LiveNoMore Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Two questions....... Why does an empty bunker allow a player to see enemy troops that are in it's line of sight? It's EMPTY! Why do HT's stop in open fields when they take MG fire? No one killed in the vehicle. It's regular troop with normal motivation. I just had an entire platoon of armored inf mounted in HT's get annihilated by Arty because they all took MG fire and stopped for 2 turns! (OK, I'm frustrated.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Why do HT's stop in open fields when they take MG fire? No one killed in the vehicle. It's regular troop with normal motivation. I just had an entire platoon of armored inf mounted in HT's get annihilated by Arty because they all took MG fire and stopped for 2 turns! Because HTs are not IFVs. Just because no one got killed doesn't mean it's a good idea to keep advancing towards infantry positions. Infantry have weapons that can total a halfie and its entire squishy cargo in one shot. Half tracks are nervous of infantry for good reason. I have to ask why you left the tracks in place for 2 turns in an already-falling bombardment. 2 turns isn't enough time for any mission call, so the shells that fell were at least being spotted for at the time your tracks first stopped. You were unlucky that they stopped in the first place but you did have the opportunity to withdraw them from the danger zone one they'd "refused" at the first attempt. If your opponent was shooting at a TRP and managed to predict the arrival of your tracks, stop them with an MG at exactly the right time for his shells to hit, then that's pretty masterful or fortuitous play. I'm suspecting too that your tracks were pretty bunched up for you to lose all three to one stonk. Perhaps they were travelling in line-ahead column? Causing the following tracks to stop and mill about when the lead halfie balked at continuing, possibly making sorting them out in that second minute difficult. A hard way to learn to travel in echelon when possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Two questions....... Why does an empty bunker allow a player to see enemy troops that are in it's line of sight? It's EMPTY! It doesn't. Fortifications don't spot anything. It's easy enough to test, just put a bunker in an open field in the editor and place enemy troops all around it. You won't spot a thing playing as the bunker. Why do HT's stop in open fields when they take MG fire? No one killed in the vehicle. It's regular troop with normal motivation. I just had an entire platoon of armored inf mounted in HT's get annihilated by Arty because they all took MG fire and stopped for 2 turns! (OK, I'm frustrated.) It's not really possible to know what happened in this situation just from your description. MG fire can penetrate half track armor depending on the MG and the halftrack. If the MG couldn't have had an effect on the halftrack it wouldn't have fired at it, so either it could penetrate the armor or the troops inside were exposed. If they took enough fire from the MG and it's suppression level got high enough then it's possible that's the reason why the vehicle stopped. However, there are just too many variables that we don't know to allow us to give you a more specific answer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveNoMore Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 The empty bunker question comes from my opponent. He has a couple of wooden bunker which had been occupied by MG teams. I killed the occupants with tank fire. They have been empty for about 10 turns. When he clicked on them now they highlight my units that are in the line of sight of the bunker. The HTs were behind a screen of trees that started taking spotting rounds. I had them move forward around the trees to another screen of trees. There is about 75 yards of open terrain to cross. Halfway across they took MG fire from the right side. All three stopped and showed in "panic" mode. They didn't move and didn't let me command them to move. All the while they sat there taking fire. My opponent was in the process of adjusting his arty when this happened. It landed on target. I think my real question is why the HTs didn't move. Usually they back up or head off in a different direction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I think my real question is why the HTs didn't move. Usually they back up or head off in a different direction. What soft factors did they have? The transports rather than their passengers (if they were different), I mean. I've seen some really jittery perfomances by green crews with low leadership: an SPG crew bailing from their Semovente into the middle of a mortar bombardment, just because they took a little (I mean one burst) .50cal fire and there were rivet heads whizzing round the fighting compartment; no one even injured. Took them from OK to Panic in a couple of seconds. If you're using v2.1, with the uprated MG performance, it could just have been the sheer volume of incoming that paniced them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 The empty bunker question comes from my opponent. He has a couple of wooden bunker which had been occupied by MG teams. I killed the occupants with tank fire. They have been empty for about 10 turns. When he clicked on them now they highlight my units that are in the line of sight of the bunker. Do you guys have the latest patches? If so you might want to report this as a possible bug. I think my real question is why the HTs didn't move. Usually they back up or head off in a different direction. Panicked units can't move as far as I can tell, either by your orders or by TacAI orders. And just for future reference, HTs do not provide sufficient cover from MGs and rifle fire, especially from the side. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Panicked units can't move as far as I can tell, either by your orders or by TacAI orders. Tell that to my Italians! Sure, sometimes they freeze, but I think Paniced troops are often also simultaneously Pinned, which will stop them routing, but otherwise they'll run away like Arthur's knights from the Vorpal Bunny when they're paniced. Or reverse if they're in vehicles. Ooo. One thing that might have scuppered a paniced "reverse out of trouble" could be a map with confused "Friendly" edges, or a situation where "away from trouble" wasn't nearly directly towards a "Friendly" edge. Halfies are bbeasts to turn, so is it possible that they wanted to reverse away, but coudn't turn fast enough, or got in each others' way? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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