Romanians and others

[wolf66]

There were some CMAK campaigns/battles on the german paratroopers on crete that were absolutely AMAZING to play ! Maleme me thinks one was called ?

I looked it up and it was "ASSAULT ON LEROS" - An 8 Battle Operation ! Rachi Ridge ! EPIC !

[wolf66]

I know the feeling, but for a different reason. I think the first serious book about the war I ever read was The Rommel Papers, and that set me down a road I've never turned from. NA is just so damned interesting! What a perfect arena: the tactician's dream, the logician's nightmare. So many nationalities and yet the total forces were so small that one can hold them all in one's imagination. Lots of oddball units and improvisations. And all in country that has its own desolate and exotic beauty. What's not to like? I mean other than the sand and flies and lack of drinkable water and women?

Michael

But you got the best fried eggs ever !

[Sgt Joch]

BFC has never said they would not do North Africa. I would not be surprised if we eventually see one. However, they already have a lot of projects on the go and they have already done CMx2 "Desert", its called CMSF.

North Africa is one of my favorite theaters and I spent a lot of time trying to recreate battles with CMAK. It did not work well in CMx1 because of "Borg spotting". However CMSF shows that CMx2 handles open desert armor battles much better.

[wolf66]

BFC has never said they would not do North Africa. I would not be surprised if we eventually see one. However, they already have a lot of projects on the go and they have already done CMx2 "Desert", its called CMSF.

North Africa is one of my favorite theaters and I spent a lot of time trying to recreate battles with CMAK. It did not work well in CMx1 because of "Borg spotting". However CMSF shows that CMx2 handles open desert armor battles much better.

CMAK worked very well for me - borg spotting was necer a problem for me (guess i was blessed) - I just assumed they had radios on tanks and informed the other units accordingly of enemy positions - CMSF - not so much - it felt too much like a heavy weight fight between Mike Tyson in his prime against Benny Hill .......

[Sgt Joch]

CMAK worked very well for me - borg spotting was necer a problem for me (guess i was blessed) - I just assumed they had radios on tanks and informed the other units accordingly of enemy positions - CMSF - not so much - it felt too much like a heavy weight fight between Mike Tyson in his prime against Benny Hill .......

"Borg spotting" was one of the major weakness of CMx1. I know some players prefer it which is fine. I prefer a more realistic system like the relative spotting system in CMx2.

CMSF is in many ways more tactically balanced than CMBN/CMFI. The Coalition forces are usually outnumbered and their AFVs are fragile. The Arabs are liberally equipped with modern AT weapons and each soldier has a SMG. If you are not careful, you can easily lose a battle in 1-2 turns.

[Sublime]

"Borg spotting" was one of the major weakness of CMx1. I know some players prefer it which is fine. I prefer a more realistic system like the relative spotting system in CMx2.

CMSF is in many ways more tactically balanced than CMBN/CMFI. The Coalition forces are usually outnumbered and their AFVs are fragile. The Arabs are liberally equipped with modern AT weapons and each soldier has a SMG. If you are not careful, you can easily lose a battle in 1-2 turns.

Oh I dont know. I don't think it's as bad as people say, but I'd say BN is the most balanced one yet force wise. Both sides have tanks that can kill eachother, similar arty, firepower, etc. It's not like T55s vs M1s, you can fight German armor with your Shermans/Churchills, you just have to be smart.

However I would say that SF is more balanced than say FI, where I feel as of now the Allies have a definite advantage in armor and organic infantry AT ability.

[womble]

...I would say that SF is more balanced than say FI, where I feel as of now the Allies have a definite advantage in armor and organic infantry AT ability.

It's not too bad when you've got Germans: PzIV can deal with Shermans, if on a slightly unequal basis (the Sherman will almost always do some damage to the IV, and its lower MV means it misses just a tiny bit more, but the available armour (even excluding the ultra-rare Tiggers) can penetrate frontally). But the Italians on their own just struggle in the armour department. The HEAT rounds from their 47s and 75s can do a number on Shermans too, but they're horribly inaccurate and very limited in supply. And a 90mm Semovente costs a lot of rarity points, as does any heavy artillery, and the TD is really poorly protected, even for a TD. Except compared to the 47mm Semovente "TD".

I'm starting to think the best Italian infantry formation is the MG battalion, at least in a QB, where the bearers donate their ammo to the gun team before setup. You get 3 handleable separate teams per squad, including HQs. Far more versatile than the unsplittable monstrosities that are the normal "group"...

[Sublime]

I think the best Italian infantry is Guastatori. I played them against an opponent who took Germans. I got 2 semoventes, one I couldnt drive up the mountain due to terrain. (you shouldnt be able to place tanks in spots they cant leave but thats a mapmaker thing) an R35, and the assault engineers.

The semovente got 2 rear hull penetrations on Panzer to no noticeable effect. However by doing human wave attacks with my guastatori I killed the Pz IV and immobilized, then killed his tiger tank. with my brixias and TRP'd artillery I reduced the hill town he was on and he surrendered.

Anyways, like you said, its not too bad as Germans, however it's bad enough. Its a world of a difference from Normandy with schrecks and fausts. Once your ATGs and tanks are out its all over. In normandy not necessarily. The AT rifle grenades suck, I had one squad literally achieve 4 turret penetrations to be calmly MG'd by the Sherman. If you asked me before I ever played CMx2 if I'd rather ride into battle on a Sherman or a Pz IV I would have always said Pz IV. But my game experience has shown that whether in Sicily or Normandy the Sherman friggin pwns Pz IV's. (My experience) Now Panthers are trickier...

[womble]

I think the best Italian infantry is Guastatori.

I was going to take Gustatori in my current PBEM, but then I saw how many Brixias a straight Infantry Battalion gets... [boggle] (18 to save you looking) which is about twice as many as the same points value of Gusties gets you (those SMGs and demo charges are costly).

However by doing human wave attacks with my guastatori...

Yeah, those demo charges were what drew my eye this time around...

[Sublime]

They were very effective. To be honest it may have been luck, but they went nuts on those tanks, way more effective than say the German infantry I had in the AT role the following game. The Guastatori were attacking too, but granted at night. However my Germans were on defense, in buildings, against shermans in the streets and got massacred. multiple penetrations with AT grenades which did... nothing.

The Guastatori have a great platoon setup. You get HQ (lmg), the infantry squad with satchels, an LMG squad, and the Brixia team. Though you may be onto something with your new choice, the Brixias really do the killing. I got a great amount of fire onto my opponent however - all those automatic weapons and satchel charges felt like commanding Chinese troops in Korea or something.

And mind you usually Im the last guy to take engineer troops. These are the exceptions, and the Brit assault engineers. IMO the US engineers and German Pioneers suck compared to regular US infantry or Airborne, or PzGrenadiers or Fusiliers. For one they are predominately rifle only squads with satchel charges. It just doesnt cut it. I also noticed a vast difference in firepower between say Airborne troops with the 1919A4 LMG or Rangers with Brownings instead of BARs to the usual US grunt BAR man's firepower. If the BAR gunner is experienced it can be deadly, but still is nowhere near as effective as having the light .30 browning in each squad. The Airborne also get more thompsons which are fantastic IMO.

Oh and back to the armor: The Pz IV is a close match to the Sherman but at least in FI and BN I think the Sherman slightly superior. Especially by BN, bonus points if it's a Firefly which is like the Allied Panther. The Tiger obviously CAN defeat any and all Allied armor through BN but I honestly didnt like my opponents choice of one - there were only like 6 on the friggin island. You should honestly never see them in FI. Especially also as I was taking the Italians, who have the poorest armor yet fielded in CMx2 except perhaps the Mujaheddin Winning that was doubly gratifying for that. In his defense he kicked my ass in the next battle, a straight US vs German attack, him attacking as US. My ATGs took out about 3 tanks, I shot my artillery too soon, though still did probably kill around 30-40 men with it. and my two Pz IVs got killed for 1 sherman. I had about a reinforced company in a small town, which he charged and did a WW2 thunder run on. My Luftwaffe troops got annihilated. This is where I sort of recently lost faith with fortifications in CMFI. I had my men behind buildings or at least in wheat fields around 1000 meters away from his troops and he managed to spot a surprising number hiding in their foxholes to my shock. They had covered arcs and all, and his forces were even distracted by the long range duel with his tanks and my ATGs and their subsequent shelling and demise.

[wolf66]

In his defense he kicked my ass in the next battle, a straight US vs German attack, him attacking as US. My ATGs took out about 3 tanks, I shot my artillery too soon, though still did probably kill around 30-40 men with it. and my two Pz IVs got killed for 1 sherman. I had about a reinforced company in a small town, which he charged and did a WW2 thunder run on. My Luftwaffe troops got annihilated. This is where I sort of recently lost faith with fortifications in CMFI. I had my men behind buildings or at least in wheat fields around 1000 meters away from his troops and he managed to spot a surprising number hiding in their foxholes to my shock. They had covered arcs and all, and his forces were even distracted by the long range duel with his tanks and my ATGs and their subsequent shelling and demise.

Sounds like BF made the germans in CMFI to take over the role of the syrians in CMSF ....... cannon fodder in prettier uniforms

[akd]

Sounds like BF made the germans in CMFI to take over the role of the syrians in CMSF ....... cannon fodder in prettier uniforms

You are joking, right?

[Sublime]

Yeah not true at all. There's no comparison. The Syrian armor isn't anywhere near as close on par as say the Axis/Allied situation. German troops are way better trained as well.

No there's no comparison at all.

[womble]

Yeah not true at all. There's no comparison. The Syrian armor isn't anywhere near as close on par as say the Axis/Allied situation. German troops are way better trained as well.

No there's no comparison at all.

With their subpar armour and unsplittable squads, the Italians strike me as closer to analogues of the Syrians.

[Michael Emrys]

Sounds like BF made the germans in CMFI to take over the role of the syrians in CMSF ....... cannon fodder in prettier uniforms

I can't imagine what you could possibly be thinking about. Care to be specific?

:confused:

Michael

[wolf66]

You are joking, right?

I wasn't serious, just a good humored reaction of Sublimes report what had happened to his troops and that "thunder run" remark which didn't seem too WWII tacticswise .....

[Sublime]

Well they're not cannon fodder. In that case they were, however they WERE Luftwaffe troops, who are supposed to be poorer quality (regular morale, exp., motivation, fitness.)

Unfortunately this example highlighted some of the flaws that still exist in CMx2 which are very noticeable in this situation -

My ATGs did kill a few tanks, but camoflauged like real life I think would have gotten one or two more - perhaps.

And of course city fighting - not being able to peek around corners, tanks not having elevation limits. The elevation limits would have saved me for sure, the tanks were surrounded by 3-4 story buildings in VERY narrow curving streets on a hill top town.

This being said however, the situation is specific to a battle force wise, etc. No one game is the same. The Germans are way stronger than the Syrians - they can split squads, and generally aren't as brittle, and can engage the US in a direct fight, not guerilla style. If anything the game proves that no battle is easy, even against Italians or Syrians, and just shows how very skilled the German defenses were in Sicily and Normandy, and just how good the US and British had gotten at fighting the Germans in the same.

The closest comparison would really be the Italians are closer to the Syrians, and even then its not quite as bad. If you want a stiff fight in Shock Force it's easy though - put US vs US, USMC vs US, Brits vs US, etc. Theres even a stock scenario. US/Dutch (IIRC) vs Germans/Canadians. And it's bloody.