noob Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Here is a link to a series of documentaries about the Russian front, it's called Soviet Storm and covers some of the major battles of that theatre, IMO the best computer generated images of a WW2 battlefield yet, lots of details about tactics and the conditions the troops and civilians had to cope with, highly recommended. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wheGNXA5ryg&feature=related 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhmorneau Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I would very like to buy this documentary on DVD but is it for sale somewhere ? Does anybody know ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 I would very like to buy this documentary on DVD but is it for sale somewhere ? Does anybody know ? It was broadcast on the Military Channel, here's a link, there may be information there. http://www.militaryhistory.co.uk/shows/soviet-storm--world-war-ii-in-the-east/about.html;jsessionid=075DFA24F2A2F52B3AC288827A086C3A 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhmorneau Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Already had checked this website out : there is nothing about the series, except the detail of the episodes. No original title, no director, no company, not even a year. Nada. Maybe some of our russian speaking buddies will have a clue ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Just my two cents, but I really don't like docs with CGI and reenactments. The re-enactors/actors can't act, they're usually not enough of them, they're too old, etc., and just end up looking stupid. And CGI, unless it is absolute tops, usually just sux. I much prefer real, honest-to-god wartime footage. But, what burns me about that is most docs show the same damn WWII footage I've been watching for 50+ years over and over again. There are millions of feet of footage from all fronts in archives the world over...can't some documentarians get off their fat *sses and do some original research into "found footage"? Rant over.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Just my two cents, but I really don't like docs with CGI and reenactments. The re-enactors/actors can't act, they're usually not enough of them, they're too old, etc., and just end up looking stupid. And CGI, unless it is absolute tops, usually just sux. I much prefer real, honest-to-god wartime footage. But, what burns me about that is most docs show the same damn WWII footage I've been watching for 50+ years over and over again. There are millions of feet of footage from all fronts in archives the world over...can't some documentarians get off their fat *sses and do some original research into "found footage"? Rant over.... How do you know there are millions of feet of footage ?, maybe they are using the same footage because that's all there is, but i'd be happy to be proven wrong, and could you confirm if you have actually watched the documentary I added a link to or are you just talking about WW2 documentaries in general ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Hi Noob, Each of the major combatants had hundreds of combat cameramen over the course of the war (probably thousands in some cases, but I don't have a source for that number). The Library of Congress has over a million feet alone. (I have to find the newspaper article from 10+ years ago for that, if you insist, but I do have it in my WW II source material files somewhere.) Just take a stroll through YouTube and you'll find TONS of original, obscure footage, and that's just what is in the public domain. Not every battle or operation will have footage particular to it, mind you, but I still prefer original representational footage to CGI. I grew up on You Are There, The Twentieth Century, Victory at Sea, and the like, so I am certainly biased. I did watch the the one you linked...I watch almost every on on the Military Channel. I'm not knocking the information, just the presentation. Like I said, my two cents. I'm entitled to that, correct? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Hi Noob, Each of the major combatants had hundreds of combat cameramen over the course of the war (probably thousands in some cases, but I don't have a source for that number). The Library of Congress has over a million feet alone. (I have to find the newspaper article from 10+ years ago for that, if you insist, but I do have it in my WW II source material files somewhere.) Just take a stroll through YouTube and you'll find TONS of original, obscure footage, and that's just what is in the public domain. Not every battle or operation will have footage particular to it, mind you, but I still prefer original representational footage to CGI. I grew up on You Are There, The Twentieth Century, Victory at Sea, and the like, so I am certainly biased. I did watch the the one you linked...I watch almost every on on the Military Channel. I'm not knocking the information, just the presentation. Like I said, my two cents. I'm entitled to that, correct? I believe your statements about the footage but I want to see more than just clips of the real war, i grew up on clips, but unlike you i'm not interested in seeing more, I want a realistic looking reconstruction of the major engagements on an epic scale and CGI is the only way that's going to happen, in these documentaries there is a noticeable improvement in the CGI compared to earlier efforts, eventually I see a day when photo realism is attained as the technology gets better and cheaper, however I agree with you about the actors in these programmes, that's why I want to see the troops recreated in CGI as well, but until documentaries get Peter Jackson like budgets or the technology gets a lot cheaper i'm happy with looking at the battlefields, heavy weapons, aircraft and vehicles that are created, also i like the way these documentaries analyse and demonstrate specific tactics used, and when they start showing me that a/ Sturmoviks were equipped with cluster bombs and b/ that Russian AT gunners were trained to shoot the guns of enemy tanks as training for the battle of Kursk i'm going to tip my hat to the producers every day of the week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 ...eventually I see a day when photo realism is attained as the technology gets better and cheaper... But it's not just matter of technology. A few days ago I watched a GCI reenactment of the battle for 73 Easting that originally aired on the Military Discovery network. One of several problems I had with it was that it showed the attacking American tanks much closer together than I believe a true tactical formation would allow. I'm talking about the space between them not being a whole lot wider than the width of a tank. Aside from increasing their vulnerability to enemy fire, it looked to me like in the close-in fighting of that particular battle they would be blocking each other's LOF, or dangerously risking it. What I am saying is that the producers and directors of such shows need to go through some conceptual revolutions and start to get a feel for how these battles were fought. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I swear, the closer I get to 60, the grumpier I get! Anyway, I agree with both your comments, noob and Micheal. I did like Battle 360 about the USS Enterprise, but in general the writers and producers in many cases need to step it up. I also agree that as CGI gets better, things may start looking up. When they get this good, I'll be happy: http://player.vimeo.com/video/31202906?autoplay=1 This short cost about $75,000 IIRC, and none on CGI...he did it on his comp (but obviously didn't include the cost of software). But still.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 I swear, the closer I get to 60, the grumpier I get! Anyway, I agree with both your comments, noob and Micheal. I did like Battle 360 about the USS Enterprise, but in general the writers and producers in many cases need to step it up. I also agree that as CGI gets better, things may start looking up. When they get this good, I'll be happy: http://player.vimeo.com/video/31202906?autoplay=1 This short cost about $75,000 IIRC, and none on CGI...he did it on his comp (but obviously didn't include the cost of software). But still.... That was bloody awesome, thanks for posting it, but I do have to point out that if he did it on his computer the imagery is CGI (Computer Generated Imagery) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Yup, that was my point...great CGI. When it gets that good, I'm in! There is a "How it was made" video on that site...I was certain that at least the flight scenes where they were flying low to the ground were shot using real aircraft and a helicotper cameraship or something, but every bit of the aircraft scenes were CGI. Amazing! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 But it's not just matter of technology. A few days ago I watched a GCI reenactment of the battle for 73 Easting that originally aired on the Military Discovery network. One of several problems I had with it was that it showed the attacking American tanks much closer together than I believe a true tactical formation would allow. I'm talking about the space between them not being a whole lot wider than the width of a tank. Aside from increasing their vulnerability to enemy fire, it looked to me like in the close-in fighting of that particular battle they would be blocking each other's LOF, or dangerously risking it. What I am saying is that the producers and directors of such shows need to go through some conceptual revolutions and start to get a feel for how these battles were fought. Michael That's true, i've noticed the same thing about spacing in the Greatest Tank Battle series, so until some producers get really experienced or knowledgeable consultants this sort of thing will always occur, but given the steady improvement in computer rendering at the very least we are in for some stunning realisations of WW2 combat as shown in the dogfight video posted by mjkerner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Yup, that was my point...great CGI. When it gets that good, I'm in! There is a "How it was made" video on that site...I was certain that at least the flight scenes where they were flying low to the ground were shot using real aircraft and a helicotper cameraship or something, but every bit of the aircraft scenes were CGI. Amazing! You might be correct about using real planes but some of it was CGI and when the observer has difficulty telling reality from CGI they are definitely doing something right 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Noob, read it closer ...it was all CGI. That's what is so amazing to me about that movie! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Noob, read it closer ...it was all CGI. That's what is so amazing to me about that movie! Lol..........my only excuse is it's 5 o'clock in the morning here and i've just got out of bed, and as I couldn't resist checking my emails I consequently got involved in this thread whilst being barely half awake 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 You sound a lot like me! But my rant was at the end of a long day...basically the same thing in reverse. On another quick note...is it possible to view your operational campaign set-up? I don't have the proper time in the near future to join, but I'm very interested in how you are doing it. I followed the threads when you were first planning it, but lost track of it and the link in your sig of course doesn't get one to the site. Cheers! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umlaut Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I swear, the closer I get to 60, the grumpier I get! Well, the upside is that once you´ve passed 60 your mood should then begin improving ;-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Well, the upside is that once you´ve passed 60 your mood should then begin improving ;-) Lol, let's hope! I'll be retiring then (late next year) so it really should. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hessian deserter Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Thanks NOOB. IMHO it was an Excellent Documentary on the Russian front. I Personal'y choose not to argue with our self proclaimed, know it all perfectionists, who are having a bad day or are suffering from "'Grumpy old man syndrome" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Thanks NOOB. IMHO it was an Excellent Documentary on the Russian front. I Personal'y choose not to argue with our self proclaimed, know it all perfectionists, who are having a bad day or are suffering from "'Grumpy old man syndrome" In my best Groucho (how appropriate!) impression... I resemble that remark! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 On another quick note...is it possible to view your operational campaign set-up? I don't have the proper time in the near future to join, but I'm very interested in how you are doing it. I followed the threads when you were first planning it, but lost track of it and the link in your sig of course doesn't get one to the site. Cheers! The reason I removed the link is that during the course of running the operation the system has been changed so much the original rules were redundant, once I have perfected the system after the operation is completed I will publish the manual, however I am currently writing up a manual to show players how to incorporate CM into an umpireless H2H operation using a Panzer Campaigns free demo, the demo comes complete with OOB and Scenario editors, this will allow all the participating players to own a version and thus remove the need for an umpire while still retaining FOW, and obviously only to be played with people you trust On a side note, if you wish to observe the operation I am running from one sides perspective I don't see a problem with that as long as you maintain strict informational security, i can invite you to my boxnet so choose which side you would like to watch, once you choose i can give you password access to all the CM battles that have been fought so you can watch them as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLaurier Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Here is a link to a series of documentaries about the Russian front, it's called Soviet Storm and covers some of the major battles of that theatre, IMO the best computer generated images of a WW2 battlefield yet, lots of details about tactics and the conditions the troops and civilians had to cope with, highly recommended. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wheGNXA5ryg&feature=related The english subtitled version was called "Great War". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 http://player.vimeo.com/video/31202906?autoplay=1 This short cost about $75,000 IIRC, and none on CGI...he did it on his comp (but obviously didn't include the cost of software). But still.... Not bad. I thought the bitter relentlessness with which the Englishman pursued the German was a bit overwrought, especially the scene in the woods, but the twist at the end was nice. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Very impressive little production about the dogfighters but as with a lot of aerial CGI, I question the hairpin turns that the aircraft are depicted as making while at full speed. It's easy to do it in CGI but not so much in real life. Much such CGI just seems too immediate in both time and distance, at least as compared to aerial gun camera footage I've seen. As to the Soviet Storm series, I started watching and was somewhat impressed with that too. I generally don't care for re-enactment in such documentaries but this being Russian made, it had a bit more authenticity in my mind. Russians well remember that war and they are pretty convincing re-enactors of it, at least as compared to American ones I've seen. I think a modern Russian audience would actually be more discriminating about such a documentary series. After all, they revere the memories of the dead lost in that war and to this day, most modern Russian newly wed couples' first act after getting married is to go lay flowers on the local war memorial. 25 Million dead a couple of generations ago will do that to you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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