Bradley Dick Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 We crapped in MRE bags when I was a Bradley dick and they're a fairly recent addition to the military. A book I read described the inside of a tank during a battle as "a wet diaper smell of piss and ****." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Wouldn't the methane gas be an added hazard? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerDog Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Wouldn't the methane gas be an added hazard? We used to call those secondary explosions ... Regards, Doug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amizaur Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Where does this telepathic crew communication come from - if I had sights almost on, and the gun was still responding to inputs, it is at least possible I would finish taking the shot even with a bang happening behind me... Well, AFAIK it doesn't work this way. At least, not in case of average soldier. In ALMOST all soldier (tanker) memories I have read, a penetration, described as an "explosion" in crew compartment, which was accompanied by a bright flash of light, sparks flying everywhere, smoke and sometimes a fire, often also wounded or killed comrades - it ment just game over. Sharp end of their present activity, and start of a differen "survival" program. The "fighting" was over at this moment and usually a gunner would not think about shooting even if the shell he had loaded in the barrel. He thought he don't want to die, or didn't thought at all, just the instincts taking over. Many of them can't remember how did they get out. So IN GENERAL the priority was to get out of there. It could be becasue of fear of explosion or burning alive, it could be because they knew that reloading the gun that hit them, and putting another shell trough their tank, would usually take no more than 4 seconds.... Of course, there were exeptions. Humans reactions can vary wildly, as someone mentioned, and just as there are people panicking and becoming useless after first bouncing hit on the armor, there are also some highly motivated people that do not panic, and try to fight as long as they can (if they believe this is right thing to do), even if the rest of the crew is dead, with blood all over the place. I have read about such cases, too. But - again - in general, AFAIK, the reaction was to get out of the tank - if the penetration was serious OR it was highly probable that next penetration is a matter of seconds. The second condition sounds like the case of Sherman in Normandy - if there was a penetration, of even any heavy hit on the armor, it was VERY probable that next penetrating shot would arrive in seconds, in time that is required to reload an AT or tank gun. If they were so lucky to survive the first hit, it really was the best option to bailout, even abandoning a working tank. Because usually they had very little chance to respond in time to PREVENT second hit/penetration... and they could be not so lucky to survive the second one..... I agree that the proper way to judge the game is to collect the statistical data on a large sample of events. I have tried it too (on small-medium scale), and found the average results to be not as bad, as I thought. But strange things happen more often, than one (knowing a bit about statistics) would expect, so maybe the distribution of cases (between no casualties, one casualty, two, ..., everyone dead at once) is the problem. Or maybe there is no problem at all and just my perception is biased. Best would be know the formulas used to calculate the number of casualties but this is not going to happen , so I hope someone would make this large sample of tests and compute the results so we could compare them to known statistics, and see if everything from tanker's memories can be placed somwhere in the results of CMBN model . P.S. I'm sorry for some of my posts being a little chaotic and full of little mistakes. Usually I do not see that when reading it just after writing, and when I read it again a bit later and notice them, it's too late to edit the post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I agree, self-preservation should be a priority in CM2, maybe mitigated if one is Elite or Fanatical and willing to die just for the small chance you could get off another shot. But, since they guys saw their mates get burned alive in other tanks, that would be the foremost thing on their minds. This is one CM feature I have never had a problem with. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Agreed. A childhood friend of mine who does PTSD certifications for the USVA says that a lot of the most horrible stories from all wars, Iraq/Astan included, come from tankers, infantry and the occasional aircrewman trapped in burning vehicles, for reasons that I'm sure are pretty obvious. The WWII and Korea vets had mostly intended to take their nightmares to their graves unshared, but have to tell their stories to a psychologist in order to qualify for PTSD compensation ... it's usually for their spouses. My friend has some pretty amazing history books he could write, except it's all doctor-patient confidentiality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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