Suggestions on op layer for Commonwealth module?

[Broadsword56]

I'm planning on using the boardgame Panzer Grenadier: Beyond Normandy to run a brigade-level operational layer for my CMBN battles once the new module comes out.

I'm trying to decide the best way to mesh the two games. The boardgame is platoon scale, 200m per hex, and has 15 minutes per turn.

Option A (most obvious one I thought of first):

Pick a battalion in the boardgame and cordon off that sector of the map, then just fight that battalion's battle in 4-hour increments in CMBN. After each increment, stop and run the boardgame to "re-sync" things, then resume the next 4-hour CMBN battle with that battalion. (The full Operation Epsom scenario in the boardgame runs 26 hours of 15-minute game-turns)

Any other ways that anyone can think of that might work better? Open to ideas.

[sburke]

I'm planning on using the boardgame Panzer Grenadier: Beyond Normandy to run a brigade-level operational layer for my CMBN battles once the new module comes out.

something tells me you are going to need to figure out cloning to have enough time.

[Cogust]

I think the obvious, and probably relatively easy, way would be to do it this way (stolen from the way they do it in CMMC).

1. Decide on the turn lenght for your operational layer (This will be more than 15 minutes but I think that 4 hours is too long as adjacent fights will influence each others and it will be too clunky for handling reserves). I would say that 1,5-2 hours might be better.

2. Make maps, lots of them, in larger (4x4 kms for example, but could be less than that) chunks that cover the most likely battlegrounds. You don't want the game to stall midway due to not having enough maps.

3. When there is a fight, pick a portion of the 4x4km so that you include all the groundinvolved in the fight and enough depth for a 1,5-5 hour battle. Shrink the map by using the arrows in the editor so that it is no longer 4x4km, but just big enough to support the current battle.

4. Save the new map under a different name, this map is much smaller than the base maps and that will cut down loading times significantly.

5. Add all the units to the new map, be sure to include local reserves and operational reserves that can reach the area in time and has orders to do so if needed. Reserves are of course handled as reinforcements.

6. Play all the battles for the current operational turn and continue to the next. You will have to keep track of units casualties somehow, but it can be handled quite easily with a spreadsheet.

[Broadsword56]

Thanks for the excellent suggestion, Cogust!

To complete this type of operational game in a reasonable length of time and keep it fun, I think one has to pick and choose which battles to play out in CMBN, rather than play out every contact.

So, I suppose I would just run the boardgame until a dramatic situation occurs, then freeze the boardgame at that point. If the CMBN battle runs, say, 2 hours, then after it's over I'd have to resume the boardgame with the uninvolved units for 8 turns (@ 15 minutes per turn) to bring the boardgame back up to date. Any new combats that happen during those 8 turns would just be resolved within the boardgame.

For casualty tracking -- yes, I use a spreadsheet. I've made a Cyberboard module for my Panzer Grenadier operational game, because I like the way Cyberboard lets you attach any sort of text note to a unit counter (great for keeping track of casualties, leaders, logging what the unit has done so far, etc.)

[Cogust]

Exactly, only play out the important clashes in CMBN and leave the lesser ones to the operational game.

[Sgt Schultz]

Or, possibly use a dice roll/random number to determine which battles are fought and which are resolved on the board.

I would suggest 30 minute, up to 1 hour battles. PBEM WEGO takes time.

Two to three Companies per battle with attachments.

[GerryCMBB]

I think A Few Good Men have ongoing campaigns where multiple battles are generated and fought by different pairs. Maybe you have seen this already? If not, you might want to peruse their process.

Gerry

[Broadsword56]

In the HTH battles I've played based on my Saint-Lo boardgame op layer, I've found one needs at least 2 hours for battalion-scale battles. That seems to allow for a nice recon/maneuver phase with realistic tactics, and plenty of time for a clear result to emerge.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

Just came across this.

I too think that using CM to resolve operational games is the ultimate way to use CM. Also... I too plan on resolving most contacts at the operational level. This also leaves room for “wing-men...” units controlled entirely by the umpires to add to the realism of the operational setting.

BTW... not all CM battles need be HTH... some could be AI v human player or even umpire v player. With the umpire delivering a certain type of opposition rather than trying to “win”. Umpire delivering a true simulation to the player.

All very interesting stuff...

All the best,

Kip.

[Erwin]

IIRC there was an Avalon Hill cardboard game on Normandy that used Area Movement that would also probably work nicely with CM.

[Broadsword56]

I've started my Operation Epsom-Day One boardgame scenario -- only 15 minutes in so far, but the Scots are following the preplanned barrage, nearing the 12th SS Pz main lines, and will soon be in MG range. Just waiting to see what's going to happen, and when a situation looks good for a future CMBN scenario setup...

[Tactical Wargamer]

I'm planning on using the boardgame Panzer Grenadier: Beyond Normandy to run a brigade-level operational layer for my CMBN battles once the new module comes out.

I'm trying to decide the best way to mesh the two games. The boardgame is platoon scale, 200m per hex, and has 15 minutes per turn.

Option A (most obvious one I thought of first):

Pick a battalion in the boardgame and cordon off that sector of the map, then just fight that battalion's battle in 4-hour increments in CMBN. After each increment, stop and run the boardgame to "re-sync" things, then resume the next 4-hour CMBN battle with that battalion. (The full Operation Epsom scenario in the boardgame runs 26 hours of 15-minute game-turns)

Any other ways that anyone can think of that might work better? Open to ideas.

I am doing the same thing. Using the Battle of Normandy game....It is at the battalion level. Each hex we use a generic style of map. Battles are usually 30mins (beach), 1 hour for inland hexes.

[Tactical Wargamer]

Thanks for the excellent suggestion, Cogust!

For casualty tracking -- yes, I use a spreadsheet. I've made a Cyberboard module for my Panzer Grenadier operational game, because I like the way Cyberboard lets you attach any sort of text note to a unit counter (great for keeping track of casualties, leaders, logging what the unit has done so far, etc.)

Good to know I was using vassal... Thanks

[Broadsword56]

I am doing the same thing. Using the Battle of Normandy game....It is at the battalion level. Each hex we use a generic style of map. Battles are usually 30mins (beach), 1 hour for inland hexes.

How do you find the op board game affects the battles you play out in CMBN?

I've found they tend to make the battles more exciting because there's always something larger at stake. Players take better care of their forces to preserve capabilities (for example, German division won't release an armor reserve because of a threatened breakthrough somewhere else), and more uneven/lopsided battle setups -- this happens because the whole point of operational warfare is to get the terrain, odds, and timing of the battle in your favor before the first shot is fired. Supply gets to play a role when you have an op layer, too.