PBEM play versus player without expansion possible?

[Cougar_DK]

Hi,

Is it possible for me to play with my Commonwealth expansion against a player that only has the base game (version 2), CW vs German?

Cheers

Mark

[TheVulture]

Nope. They won't have any of the models or game data necessary for the commonwealth stuff you are using.

[womble]

You can only play with stuff that's common to what you both have.

It would be nice if the first game file shared, on a temporary basis (for that game only), the necessary resources for a module owner to use what they have available, but I imagine the "setup" turn file would be rather large...

[Cougar_DK]

Ok - thanks

[slysniper]

Remember to let him start the game and you should not have any problems. That way there is no questions as to it seeing the correct game componants

[A Canadian Cat]

For a scenario that will work perfectly.

For a Quick Battle, even if the person without the module starts the game the person with the CW module can select unsupported forces and end up having the first person unable to open the turn. There was a post on TheBlitz just a short while ago where this happened.

So, just make sure you select only base game forces and it will work.

[womble]

For a Quick Battle, even if the person without the module starts the game the person with the CW module can select unsupported forces and end up having the first person unable to open the turn.

Really? That sucks. I thought half the purpose of the first couple of "blank" turns was to version check and filter force selection choices. It's already tricky enough to match up versions without having to know/look up whether a given unit or variant was part of the base game/relevant available moules or not.

It'd all be much simpler if the game setup allowed each side to use the forces they've got a licence to use. Probably an engine limitation too, though, that the models have to be on the disc, not part of the game file.

[sburke]

Really? That sucks. I thought half the purpose of the first couple of "blank" turns was to version check and filter force selection choices. It's already tricky enough to match up versions without having to know/look up whether a given unit or variant was part of the base game/relevant available moules or not.

It'd all be much simpler if the game setup allowed each side to use the forces they've got a licence to use. Probably an engine limitation too, though, that the models have to be on the disc, not part of the game file.

Thing is it isn't a license issue. If you do not have the commonwealth module, you have none of the files associated to commonwealth units. The PBEM file defines what should be seen, but doesn't provide the models to see them. That has to be accessed from your own computer.

While I expect it is possible to play a pbem against someone who does not have the same modules as long as you are at the same version, it is fraught with potential issues. I agree with slysniper to have the person without initiate the pbem, however depending on whether you are using a scenatio or a QB you may still have issues. A scenario should be safe, with a QB you have to be very clear on what the person with the additional module selects for units.

Suggestion to simplify this is to create an additional install that matches your opponents. It is easy enough to do, you can add a new install of CMBN in a very short time. You are now free to create whatever battle you want with your opponent without module concerns.

[slysniper]

Well, the other easy way to solve the issue is install the game again and just have a CMBN version on your machine also along with the CW. then there is no way to select anything that will be uncompatable.

It is similar as to if you have different versions of the game.

It is just good to learn how to have multible games loaded on your machine

of CM, because at times you will find it is needed to play others because of these type of issues.

[womble]

Thing is it isn't a license issue. If you do not have the commonwealth module, you have none of the files associated to commonwealth units. The PBEM file defines what should be seen, but doesn't provide the models to see them. That has to be accessed from your own computer.

Of course it's not a licencing issue. It would just be nice if it were a bit more like a figures game, where you can take any army you've got the figures for up against whatever your opponent has the models to show up with. It's also an issue that's only going to become further exacerbated as packs are issued and memories fade.

And it's an issue that could be addressed in software. Not (without a lot of work) to allow setups restricted only by what each player has, but to permit only the lowest common denominator compatible elements to be chosen from. One way of doing that might be to patch a full database of all units from all products from the family, including their availability dates and arms, with a flag for each element to show which modules they're available for. Then, in QB selection, or the Editor the ones that are not available to you because you've not got the module or pack would be greyed out, so you can see what you're missing out on (which would drive additional sales). When setting up a PBEM, the first sent turn would let the other player's install determine what the common gearset would be. Elements you might have available in single-player which can't be used because the other player's install won't support it could be listed as crossed out, perhaps as well as greyed-out. And all the selection menus could display a tag (like the game main menu screen does) for the modules that each element is valid for.

Suggestion to simplify this is to create an additional install that matches your opponents. It is easy enough to do, you can add a new install of CMBN in a very short time. You are now free to create whatever battle you want with your opponent without module concerns.

This really isn't a very 21st Century solution, though, is it?

[sburke]

This really isn't a very 21st Century solution, though, is it?

Maybe, maybe not, but it works. It takes only a few minutes of your time and resolves the problem without tying up an inordinate amount of BF's limited resources.

Sounds like a win/win to me.

[slysniper]

Maybe, maybe not, but it works. It takes only a few minutes of your time and resolves the problem without tying up an inordinate amount of BF's limited resources.

Sounds like a win/win to me.

Agreed, there are those that adapt with the tools they have and the world is fine.

Then there are those that want everything to adapt to them so that the world will be great, but they just have it so hard in the present.

The younger people are they expect the software to adapt to them and expect it, It is just the difference in generations. Where as the older someone is, they generally do not mind figuring out how to work with what they have.

Nothing wrong with wanting the software to preform the task, but for the present learning to work with what you have is the best answer.

[sburke]

I am not trying to give Womble a hard time, I understand the desire. It is just that the end resolution would require a lot of work from BF to accomplish that I think everyone, Womble included, would prefer spent on them getting more games out and other features in that we can't resolve ourselves.

I do have to chuckle though that the 21st Century model comment was preceded by an example using miniatures.

This may be one example where BF's insistence on packaging families of games to cover a more limited time frame and therefore a more limited set of options may work out in our favor. Imagine these same issues if we had CM:EF covering 1941-1945 and potentially close to a dozen modules. Yikes.

[womble]

I am not trying to give Womble a hard time, I understand the desire. It is just that the end resolution would require a lot of work from BF to accomplish that I think everyone, Womble included, would prefer spent on them getting more games out and other features in that we can't resolve ourselves.

Some day BFC have to get into the 21st Century with their interface model. I'd rather it was sooner than later. It's just (yet) another barrier to sales, and improving sales has to be worth some programming time allocation. It's not the sort of programming that needs Brain in Jar level of gumption; a jobbing contractor could hack that sort of code pretty economically.

This may be one example where BF's insistence on packaging families of games to cover a more limited time frame and therefore a more limited set of options may work out in our favor. Imagine these same issues if we had CM:EF covering 1941-1945 and potentially close to a dozen modules. Yikes.

Trans: "Cheer up, it could be worse." At best it's an excuse.

[A Canadian Cat]

This may be one example where BF's insistence on packaging families of games to cover a more limited time frame and therefore a more limited set of options may work out in our favor. Imagine these same issues if we had CM:EF covering 1941-1945 and potentially close to a dozen modules. Yikes.

LOL I had not thought about this issue much until that recent post on the Blitz and thinking about what you mention above is down right scary. :eek:

Trans: "Cheer up, it could be worse." At best it's an excuse.

well maybe if BFC said it but for us users it is just recognizing reality.

Look I agree this kind of restricting available units in a QB force picker is the kind of thing that I would have expected to just be there. It already does it for time frame and location so I think it should just be there for modules. But they did not code it and lets face it we know that PBEM and LAN play is a vast minority of their customers. So, the truth is they are not going to spend resources on this kind of thing. Especially when one thing it actually encourages is to have friends get all the modules so this kind of thing does not happen to them.

[womble]

Especially when one thing it actually encourages is to have friends get all the modules so this kind of thing does not happen to them.

However, it makes the price of entry for a newbie "effectively" the whole kit and kaboodle, which, while it's still great value if you know you like it and will play the bejazus out of it, is pretty darn intimidating for those who don't know that.

[A Canadian Cat]

However, it makes the price of entry for a newbie "effectively" the whole kit and kaboodle

Yeah, that is not a good thing.

[slysniper]

I dont know, back in the board playing days. sure seems like SL and ASL managed to keep a market selling expansions just that way.

The question here was the same, so the player has to make a little effort to play someone who has CMBN only, it works and it is possible, if that is the level of interest his friend has, then there is no more cost or issues. Stop trying to make something out of it just because you want things different.

The present business model allows people options of how much they want to invest in the game. And it works, just not to your standards

[A Canadian Cat]

The present business model allows people options of how much they want to invest in the game. And it works, just not to your standards

True, my standard are pretty high:) To be frank I would have liked this to be handled seamlessly from a usability point of view but, at this point, spending resources on making this better - no thanks. They have more valuable things to do.