Building Clearing

[Aured]

So I just finished the first level of the Task Force Thunder campaign. Only one wounded man vs. 200 dead and 150 enemy wounded. It was the massive artillery support that I got that did the most damage.

Anyway, this mission highlighted a large problem: building clearing. In CM:SF you get these massive, apartment-like structures to clear, and using infantry to clean them out usually results in a bloodbath. If you cannot suppress heavily with massive firepower or destroy the building with artillery, how can you clear them out without taking casualties?

I shelled one such structure half to pieces in this mission, and there were still EI inside. It seemed the only way to do the job properly is to just level the structure completely, wasting valuable time and ammo.

[YankeeDog]

So I just finished the first level of the Task Force Thunder campaign. Only one wounded man vs. 200 dead and 150 enemy wounded. It was the massive artillery support that I got that did the most damage.

Anyway, this mission highlighted a large problem: building clearing. In CM:SF you get these massive, apartment-like structures to clear, and using infantry to clean them out usually results in a bloodbath. If you cannot suppress heavily with massive firepower or destroy the building with artillery, how can you clear them out without taking casualties?

I shelled one such structure half to pieces in this mission, and there were still EI inside. It seemed the only way to do the job properly is to just level the structure completely, wasting valuable time and ammo.

In brief, you can't "clear them out without taking casualties."

If you read up on real-life AARs from battles like Fallujah in 2003, you'll find that even if the attacking side has a massive technological and numbers advantage (as the U.S. did in Fallujah), there is simply no way to root out determined enemy infantry that has gotten deep in "under the floorboards" without risking casualties. Even massive HE doesn't always work -- there are accounts from Iraq and Afghanistan of insurgents somehow surviving inside buildings hit by very large ordnance, and continuing to fight from the rubble.

If you have firepower and/or numbers advantage, with proper tactics, you can definitely swing the casualty ratio heavily your favor, but there is no "perfect" tactic in a MOUT fight like this. Urban terrain has lots of blind corners and other small unit tactical problems that don't have "perfect" solutions. No matter how good your troops are, how much firepower you have, and how well you execute, sooner or later, some SOB with an AK-47 or RPG is going to get a lucky shot off, even if your guys ventilate him immediately thereafter. If you do it right, you won't lose many men, but you will lose men.

If you don't want to risk the casualties, one option you should consider is simply leave remaining infantry where they are inside the buildings -- infantry hiding deep inside a building can't really project fire beyond the building interior unless they move to the outer walls, which will in turn will expose them to your fire. Often, simply bypassing is actually the best option, depending on the tactical situation and overall objectives.

There are some good threads in the Tips & Tricks forum on how to execute assault in MOUT; I recommend them. Just don't expect any tactic, in CMSF or in real life, to completely eliminate the chance of taking casualties in MOUT.

[Buzz]

YankeeDog is correct.

In game I have had massive HE kill most of the opponent only to take casualties by some wounded fanatic guys that I don't spot inside the pile of rubble. "... leave remaining infantry where they are inside the buildings...." or bypassing often works. but as YD said ... don't expect any tactic to completely eliminate the chance of taking casualties.

[Aured]

Thanks for the answers. Next time, I'll just destroy the buildings with the M777s. I had so much artillery I could have annihilated the entire Syrian army had they been present.

[Wodin]

Lots of suppression fire into the building..as much as possible, then move in and try and time it so the suppression fire stops once your men are going in..say move it all to the top floor..then stop. Often the suppression fire alone is enough to get the enemy to vacate in a hurry, you can then pick him off easily.

I always use loads of ammo from my AFV's and MG's to blast buildings with suspected troops in. Infact most of my ammo expenditure probably goes into this sport of thing, esp in CMSF as many scenarios are very mean on the amount of casualties you can take.

[Sakai007]

That's how I prefer to do it in MOUT, lay down so much fire that the enemy vacates their protected positions and are picked off by small arms fire. That is the inherent trouble with being the attacker. A well disciplined foe will not open fire, revealing his position, until the opportunity for getting a kill is very high.

[agusto]

2 more cents on MOUT operations:

1) When you move into a building, always think of what might be on the other side of it. I had situations where i sucessfully moved a squad into a building and had it kill the ocupants just to have that squad shot to pieces by the tank waiting on the other side moments later. Preferably you want to know what is on the other side before you move in.

2) Clear multi-story buildings from top-down. That is the way the hand grenade works best.

[Buzz]

Good advice agusto - think of what might be on the other side of the building you are assaulting. I have had the same Sqaud SPLAT happen to me a few times.

Look at the devastated street in Berlin city centre, 3 July 1945 - WWII

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_warfare

Different time theater but if anything urban combat is more delay much faster in the Modern CM setting.