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So I brought this up before, but dont recall an answer.

few questions - I asked Schultzie about this before, and he said as far as he remembered the difference between the two models of these US bazookas was the firing wiring was different, the M9A1 being more reliable to fire. Is this modelled in game? Any other differences between the two?

I also recall reading about the Korean War, and how US troops were initially horrified because their bazooka rounds werent penetrating the NKA T-34/85s. Apparently 'super bazookas' were brought in, designed at the end of WW2 for heavy german armor, and they did the trick. I seem to remember them being 100mm or something.

I dont want a smart assed reply about google, or forum search (which i never can use properly it seems anyways)

I just wanna know about the differences, about the super zooks, and any other groggish info or stories this stirs up

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After reading so many times that the difference between the two was strictly the ignition, it is refreshing to see there were some other differences as well. The M1, M1A1, and M9 all used slightly improved rockets over the previous versions. I am curious to know if the sight will make a difference with the ability for a soldier to hit a moving or longer ranged target. I know the PzFaust3 in CMSF benefits greatly from it's computerized sight, so perhaps the M9 does as well from the reflector sight.

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Hard to say. Would a Napoleonic musket become noticeably more accurate if you attached an Aimpoint sight on it?

I think the other factors count more than the type of sight with Bazooka - estimating the range correctly so you don't over or undershoot, steady hands when you fire it, some luck so that the rocket stays on course etc...

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I was surprised when I saw a live bazooka shot in the show Triggers on the military channel (not bad btw) that you had to basically attach wires and touch them at the end to ignite the whole contraption. Amazing how far technology went from that even to the end of the war, let alone to nowadays.

Also interesting was in the show they had a screen on the zook. It was explained it was a guard against bits of sparks and flames from the rocket. that was interesting too, because I never see those mounted in actual war time pictures.

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bazooka3.jpg

I can see it being difficult to use in field conditions. Would it stay in place or any shape for long when you're lugging the tube along with you? It's a wire mesh so it would catch dirt very easily I'd imagine, and then you wouldn't see through it at all.

Here's instructions for operating the M1A1:

http://www.bloodybucket.com/Weapons%20Company/bazooka.htm

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At first we must clarify the things.

1. It is NOT the M1 or M9 launchers penetrate the armor BUT it's rockets. And both can fire SAME rockets (M6A1 or M6A3 or T12).

M6A1 were the first and can penetrate 3 in homogeneous armor plate at 20 deg angle.

M6A3 were the improved version with hemispherical ogive (A1 have conical one) to prevent shear off. Penetration was the same

T12 rocket have the better penetration (as manual said 'at impact up to 30 deg can penetrate armor of all knowing enemy tanks')

Because in game we have 'AT-rocket' without type I haven't any idea about what model is exactly used. Maybe BF team throw light on this?

2. Two launchers tactically differed only at it's sights. M9 has Optical reflector sight. M1's sight is much simply with rear peep and front 3 studs for 100, 200 and 300 yards. Hope this difference simulated well in the game. Need to be tested;)

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If you pause the game while the rocket's in mid-flight you can see the two types of rockets have been modeled. M1 is firing M6A1 and M9 M6A3. That's how the rez-exploded art is named and they even support official army stenciling that says so :). If anybody ran any range/accuracy tests between the two bazookas its passed entirely out of my memory.

Hah! I just Googled "Bazooka T12 rocket" and the primary reference to pop up was THIS post! :D

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So was the 90mm 'super zook' the m9a1 or...

I was under the impression that none of those made it to the frontline troops in WW II. And in fact, they don't appear to have been issued to the troops at the outset of the Korean War, but had to be rushed to the theater when the smaller models proved ineffective against the T-34.

Michael

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So was the 90mm 'super zook' the m9a1 or...

No; the M9A1 was not the 'super zook', but rather just a modestly improved 'regular' 'zook. While the U.S. probably could have gotten the 90mm 'zook to front line troops before the war ended if there was a pressing need, the fact of the matter is, by the time it was ready for service in 1945, there wasn't. Post-Battle of the Bulge, German armor was a rare beast indeed...

So, AFAIK, the 90mm 'zook did not see service before V-E Day.

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Interesting. I'd like to continue this thread, but I cant seem to think of a lot of other questions about zooks.

So Shrecks! What kind of models? If it was a copy basically of the bazooka why'd they upgrade it to 88mm? Typical German engineering? Couldnt help themselves?

Also why'd the Soviets not follow suit and introduce RPGs or anything until a few years after the war? They just didn't have the technology? I always wondered why we didnt lend-lease bazookas? Or did we? I dont remember hearing about that..

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Germans went for bigger because Bazooka was not all that powerful and tanks were getting heavier each year (and Germans needed weapons that could deal with heavy Soviet armour).

Panzerschreck started off as P├╝ppchen, which resembled a tiny 88mm anti-tank gun with wheels and breech and everything, until they noticed that it could be made into a much cheaper portable weapon.

xgerman_antitank17_puppchen.jpg

Soviets did get some Bazookas, and captured some German AT weapons, but their numbers weren't significant. They relied on 14.5mm anti-tank rifles to the end of war instead, and thrown AT grenades (Germans also had similar designs, and western Allies had the Gammon bomb).

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Don't now much about the details of 'shreck models... IIIRC, the original model had no blast shield, and the user was supposed to wear a fire-resistant hood and goggles instead. But they went to the blast shield instead pretty quickly.

A few 'zooks were actually sent to the USSR; about 5,000 IIRC. Even assuming that all 5,000 of these zooks were actually issued to Soviet troops, this would make them extremely rare on the East Front, given the sheer number of troops under arms.

As for the Pz-60, production on it was just starting in September '44, so it's unlikely they were present at Arnhem, though I suppose it's possible some of the very first production might have made it into action there. Depending on BFC's mood and where they put the cutoff for the end of the Market Garden Module, we may or may not see the Pz-60 in this module (i.e., will they make a hard cutoff at the end of September when Market Garden was over, or will they try to fill in the Oct - Nov. period between Market Garden and Battle of the Bulge, so there is no gap between the two titles?).

Pz-100 actually started production in November '44, so we should see this in the Battle of the Bulge game, as well as the Pz-60.

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Sergei - yeah I know all about libraries and wikipedia and google. obviously ;)

but the best info and anecdotes always come from grogs on places like these - someone will remember a line from a book or a story they heard 30 years ago or something. whats the point of a msg board if every question is met with " look on google " ? wtf are we here to discuss then?

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It's just that it helps to know what you know already and what you would be interested in hearing specifically. You're asking for rather generic information, which is like if I asked you to tell me any interesting facts about women. Now where would you even begin? :D Try narrowing down your questions!

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