What about Civilian's in CM serie's

[JM Stuff]

Hi

I don't know if this threat is allready posted.

I know the BIG Hq CM have a lot to do, to realised all ours dream's and game play, that we hope in all details that we want, helped with modder's many many thanks to all of you.

We know that the DDay was a succes, because the Resistance or partisans played a big, I repeat a very big rôle, in this succes, without them the landing in Normandy will perhaps not be possible or a desaster.

It will be nice WHEN it's POSSIBLE, I repeat when it's possible to added some guys to represent small's fighting civilian group's (remember) "Les sanglots longs des violons de l'Automne...).

I thinks in CMSF these guys are present "(guerrilla)" but I don't have this game.

Anyway we can use them in other module or futur module's like (CMIF Bagration), jump in the Netherlands CMMG or late to defend Berlin CMDB and created the "Volkssturm" after the CMBugle release, without forgot to jump of CMJH Heraklion before.

Comment please, stay :cool:don't :eek: to much it's only a suggestion

[Holman]

Partisans don't really figure in the kinds of straight-fight tactical action that CM simulates.

It's true that partisans did a great deal to assist in the liberation of France, but their role wasn't chiefly a combat one. The partisans' job is to harass moving troops, do sabotage, or gather intelligence (none of which CM really models); a shooting engagement with partisans would almost always end with successful disengagement after just a few turns or with a one-sided slaughter. I'm sure there are some historical counter-examples, but they are few.

The irregulars in CMSF represent well-armed (and often suicidal) fighters of the sort seen in Iraq and Afghanistan, but that is a very different kind of war from WW2.

All this might be different on the Eastern Front, but we are not there yet.

[Sublime]

Meh. The more I read about it, the less Im impressed with the French resistance. It seems the most effective Maquis by far were the Communists in Southern France. I honestly think with no resistance at all DDay and the ensuing Normandy campaign would have played out essentially the same way. Even when resistance people gathered key intelligence they were often simply ignored, like the Dutch during Market Garden.

The East may be a different story, but apparently even there the Partisans role is highly exaggerated.

[YankeeDog]

Examples of civilian guerrillas fighting in the kind of larger tactical engagement that CM represents are extremely rare in France and indeed the ETO in general.

The French resistance certainly made some vary important contributions to the success of the D-Day landings and the campaign to liberate France as a whole, but mostly in espionage, sabotage, and occasional ambushes of lightly defended rear area positions & supply caravans than in direct combat.

Frankly, the support and assistance the Resistance could supply in espionage and sabotage was far too valuable to make it worth risking good quality Resistance units in direct combat.

So what you are asking for is largely out of the scope of CM. Involvement by the Resistance would usually be best represented by things like good intel for the Allied player in briefings, missing or delayed German forces due to sabotage of transportation, etc.

The most significant exception to the above would probably be the days immediately prior to the liberation of Paris, when the local resistance did come out in the open and battle German occupation forces directly. Even this was fairly brief, though, and I don't think would make very interesting material for a CM scenario or campaign.

[JonS]

Even when resistance people gathered key intelligence they were often simply ignored, like the Dutch during Market Garden.

Ah, well, there's a good reason why the Dutch resistance was ignored. That reason wasn't true of the French, and they weren't ignored as much. But their efforts were a small component of a massive overall programme.

The East may be a different story, but apparently even there the Partisans role is highly exaggerated.

Yeah. Partisans aren't really my bag, but I've also recently come across a few things that indicate that they weren't all that much of a nuisance to the Germans in Russia. Yugoslavia, maybe?

The French resistance certainly made some vary important contributions to the success of the D-Day landings and the campaign to liberate France as a whole, but mostly in espionage, sabotage, and occasional ambushes of lightly defended rear area positions & supply caravans than in direct combat.

Indeed. And also the spiriting of downed aircrew back to England.

So what you are asking for is largely out of the scope of CM. Involvement by the Resistance would usually be best represented by things like good intel for the Allied player in briefings, missing or delayed German forces due to sabotage of transportation, etc.

You could add some 'colour' to the briefing by saying that the intel came from Partisans or Maquis, but I think it'd be a fictional flight of fancy. The intel from those sources was generally at a higher level, and also much older, than anything that'd be of any use to a company commander.

The most significant exception to the above would probably be the days immediately prior to the liberation of Paris, when the local resistance did come out in the open and battle German occupation forces directly. Even this was fairly brief, though, and I don't think would make very interesting material for a CM scenario or campaign.

And in Brittany, to some degree, but I agree that there isn't much in the way of CM-relevant and CM-interesting material. I understand that the Germans pretty much conceded the hinterland in Brittany without a fight, and instead pulled back into the ports.

[JM Stuff]

ok agree with your explanations enough and close the threat

[MikeyD]

The operative phrase may be "in CM series". You've got fighters in Syria, Mujahideen in Afghanistan. A future modern war - perhaps rival ultra-nationalist militias provoking the conflict? Red-on-red 'militia' battles are possible in CMSF. WWII French partisan activity seems to have been hamstrung by the German policy of reprisals. Is one dead German worth having your entire village butchered and burned? It wasn't until after German officers began fearing being captured by the allies and hung as war criminals that partisan activity got bolder.

[fatehunter]

Partisan contribute greatly at times to the friction of war. Get enough friction and momentum changes.