor should be able to fire as soon as a target appears. However, ATG's tend to first make themselves known when a tank blows up. And each ATG was able to KO 2 or 3 tanks before inf and other armor units could locate and kill it. (When I have placed ATG's they were easily spotted and didn't seem to survive long. These ATG's must have been well-placed by the designer as they were hard to spot even after firing 2 or 3 times.)

On the other hand the Russian progress has been like a steamroller as the right flank is about 2/3 across the map. However, the Russian casualties may be too high. Time will tell.

I feel that that was the "proper/RL" Russian approach. However, I am finding that with CM:RT I am achieving more success with the CMBN/CMFI German/Western Allied approach of splitting inf into teams and scouting and keeping the armor well back. I hope that someone more versed in Soviet tactics can comment.

I am not an expert on RL Soviet tactics, but to use the steamroller approach I think that one needs more inf and tanks so that the friendly losses are acceptable. Right about now (25-30 minutes into the scenario I could do with another three tanks and maybe some inf flamer units (or another OT-34), or even something cool like an ISU-152.

[Combatintman]

Has anybody tried going hey diddle diddle right up the middle yet? That's what I did when I tested this for snake_eye.

******************SPOILER*************************************

It worked for me

[snake_eye]

***************************Spoiler**************************************

Quote from Combatintman

"Has anybody tried going hey diddle diddle right up the middle yet? That's what I did when I tested this for snake_eye.

It worked for me" End Quote

The same for me Combatintman.

29:29 Remaining Time. Played Elite Real Time

I am playing it right now, once more having let some time to go by. that is a good way to forget the setting and the A.I triggers I have made.

I went first in the centre with two tanks and a platoon, reached up to now all the way up the wood. One T34, Killed by a shot flank a Stug III in ambush along the main road farther than the RR tower. I lost one tank from a Marder lurking in the farm village. It moved since to threaten my forward elements. My remaining tank should not try to shoot it, since the LOS of a Marder with its crew in the open is better, the T34 will be killed promptly like its brother.

I then have started my move on the right flank and I am now level with my centre attack axis. I got some casualties and an entire squad mowed down by MG's flanking fire a bit farther than the bridge. The amazing thing is that the first squad made it without being fired at all and the second one was wiped !

On the left my force have called an artillery barrage on Hill 130 wood and they are now probing the road. It looks like there are not a soul in the area. I stay cautious. For the rest, I think that I am about to reach the main line of resistance on the right and the centre axis. I am afraid It will be another story.

@all

Let us know, about your battles

cheer

[snake_eye]

@all

Here is my AAR playing the Red side Elite in Real Time.

*********************************SPOILERS*********************************

Well to be the designer doesn't mean that I am going to get a Total Victory as many might think. I just got a Minor defeat with 2013 points against 3423.

The Germans have had 36 KIA, 25 WIA, 1 Tank Lost, 5 AVL

The Reds have had 40KIA, 25 WIA, 3 Tanks lost, 1 AVL, 1 OVL

The Reds have not had a lot of casualties considering, the fact that they were the attackers. They are broadly the same than the Germans for the Infantry and 4 times higher for the tanks and SPG . 3 T34's and 1 SU76 shot and one T34 destroyed by a mine while moving on the road of hill 130.

The centre axis attack with a platoon and 2 tanks was stalled, almost, at the edge of the road leading from the Farm Village to the Village Centre.

I was not able to have a look at the two attacks as it would have been necessary in order to have my flanks covered.. That is not easy to do in RT. That is why I focused my first assault on the centre and it took time. It is only when I reached the edge of that road I wrote about above, that I moved the forces on the right to bring them more or less level with the centre ones.

Besides a nasty surprise from some HMG's near the entrance of the village, that cost me a squad, I was able to make a good advance. Quicker than I thought, I could do it. That surely is the fact that a StuG III had been shot earlier by one of the 2 tanks sent on the centre. With that tank in action, it would have cost me at least a tank besides some Infantry casualties.

The centre forces were also able to pin down a Pak on their right side which was commandeering the right axi,s I was about to move in. That allowed a team leader to bring a mortar barrage on it and have it destroyed.

Finally, after having left some time go by after the heavy Howitzer barrage called on Hill 130, I cautiously started to move troops on its inner edge, then along the road and itssides. The squads had mutual support.

I was engaged on the left and got pinned. On the right it was the same. However the centre squad moved along and rejoined the others. One SU 76 moved on the road, then one T34 followed. The wood was ours.

One SU 76 that I had moved earlier with an MG team on the left side of the centre attack and left there to cover my flank, saw the enemy doing an orderly retreat from Hill 130 toward the Farm Village. There was a brief fire exchange and it was all. I was now sure that the enemy had left Hill 130.

I moved another T34 through Hill 130 road ,it struck a mine and blew up. That happened when the third track moved through !

The remaining T34 went all the way to the forest on the far side of the map, where a SU 85 had been posted earlier with a StuG III not too far from it.

I thought that I could take one of them and the other one left by a flank shot, before they could turn.

Surprise, when I came near the wood, the SU 85 had penetrated the wood and was no more seen. Then the StuG III started to move. My first and only shot did nothing and my commander riding "open hatch " was WIA in return. I reversed and was later shot and destroyed by a Panzerschreck within 3 to 4 shots being fired. I heard them but could not locate the firer.

Then my SU 76 tried its chance for a side shot against the StuG. As soon as it was in position, it was cleanly killed by either a SPW and or a Pak firing from the village.

I just had the time to move the tanks on the right axis toward the centre while avoiding some Flak gun fire when the Time limit was reached.

The lesson:

If you play RT try to concentrate your force on one axis or two axis at the most. these axis should not be far apart to allow you to have an eye on both of them.

Use your artillery and mortars asset as much as you can. You must have in mind that only certain leaders and the FO will be the only ones able to call the barrage. Their LOS is primordial. Think of one or two emplacements safe enough before having to bring there your Leader and or FO.

Use smoke when it may be necessary to hide your movement through open grounds. These are usually killing grounds registered by at least some HMG's and mortars FO and maybe some tanks guns.

Have in mind that while waiting for the barrage it might be better not to move. Wait for the enemy to be pinned down by the barrage to start moving toward your objective.

Don't continue once the barrage is lifted. The enemy might recover very quickly and you better be close enough to assault them immediately. Otherwise stay hidden as much you can, while waiting a second barrage volley.

Don't have your tanks without Infantry support close to them within the houses and or into the woods.

Avoid moving your tanks along roads which provide an open field of fire. Have one moving while the other is covering it, if you can not move elsewhere

Have them fire at suspected and potentially used enemy emplacements

Deploy your tanks on open ground, since far apart targets are more difficult to engage

Once you have decided to use a plan stick with it as long as it works. Don't be fool enough to keep going on with it if it fails. Back up or apply an alternate plan you have thought about earlier.

If all these things do not help you, let us know in this post of your predicament. I am sure, you will get a sound advice from someone.

Meanwhile, I wish you all a good battle and more tries if needed that the A.I plans will allow and if some of you are playing it H2H your battle will interest all of us to th eupmost

Cheer

[Erwin]

Been reading Prit Buttar's "Between Giants" - a historical account of WW2 operations in the Baltics.

The book is VERY detailed about operations and which units took part, so would be useful to designers. Altho' the maps are inadequate and one can get confused re what locations are being discussed.

Re CM:RT the book is making a couple things really stand out for me.

1) Soviet doctrine had their tanks buttoned up and they seemed quite blind compared to the German policy of keeping CO head in open hatch. This contributed to the unequal tank casualties suffered by the Soviets. There was one fun story where a Russian tank parked next to a Tiger. The Tiger couldn't rotate its gun to fire as it hit the Russian turret!

2) ATG's (on both sides) seemed to do a LOT of damage, some killing a dozen or more tanks. They certainly didn't seem like the suicidal ones in CM where your ATG may get to fire once and then it's spotted and the next thing it's dead. (Maybe these actions took place a longer ranges than the typical CM map allows?)

I do wonder if one can really simulate the Russian limitations in this game. We players can act like German tanks commanders and command Russian tanks far more effectively than historically accurate. We can also command our infantry in more effective ways.

As I mentioned b4, trying to simulate the Russian approach may not be workable in this (or any) scenario if the design assumption is that we players will embue our Soviet units with German style command benefits. (And no I don't see any solution as it's hard to play a game and deliberately act "inefficiently".)

Anyway... just a few thoughts. I recommend the book.

[snake_eye]

@Erwin,

I knew about the book, but hesitated in buying it. I shall not anymore and order it, Thanks.

[Erwin]

Mr. Buttar has also written another book called "Battleground Prussia - The Assault on Germany's Eastern Front 1944-45".

May be worth a look as well.

I thought maybe he was German. But, apparently he is a UK doctor, studied at Oxford, joined the British Army...

[Broadsword56]

ATG's (on both sides) seemed to do a LOT of damage, some killing a dozen or more tanks. They certainly didn't seem like the suicidal ones in CM where your ATG may get to fire once and then it's spotted and the next thing it's dead. (Maybe these actions took place a longer ranges than the typical CM map allows?)

As I mentioned b4, trying to simulate the Russian approach may not be workable in this (or any) scenario if the design assumption is that we players will embue our Soviet units with German style command benefits. (And no I don't see any solution as it's hard to play a game and deliberately act "inefficiently".)

Yes, but I suspect it's not only the tendency of CM players to play with smaller maps/engagement ranges than historically, but also to deploy AT guns poorly -- not on a front line, but in the rear and in defilade, and deployed in a keyhole position to hit armor from the flank or rear.

Re: Simulating Soviet command -- it can be done but you just have to agree with your opponent on whatever limitations or house rules might apply. For example, in my current battle the Soviet artillery are limited to direct fire artillery shots, or indirect fire missions only on the TRPs -- not spontaneous fire missions called in by spotters -- to simulate the lack of radios and different procedures (HQ-driven fire plans, etc.)

[Erwin]

Yes, I hope AT guns and some of the famous tank killers like the Nashorn and 88mm ATG's will come into their own one we get more 3K+ size/LOS maps etc. Right now they get spotted easily and rarely get off more than one shot b4 being targeted.

I understand the need for house rules if one wants to simulate the Soviet style, including keeping their tanks buttoned up at all times. But, like trying to play on Iron with only using level one views etc etc... it's tough to keep oneself "honest".

Also, German buttoned tanks seem to spot quite well. I get the feeling that Soviet buttoned tanks also seem to spot as well as the Germans. I may be wrong.

Anyone know if the Russian's spotting ability of tanks has been degraded to simulate the enormous disparity in kills between the Germans and Soviets?

[snake_eye]

@Broadsword

I don't know if I have correctly interpreted your comments about the ATG.

Quote: Yes, but I suspect it's not only the tendency of CM players to play with smaller maps/engagement ranges than historically, but also to deploy AT guns poorly -- not on a front line, but in the rear and in defilade, and deployed in a keyhole position to hit armor from the flank or rear End quote

Should I understand that the ATG's should be deployed frontally ? That is correct when firing from a long distance (more than 500 meters) or in ambush at a short range.

However when deployed in defence it might not be always possible to have a good LOS from such a distance due to the ground and vegetation features. The gun concealed emplacement might be disclosed once the gun has been fired and in CM as we all know they don't stand much chance in the following moments.

In CMBN an '88 was most of the time (because of its high silhouette) disposed off right away. A Pak ATG lasted longer. However I have seen some improvement in CMRT about that issue

That is why, I rather prefer a flank firing emplacement, since it will be less seen from the attacking tanks, unless they are driving straight to it.

Sure enough, the gun crew will have less time to align a tank and fire, but a flank shot will have more chance to penetrate, than on the tank forward heavy armoured bulk.

For the rest, I don't believe in a rear shot possibility, since setting an ATG in a concealed emplacement with that in mind, in the game is not so easy. The crew will most likely be killed by the troops usually following closely the tank spearhead, before it can fire on any tank overtaking its emplacement.

@all

That issue made me think about a scenario with a large and long map ideally suited for tanks attacks and ATG's defences.

My idea is basically the following : to have the Reds A.I attacking toward the German line.

This is what we are finding in quite a few scenarios. However that scenario will differ radically from the others, since most of the Germans defenders will be on the far edge of the map and that they will have to be moved quickly by the player to positions from which they will be able to set ATG's and some tanks. Failing to do so will be an invitation for disaster. It will be up to the player to select and reach these positions and or try what he thinks might be best around

The reason for the Germans being farther back will be that the Soviet as usual for that 1944 period will have a powerful artillery barrage preceding the tanks assault with their accompanying infantry (mounted on the tanks and or running alongside). Red Planes will also support the tanks assault, strafing and or bombing the forward line, as soon as the artillery barrage will end.

It will be a difficult choice for the player to move forward during the barrage, wait a little or the end of it. The planes threats will oblige him to use wisely its Flaks units in order to disrupt as much as it is possible the planes ground attacks.

I shall try the feasibility of that battle in the next days and if it works as I expect it to, then I shall work on the details of the A.I and on the forces balance. I might use a Nashorn (that should please Erwin :cool: ) and maybe one or two king Tiger's.

That battle will most likely have a close reference with the ones having taken place in late 1944 and early 1945 in East Prussia. Nothing is certain at the moment, but that the Red will have much more forces than their opponent.

Cheer

[Erwin]

Thanks, snake_eye... I don't think I have ever seen a scenario with a Nashorn, so should be interesting.

Am still looking forward to completing Blood on the Tracks. RL unfortunately is taking up too much time.

BTW: One major reason that one can use ATG's in keyhole or flank position is that CM maps are very hilly or have other terrain that blocks long LOS and not flat compared to most pics I have seen of East Front which show a lot of flat long LOS terrain. Frontal defenses with powerful guns like the 88mm would work better in RL.

(Of course the short LOS range of CM2 maps due to LOS blocking terrain are what makes the scenarios interesting and fun.)

[Frankster65]

Thanks, snake_eye... I don't think I have ever seen a scenario with a Nashorn, so should be interesting.

I remember a scenario from the old CMBB which had Nashorns, a platoon of them IIRC. The German (player's) defensive positions were way at the end of the map, it was a long map IIRC and there were good positions for the Nashorns in hull down just behind the infantry company you were protecting. When the scenario started and the AI Russian player sent tanks it was a beauty to behold watching those Nashorns in action at great distances. Always loved that scenario. Been thinking actually of loading up my old CMBB in order to cherry pick scenarios from it to convert to CMRT, giving due credit to original scenario creators of course.

[Erwin]

"...loading up my old CMBB in order to cherry pick scenarios from it to convert to CMRT".

Yes. Now we can have CM2 maps and scenarios similar in size to the huge ones in CM1. I am looking forward to larger scope missions in which transport/mobility is important, as is the necessity for recon, mobile reserves, and the ability for motorized flanking maneuvers to take advantage of breakthroughs etc.

CM1 was able to handle (sort of) operational-level scenarios. However, to date, the majority of CM2 scenarios tend to be straight ahead tactical assaults/attacks with little/no opportunity for significant motorized maneuver.

[snake_eye]

Talonsoft's allowed large battle map. I liked and still play sometimes "Rising Sun" which allows amphibious assaults. One of my favorite despite its small size is the Tarawa assault scenario.

CM allows you to command a battalion more or less easily while you can handle more of them in Talonsoft's. However the visual effect of CM2 is far better and incomparable up to now.

[snake_eye]

I have just tested the idea I had for my new scenario. it worked very well. The Flak is firing on the Red planes therefore protecting the 2 King Tigers and the 2 Nashorns. One Nashorn was shot rather quickly without having done a kill, the 2 KT and the other Nashorn bagged 11 T34's and 8 T70's. The The 2 x 88's have only killed one T34 before being destroyed by an artillery barrage falling on top of them I have had only one Nashorn killed out of two and the Reds had 22 tanks killed, among them. 3 are blue on blue from their aircrafts !

The initial engagement range is from 1000 to 1800 meters and later on closing to 400 meters.

that fight testing was done during the first twenty minutes.

I shall be able from that first test to work on the A.I and change some units to other one more adapted to that kind of battle.

More later

[snake_eye]

Well, well the testing of that new scenario with some changes is full of surprises. Good ones that is. I had the Reds mortars and some ATG's ready to fire at the crest of the hill where the Germans might be lurking at them with some of their ATG's.

The battle was a real pleasure since I was able to bring to a halt the Red hordes, besides few Infantry elements that were able to reach the Germans rear lines. They would not change anyway the issue of the battle, the Reds lost it

I have had a King Tiger destroyed only at the end of the battle while moving it forward in order to seek the last Reds tanks remaining on the battlefield.

I have lost my 6 Pak 43 rather quickly at the beginning of the game mostly to tank firing. Checking out their score I was surprised that they had not even one kill.

My 2 Pak 88's did just a bit better1 x JS2 and 2 x T 34's, they killed 37 Reds.

The 2 Nashorns destroyed 7 x JS2, 1 x T 34, 5 trucks and killed 79 Reds.

The best came from the 2 King Tigers. 17 x T 34's, 11 JS2's, 1 x BA64, 7 trucks and believe it 179 Reds killed.

A panzerschreck team got 1 x JS2, A Flak 37 destroyed 4 trucks and most of its occupants , that is 32 Reds and finally a squad destroyed while doing a counter attack 4 trucks and killed 35 Reds.

I think that there will be not that many A.I triggering to do. As a matter of fact to check the feasibility of my scenario setting I have not used any for the moment.

Near the end of the battle, I got low on ammo and if I was able to resupply the 88's with their team B, I was unable to do it with the ones that had their Pak 43guns destroyed and that I had moved close to the 88's thinking that they would resupply them. That does not work. Too bad.

My Nashorns and King Tigers were almost dry on ammo. Only one of each had some HE and just a few AP's left.

The Reds planes made numerous and spectacular strafing. I was happy to have the Flakvierlings and the 37mm available. The tracers crisscrossing the sky were nice to look at and the sound of the planes is pretty well done.

I have know to work on the map and make it a bit longer. I want to be able to move forward as part of my counter attack, some elements of an Infantry battalion on trucks and or on some tanks to prevent Reds infantry to gain grounds. They will have to dismount, before being in full view of the enemy. I don't want aJS2 to score a hit on a loaded truck. In my testing it happened once for atruck and all the troops were KIA and or WIA I also have to set the objectives and their victory points

The player will have to move the troops where and when he thinks it will be best. The same applies to the 2 Nashorns and the 2 King Tigers which are parked on a reverse slope at a wood edge hidden from the planes. I am not going to give you any hints in order not to spoil anything right now, but to inflict the casualties shown on the AAR, you have to apply a tactic the Germans where using cleverly at the time. Looking at the result it is a pretty good one. You just have to keep your nerve down, brace yourself when the artillery barrage comes down and wait for the Reds to come and it will work. Next you can have your Infantry doing a counter attack and sweep the grounds from their opponents.

If I am not to busy, I think that I could release that scenario within two to three weeks at the most. That give me some time to find its name.............

For those interested, the map named "Huge Open Rural" has been chosen among the Quick Battle Map and has a 2480 x 2224 size. It will be slightly modified, since it seems perfectly adapted at the scenario.

The A.I has been cleared, as the objectives, since I only needed the map.

[Childress]

Feel free to post your comments about your battle here.

Great looking scenario, Snake Eye. Unfortunately it brings my medium powered laptop to its knees. Don't understand exactly why, it runs Gog and Magog with aplomb. Maybe because yours is so 'purty'?

[snake_eye]

@childress,

Thanks for the compliment. But I really think that on average laptop (the same happens to me , that is why I had to move to a Desktop a year ago)) the trees are the issue to look at. It takes a lot of graphic power to play smoothly without a glitch such scenarios. The one I am making right now will run with your gear better since the grounds have less details and just few trees than "Blood on the tracks" which has however a small map size. That new scenario has more troops and tanks, but it runs without any problems on my recent desktop.

Cheer

[blow56]

I think the Russians are a little artillery light for this task - not a problem for the Germans, who can also plant it accurately given their FO and TIs I would add Soviet aircraft, but I think the aircraft use is broken in this iteration of the series - every time I have used them, I have ended up being bombed and strafed by my own planes, which seem to take a totally random approach to targeting. Adding more art helps, considering the approaches are bottlenecked to facilitate a mined defence on what is essentially a frontal attack. I know it looks as if you can flank them, but actually you can't.

[snake_eye]

@Blow56

If you are referring to "Blood on the tracks", the Red artillery battery (4 tubes) consisting of 122 mm howitzer is sufficient, they also have some mortars (light and medium) off map and on map becoming very handy at short notice when closing on the enemy.

The main drawback for the artillery use is the difficulty for the FO teams (there are two of them) to designate an area easily, once the battle is started.

That is why, gaining a high ground is tactically important. From it an FO can direct and call its artillery barrages to good use. It takes time, so you have to cool down and wait to resume your advance, only when the barrage is pinning down the Germans. I must confess that I have some difficulties doing so !

About the planes, I thought at a time having one or two on the Russians side. However, this being a small scale attack and done on a small area, its potential advantage would have been more for the Germans than the Reds, since they would have suffered from Blue on Blue.

Remember, I mentioned (above in that post) having few of them on my large scale attack WIP.

So it looks like we have more or less, the same feeling about the use and results of air assets.

******************************SPOILERS************************************

About the attack. It is a frontal attack, but the short LOS of the defenders, is rather an advantage. A flanking movement is possible and I have done it, but you have to keep in mind that in that instance the defenders LOS is taking advantage of the greater distance and somehow better LOS, even if it is not always perfect. That is when the artillery with HE and better, smoke rounds usage makes the difference in your approach.

This scenario is a tactical example of what can be done and what should not be done. The player has all the facilities to demonstrate it, once he has observed with attention the map. With that in mind, all the Red forces can be switched as it please on the setup starting area. Some will prefer a strong force others two forces, an artillery opening barrage and so on.....

On my part, I use two distinct forces for the attack. One on the right, the other depending on the prevailing situation on the far left and or the center.

The Germans being on defense have the advantage of the grounds, since it is likely that they will occupied well sited emplacements with a good field of fire and interlocking killing grounds. That is as much as their LOS will allow them.

They also have pre registered for their mortars and Nebelwerfers 41 the most likely path of advance of the enemy.

The Nebelwerfers 41 have limited precision and take time to reload, but they are capable to carpet an area with a shower of rockets within a short time. It will be safe to be elsewhere.

Despites these assets and facilities, the Germans are handicapped by the rather short and limited in some places LOS of that forested village .

It will be interesting to know how players are managing that battle, since I am sure that even without following a tactical drill, some can , maybe by sheer luck win that battle. That happened in the past.

Cheer

[Erwin]

*****SPOILERS******

Just completed Blood on the Tracks.

Very good scenario that is hampered by perhaps poor replayability potential since I would really like to play at it again. I got a draw when I saved and did a CF about 50 minutes b4 the end as I was really low on inf and tanks. Then I reloaded and played on till about 15 minutes b4 end to see if I could improve my score - I got more points but not enuff to get a victory.

My main error was trying to play the Soviets as I thought they should be played - using platoons (inf and tank) together and not splitting squads. ie: Steamroller and mass firepower rather than scouting and maneuver for keyhole shots.

I did two attacks on the flanks like most people seem to have done. (I wonder if one attack on one flank would have been smarter.) German arty wasn't a big problem - I simply waited until the barrage seemed to stop and rushed over the river (tank riding) with few casualties when the arty started up again.

But, once across the downside of keeping squads and tank platoons close together showed. One ambush or minefield would take out several guys and one ATG would take out 2 or 3 tanks b4 the ATG was killed.

My plan was to try and get all the way across the map via the flanks and then attack "backwards". I got about 2/3 the way on the right flank, but then halted due to high casualties.

One the left flank, I lost a couple of tanks plus infantry to the minefields on the road in the woods. Arty helped take out most of the Germans defending, but I had to use inf to KO the Stug.

I also tried to send units through the woods. But, here I was tricked by the AI pathing as instead of allowing vehicles thru the woods if sent em thru another minefield strategically placed at the edge of the tank trap. There didn't seem any reason why a path thru the woods wasn't possible, so I felt a bit cheated by that. I think it's a bit unfair when the designer exploits the vagaries of the AI pathing eccentricities.

To make matters worse a Stug had a keyhole to that exact spot and I lost a tank plus two trucks there. (The Russian ATG was useless - never got anyplace useful.)

Nevertheless as my inf unit got down to only a few guys per squad and I only had a couple tanks and an assault gun left, my efficiency went up. I was able to make a lot more progress getting to the back map edge on both right and left flanks killing enemy flak and AFV's as I went.

I never got the Tiger and there was one Stug and some trucks surviving when I finally got bored and CF'd with about 15 mins on the clock..

Incidentally, I had a fair amount of arty ammo unused as I couldn't get a long enuff LOS in most cases to use it safely. More smoke would have been helpful maybe. However, the 50mm mortars were very useful for direct fire on guns.

I had rushed too fast and kept everything massed and that was the cause of many casualties. If I were to replay, I would use these 1944 era Russians as if they were Germans or WAllies. Scout, scout and scout some more. Split into teams and infiltrate slowly. Use tanks individually from keyhole positions rather than line em up for mass HE fire.

It's a shame that now all sides have similar characteristics and can use similar tactics. In CMRT I was looking forward to playing the Russians differently from the Germans and WAllies (like you have to handle the Italians and even the Brits differently than the US or Germans).

The fact that even after making all these errors I still got a draw shows the game is eminently winnable. But, I like winning and still having friendly forces in good enuff shape to keep going "tomorrow". (That's why I generally only play campaigns.) It bothers me to win when I only have handful of troops and vehicle crews left. That seems like a pyrrhic victory and such a CO would be sacked.

I wish this scenario was larger and had more possible attack strategies to try out as I would enjoy playing it again if there were more surprises.

[snake_eye]

Hi Erwin,

Glad you like it and it will not be hampered since it has a good replay ability with its 2 A.I plans. It also has more surprises. That will depend of your attack axis and of the scenario clock. Players having a cautious and methodical attack can even give it a longer time in the editor. I know Erwin, as you wrote it that you will not favour that option not liking to be idle on the battlefield while waiting for an artillery barrage.

About the wood on the left of the map. In order to have the tanks get through it on the road , you must put down precise pathway along the road and use the slow move rather than move and or quick. Otherwise the tank has a tendency to skirt the wood by the right toward the end of the tank ditch.

About your tactic. I think that you have discovered that on a congested and wooded area, it is difficult to have all the units attacking together or at least a full platoon toward one spot without having some knowledge of the enemy emplacement.

If for example, three tanks are attacking through the woods of the village they must absolutely adopt a leapfrog and or overwatching move. Otherwise they might be picked up one after the other by ATG, tank gun, panzerschreck and or panzerfaust, since the LOS is rather short and the range close. They must have Infantry deployed slightly forward and on their flanks (if needed). The Infantry once it has been engaged will have the immediate support of the tanks.

That way of fighting looks somehow, like the one in the Normandy bocage.

On the sides of the maps you have an open view on the battlefield. You must move quickly and or slowly using every possible ground fold that is available( that doesn't concern the left wood). If you are masking your move with a smoke barrage, you will most of the time reach your objective without too much harm.

But your attained position must take in consideration your next move and its defence possibilities without being too much in view of the enemy tanks and ATG's.

About your attack axis, the village one is the best and your plan to reach its end and reverse on the back of the enemy is good. If you had a difficulty doing it can be traced to the mass employment and its casualties. I think you could had used the artillery a lot better. OK, you are going to tell me that you don't like to wait and that registering the target is not easy. You are right. So forget the artillery, but be ready to bump straight into the enemy.

You will have to scratch them one by one, using the leapfrogging and overwatching methods and that takes times.

You can also try the attack axis and related tactics, I have wrote about in that post.

That scenario was specifically made to show the difficulties inherent in taking a rather small area with Infantry and tanks against German units applying a strict discipline in their defence scheme.

My next scenario - I shall post a WIP soon - will differ from this small and congested area. It will be fought on a map 2560 meters long by 2480 meters wide. More it will have long LOS. Pretty interesting with 2 Nashorns and 2 King Tigers on hand.

It won't be an easy battle. I have wrote, above, already about it. I am testing the detailed Russian AI attack on the left of the map. It works pretty well. Next the right axis will be refined and tested.

Yesterday, (playing in the designer mode) I lost one King Tiger moving on the crest during a counter attack. I still have to find on the AAR which unit got it. Tank and or ATG ?

My counter attack with Infantry on the right was a pleasure to watch. Earlier I had seen the Russian assault and the Infantry dismounting and assaulting their objective. I was surprise to see the JS2 commanders opening their hatches to see what was going on. They shot at the objective, but to my taste they should have done it during their approach. Maybe they did not want the mounted Infantry to be harm by the gun blast !

That time I have had no Blue on Blue from the Russians planes.

That scenario will demonstrate clearly the tactics use by the Germans during their defence on the East after Bagration. Tactics having been polished ever since they had to retreat since 1943.

Thanks for your comments Erwin.

Cheer

[Erwin]

"My next scenario - I shall post a WIP soon - will differ from this small and congested area. It will be fought on a map 2560 meters long by 2480 meters wide. More it will have long LOS. Pretty interesting with 2 Nashorns and 2 King Tigers on hand."

Xnt. Should be fun!

******SPOILERS******

I suggest that you also set up the possibility of "little sideshow" battles. I enjoyed that aspect of Railyard Attack. eg: Rather than always have a major defense to overcome that takes significant force, provide us with the problem of locating and neutralizing a pesky crack sniper of something similar (trying to not take friendly losses). So, one may have overwhelming force, but you don't want it committed at an early stage.

Also, re the current problem of troops happily following a blown up leaders into known minefields, plz use em judiciously and/or mark mines. A couple surprises are ok, but I felt I was losing too many men. Of course that was cos I had unsplit squads and platoons close together cos I thought that was doctrine.

Now I understand that 1944 Soviets should be handles more like Germans etc, splitting into scout teams and maintaining distance will mitigate the problem.

AI also hope that larger scenarios will give opportunity for radically different attack strategies. While you may have different AI plans for Blood on the Tracks, what reduces replayability is the fact that it is a small map and the attack strategies are limited to only one or two. Once one knows more or less where the ATG's and AA's are located and how many enemy tanks and minefields there are, it will never have the same surprises as the first time one played.

Your scenarios are always interesting and fun!!

[snake_eye]

@Erwin,

You are right to write that the replay ability is limited, however one might consider that even with a knowledge of some units positions from a previous game play the AI reserves always some nasty surprises. Why I am saying so ? Simply because having done the scenario and having worked a long time on the A.I besides testing it, I still have difficulties avoiding casualties, being caught out of balance frequently by the A.I.

I have had the same problems while testing other scenarios for CMRT. I thought I knew the spot to take care of and at least to avoid. That was not an advantage for the next testing.

The only thing that could be done would be to call an artillery barrage and or mortars if available during the setup, the LOS being not necessary. Even with that facility, the barrage might turn out to be disappointing as I have found it on many occasions, the target having only slight damage.

Besides that option, I have tried for some of them different approaches and I got more or less the same results at the end. That makes me think that there are for some scenarios a result that can not be changed simply by the tactic you are using, but rather by the ratio of the forces and materials being available for the battle. Something that might be an answer could be found in the scenario arithmetic rule defined ( VP and parameters) and the combination of the game algorithms used by BF.

About the minefields : There are to be used with care and lightly, since what you wrote is precisely what CM can not avoid entirely at the moment. But they can not be absent in some scenarios. Mines should be regarded has a deterrent and that is what they are meant for. If we could have the possibility to have the Engineers defused the mines they have marked that would be fine. It would be also interesting to have them do so without being blown up even while crawling on a suspected minefield.

I have many times used a sniper or some of them when I wanted to bring to a halt or slow down an enemy progression. usually putting them on an elevation, a church tower and or a house top floor. I do the same with MG's and HMG's. The results are not always what I expected. Sometimes they were even unnoticed, since they were not seen and the clearing of suspected sniper's locations was taking an awful long time for meager results.

However a very small "sniper chase"scenario could be done involving a squad and at the most a platoon in a village and or an urban district environment.

Well, it is about time to get back to my WIP A.I and work on the Russian assaults.

Cheer

[Erwin]

What u did with "helluva road opening" was.terrific. That's what I mean by providing the player with more strategy options. road Opening is definitely replayable.

.