Need some tips for a Wolfheze Map

[kohlenklau]

Trying to put together a little Wolfheze map. approx 700m x 700m.

For some PBEM QB action.

Sepp Krafft's Waffen-SS trainees against the 1st Airborne lads.

WOODS/FORESTATION IS JUST FOR EXAMPLE RIGHT NOW.

AND OF COURSE MORE BUILDINGS AND HOUSES TO BE ADDED...

I have a lot of great books but still have some questions.

1. cobblestone streets, so, what was dirt, what was paved and what was cobblestone or bricked type roads? a. Utrechtseweg?

2. With limits of the map editor (only 45 degree angle for roads, etc.). I put the railway as horizontal and then sloped the Wolfheze road. Good enough?

3. Anyone got some links to 1944 topos and aerial shots of this Wolfheze area?

Thanks for any help.

[JonS]

1944 topo maps:

memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=gmd&action=browse&fileName=gmd6m/g6000m/g6000m/gct00040/ct_browse.db&displayType=3&maxCols=3&recNum=0&itemLink=r?ammem/gmd:@field(NUMBER+@band(g6000m+gct00040))&title2=Holland%201%3a25,000%20%2f%20prepared%20under%20the%20direction%20of%20the%20Chief%20of%20Engineers,%20U.S.%20Army,%20by%20the%20Army%20Map%20Service%20(GE),%20U.S.%20Army,%20Washington,%20D.C.%20[year].&linkText=Back+to+bibliographic+information

I think the particular one you want is here:

memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?data=/home/www/data/gmd//gmd6m/g6000m/g6000m/gct00040/cs000010.jp2&style=gmd&itemLink=&title=H%20olland%201%3a25,000%20%2f%20prepared%20under%20the%20%20direction%20of%20the%20Chief%20of%20Engineers,020U.S.%20Army,%20by%20the%20Army%20Map%20Service200(GE),%20U.S.%20Army,%20Washington,%20D.C.%20[year].+-+Ginkel,%20Holland

1944 aerial recce photos:

http://watwaswaar.nl/

Zoom into Wolfhese area, and look for string of overlapping squares - each of those squares is the outline of an aerial recce photo, the string of overlapping ones in the whole photo recce mission. Click on a square, then look to the menu window on the right and click on the photo. Right-click to save. You can zoom in on the photos too, although you'll probably have to jig-saw assemble a composite yourself to get it at a decent resolution and size.

[kohlenklau]

JonS,

Thanks. Checking it out over coffee before heading to work...

Shucks, it looks like Wolfheze was in between straddles of luchtfoto rectangles.

Plenty to the north, east, south and west. (WatWasWaar).

none YET where I needed it.

[Maarten]

I was there last Thursday for business. Got on the train at that very station. While I don't have any historical resources to point you to, I can at least verify you have the feel for the terrain right.

Edit: Also, Long time reader, first time poster.

[JonS]

Shucks, it looks like Wolfheze was in between straddles of luchtfoto rectangles. Plenty to the north, east, south and west. (WatWasWaar). None YET where I needed it.

lol - yes I see that now. Sorry!

Edit:

I was just looking at the 1:25k maps 388 Ginkel and 06 NW Arnhem. It looks like your scale might be off a bit. From the Utrechtsweg north to the rail line is about 2km, or ~250 tiles.

The map's index give you a fairly decent idea what tiles to use for which roads.

[PsychoGeriatric]

Do you have Krafft's report on the battle? If not, Pm me and I'll send you a copy.

A rather self serving document, but with lots of useful information on orders of battle and day by day dispositions and actions.

[The Teacher]

Looks like your getting some good info, have you had a look at the Battleground Market Garden series of books ?

[Pak40]

Some 1944 aerials in the Arnhem area:

http://aerial.rcahms.gov.uk/worldwide/TheNetherlands.php?PHPSESSID=l0v7mc5n41inc3h8at517baaa4

Click on Netherlands, then click on Gelderland. The easiest way to find what you're looking for is to click on the "View in Google Earth". Obviously you'll want Google Earth installed if you don't already have it.

[kohlenklau]

JonS,

Well, I started off with my first overlay pasted into the z folder.

An area east of this. It was a google earth bmp. That would have been 2km by 4 km. Still didn't even have Wolfheze, more "Oosterbeeky" ;-). My brain is thinking some scenarios and QB's. After wasting my weekend I decided to just focus on Wolfheze but surprise surprise I still will maybe end up with 2km by 4 km.

"If anything is worth doing, it is worth doing right!"

We need a cut and paste tool for map collaboration over several people.

Teach,

I have OMG Then and Now vol 1, It never snows..., stackpole "Arnhem 1944".

I don't know the one you refer to. Fedex it to me right away. ;-)

Psychogeriatric,

PM sent.

Maarten , maarten, maarten.,.tsk tsk tsk, always a taker never a giver.

Your turn in the barrel laddy. Return to Wolfheze immediately and remain there as I need any photos or measurements!! Get a tape measure and a laser level. If you have friends that owe you favors, call in your markers. ;-)

Oh yes, and how was your visit to the asylum? another ;-)

Eff it all! I really want to make this map!

I figure we got months til OMG comes out.

Webwing!!! Probably already planning either his Monaco vacation or Seychelles....;-)

[JonS]

Well, I started off with my first overlay pasted into the z folder.

Hopefully what follows isn't grandma-suck-eggs, but ...

There is a fairly simple, but easy to overlook, trick with using the overlays. When you create the overlay, you have to know how much land it represents - how big it actually is - in the real world. I've found the easiest way to do that with decent accuracy is to add a picture bigger than I want to Google Earth and get it lined up properly, then add a nice rectangular border using the Google Earth tools that delimits exactly what my CM map is going to include, then printscreen that sucker and crop the image back to the border. Finally, using the ruler in Google Earth, measure how long each side of the border is.

Then in CM save the cropped image to the right folder, then in the editor pump up the size of the map to the dimensions you measured with the GE ruler.

Jon

[Broadsword56]

And -- just to add one thing -- you might want to size the dimensions of your blank CMBN map first, then make your Google Earth bmp the way JonS says to match that real-world dimension.

Reason: I find I can't always create a CMBN map and make it come out to exactly the dimensions I want. Sometimes I have to settle for something a few action squares different in the x or y dimension. Not sure why.

[JonS]

Yeah, I get that too. I think it depends on how big the overall map is as to whether it's worth bothering with though. A couple of tiles +/- on a 500x500m map is probably worth fixing ... maybe. A couple of tiles +/- on a 1500x1500m map though? Meh.

[kohlenklau]

Jonny,

Honestly I didn't even see a ruler tool, I am new to google earth. But I did see the scale line which said 200m and measured it in paint.NET at 105 pixels and the from there got my 2km by 4km rectangle to import into the z folder per the manual. Admittedly, the CM map didn't tweak to exactly 2km by 4km, but close enough for government work.

But with this Wolfheze test I did not do that YET. I worked backwards from the size map I thought I had the energy to accomplish with a blend in of what I thought would adequately represent the tactical situation in Wolfheze +/-...quote unquote

But with Maarten there waiting with his cell phone at Wolfheze station I know we can work this all out.

[JonS]

Well, something is a bit skew-whiff I measure the distance between Utrechtsweg and the railline on the map you've created at something like 63 tiles, or around 500m. That's only about 25% of what I think the distance should be.

Hmm. With your overlay picture, did you crop right up to the edge of the map you want to produce in CM? If you leave any ovelap or border it will distort you map, possibly quite seriously if the overlap is large.

Edit: the ruler tool is under a button on the menu bar up the top. It has the icon of a vertically oriented rule, if I'm remembering right. With that tool you have two options: distance or path. Distance will measure the distance between two points. That's what you'll want to use.

Path lets you place a series of waypoints and GE will measure the cumulative distance along that string of waypoints. I find that useful for measuring the distance of tramps and bushwalks and other off-road activities.

[Broadsword56]

And the draw polygon tool is great for making the border of your selected Google Earth area, so that you'll know exactly where to crop the jpeg later.

[kohlenklau]

Jonny,

Yes, I promise I will do it correctly (CM map dimensions first, then carefully measured google screen shot made as overlay) and then and only then open the Glen Fiddich.

Thanks for the tips on google earth tools. They are probably right in front of me and in English. No excuse like in WaatWasWaar!

Maarten,

Please call me by cell as soon as you get back to Wolfheze.

Grab a long tape measure on the way...

Next question:

I want exit zone objectives for the Brits.

That means no pure QB. Right?

But has anyone ever tried a scenario where both PBEM opponents can edit it with a gentlemen's agreement to not look into the other's side data?

[Pak40]

Hopefully what follows isn't grandma-suck-eggs, but ...

There is a fairly simple, but easy to overlook, trick with using the overlays. When you create the overlay, you have to know how much land it represents - how big it actually is - in the real world. I've found the easiest way to do that with decent accuracy is to add a picture bigger than I want to Google Earth and get it lined up properly, then add a nice rectangular border using the Google Earth tools that delimits exactly what my CM map is going to include, then printscreen that sucker and crop the image back to the border. Finally, using the ruler in Google Earth, measure how long each side of the border is.

Then in CM save the cropped image to the right folder, then in the editor pump up the size of the map to the dimensions you measured with the GE ruler.

Jon

This is exactly what I did for a mosaic of the Son area. It took a bit of adjusting to get the aerial to line up correctly. Also, make sure the options for the overlay specify that it fits to the ground instead of hovering over the ground. I made that mistake and then had to resize it some more once I corrected the setting. When you're finished you can save the result as a KML. I'd like to share my result to the public but I'm not sure about the copyright issues with the site that I downloaded the aerials from.

[JonS]

Yes, I promise I will do it correctly (CM map dimensions first, then carefully measured google screen shot made as overlay) and then and only then open the Glen Fiddich.

Nah, bro. That sequence is complete balls.

Glen Fiddich first.

And secondthirdfourthfifthsixthsevenohgodwherehavemypantsgonethistime :eek:

Seriously: I think it's better to pick the area you want to create first, using topo maps and PR photos and whatever else you can find, then create the map big enough to create it in CM second. The battle you're trying to create should drive your design decisions, rahter than design decisions driving the battle.

[kohlenklau]

Jonny,

Having my coffee....

Absolutely! I am reading more on my lunch breaks and it is starting to gel.

The battle will define the terrain.

I need some east-west roads north of the railway, a bit of the LZ/DZ area as "spawn points" for reinforcements of the Brits forming up for the march. the north-south built up area of Wolfheze, Down accurately to Utrechtsweg. Then the whole thing eastwards...

$hitake mushrooms! maybe it is 3km by 4km. I'll dink around tonight after work.

Dink before I drink. Or vice versa as you recommend.

What do you think about the QB-Scenario hybrid idea?

[JonS]

What do you think about the QB-Scenario hybrid idea?

Custom QBs? I play those a lot and have been for quite a while. They work well, although you need a good and trusted opponent (or a pliable third party), and you have to be amenable to ambiguity in the battle and it's outcome.

Having a third party is ideal because they can throw in some randomness and set objectives for each side, as well as ensuring FOW.

The ambiguity comes from a lack of briefings (although the third party helps with that) and the lack of victory points. But as long as you have a decent opponent that's not too much of an issue - in my experience it's generally pretty obvious who won.

[kohlenklau]

OK, noobie mistake #1, when I previously googled Wolfheze and in google search engine it did show various map stuff. Quite a bit but no ruler tool. This is NOT google earth.

So I just dl'd google earth.

OK, now I am armed with the mighty ruler tool....

[kohlenklau]

Maarten,

Please don't go back to Wolfheze, I got the ruler tool working!

Well, I created a new special editor overlay. 3216m by 4000.

The height was based on putting Reijer's camp in the upper left corner.

Then just headed south til I crossed Utrechtsweg.

Then width just maxxed out for now. 4km.

She's a big girl.

So now what the heck do I do?

I've got some mismatch between actual path versus what editor can match, 45 degree only, etc. Do I just wing it? For example the railway. Common sense says trains like to cruise along in a straight line. Roads can wiggle more but still have long continuous straight stretches as often as possible. I propose to make the rail way nice and horizontal, tilt the Wolfhezeweg at 45 down to right and make the Utrechtsweg a mixture.

All in favor say aye.

[kohlenklau]

I went into google earth, tilted the map about 22degrees and this made the railway horizontal, then I recut my 3216mx4km rectangle and made a new special editor overlay.

[Broadsword56]

That's the way to do it.

[kohlenklau]

well, there is no speedy-quick draw tool for railroads.

The double-ended arrow button doesn't run a brighter green...

So, I had to hand lay the entire railway. working on the chain-ga-a-aaang.

And the draw tool does not do well at roads at an angle. continuous zig-zag unless I don't know a better technique.

And it badly needs an undo button.

I fumble fingered my first click and second click and ended up with a huge squiggle back across....

Now, plain up and down or left-right and I think it is useful.