VladimirTarasov

There are weapons similar to flame throwers being used, for example the Russian air force in Syria are targeting ISIS ammunition/training camps with incendiary bombs which are effective because it brings morale to zero and you have ammunition cooking off in flame. How ever using a flame thrower in the infantry scale is a world war 2/world war 1 thing. Who's going to lug around a flammable back pack in a squad to what tactical advantage. There are weapons like RPOs which provides death of a house in one shot at way farther ranges, it's even effective against armored vehicles even tanks.

Wrong, Russian "propaganda" is saying NATO is surrounding Russia and doing stuff against Russia. I don't think any normal person in Russia believes NATO is going to invade Russia anytime soon, how ever certain countries in NATO are certainly interfering with Russian interests and this is known among the people. If NATO were to confront Russia in Ukraine, it wont go nuclear unless some one in NATO decides that invading Kaliningrad is rational.

I see what you mean, I just didn't understand. In that case you're totally right.

I know, I was saying there are terrain like this in Ukraine. Of course most of the fightings will be in towns and cities or other important areas it makes no sense for fighting to be in the open.

It is arguable but I see what you mean, of course you can use sattelites to identify troop movements. And this is where NATO has the advantage because of its superior thermal sensors, where it can do operations at night and not be exposed to sattelites where as the Russian Ground Forces will only be able to move at night, engagements at night should be avoided against an enemy with superior sensors in every category.

I'm not saying the advantage will be on the Russian side, I'm talking about how the terrain is. Of course NATO militaries have better sensors. How ever, Russia has enough capabilities to counter NATO advantages and make it difficult for NATO to be able to operate in 100% effectiveness. I wasn't talking about jamming although however, EW is definitely still very capable against certain targets. But NATO being able to effectively degrade Russian air defense systems in a short period is very doubtful, I was reading on a Rand report of how China can pose a challenge in guarding its sea against NATO, also degrading NATO air power to be able to get its mission done in a invasion of Taiwan. I'm pretty sure Russia would be better than China at that. But anyways I'm not trying to open a very large argument, I'm just trying to say NATO wouldn't be flying air planes and ships to fight in Ukraine like how they did in Iraq. Russian defenses are layered, and have multiple systems like S-400s for aerial denial over high altitudes and large areas, S-300 variants to also deny air space, than you have BUK-M(1,2) systems for medium ranges, to defend these systems there are vehicles like Pantsirs and TORs and Tunguskas which can engage incoming missiles against these systems. S-400 and S-300 batteries usually have decoy systems as well. Then you'll have the RuAF that will plug in gaps in air defenses, ect, ect. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying NATO cannot be successful in Ukraine, but obviously Russia is capable enough to defend itself to a certain extent against NATO superiority in numbers and in other areas technology. I think it was Steve that said it once, Russia must be quick to get the desired goals in order to win, the more a war like this lasts the less chances Russia would have against NATO. In optics/thermals certainly NATO forces are the most advanced, how ever there are tactics that can be used to not be exposed to this advantage(if possible if not then Rest in Peace Redfor commander). For example don't engage at night over long distances, where NATO ground vehicles obviously will slaughter Russian tanks, APCs, IFVs because they won't be able to see NATO armor at the ranges NATO armor can see them.

I saw a quick mention of Yugoslavia vs NATO war, Serbs did pretty good with the old equipment they had, how ever it also showed that NATO's aerial sensors were advanced. Serbs also exposed the importance of decoy operations which they skillfully used against NATO forces, however of course Serbia stood no chance NATO was way more advanced and in way greater numbers, and obviously capable enough to destroy the Serb forces. How is that? In other terms in which way do you mean that? In the eastern Ukraine regions there is steppe type terrain (hilly and flat) that lead well out to kilometers of LOS. Basically the dream of Kornets and TOWs, and AT-15s. Also favorable terrain for air assets, and anti air assets. There are also foliage and forests of course which covers LOS and limits it. So LOS that leads well out a few kilometers is common in Eastern Ukraine. However the more west you go the less steppe terrain there will be, which is more favorable for the force that is using the terrain to its advantage, be it offensive or defensive.

Artillery landing right next to a Bradley vehicle would atleast mess up the tracks, and I think 152mm precision rounds that I used against Bradleys or Abrams should be able to hurt the crew under or even kill. Especially on a Bradley, in the same scenario that cbennet played "galloping horse downfall" I called precision rounds on Bradleys and it reversed perfectly away how ever in other events I was able to detrack M1A2s. In Ukraine, I think it was 2 Ukrainian battalions that killed by artillery barrages in 2-3 minutes. How ever it might have been an MLRS strike I don't think that means regularly artillery wouldn't have the same effects. Artillery is basically a very important part of Russian offensive tactics, and it being underpowered compared to real life makes my job harder when playing as RU in game.

In real life artillery is way more devastating than CMBS. Instead of poking out and shooting in real life a FO from a recon unit could sneak up onto that hill and grid in the entire town. In CBMS artillery is very underpowered IMO. Also the tank shoot and scoot tactic could work atleast once or twice as long as he isn't spotted how ever if he is spotted US troops could easily zero in on the hill and get artillery to pound it to nothing. Of course in real life things would play out very different how ever, it's not too far off from reality. I also wish in CMBS that infantry can run at a jog speed with weapons aimed and also be able to peak corners also I'd love for them to fix the aiming of soldiers, especially for LMGs. LMGs in game fire at one spot in medium bursts, where as in reality (speaking for Russian army wise idk US training for LMGs) it would be long bursts over a small area to ensure suppression and fast kills.

I'd totally want to shoot a match in RT as it's all I play. But I'm on vacation (no pun) and my gaming PC is back home. RT is indeed only for hard core men, who cares about replays and seeing things explode.

God forgive but that made me spill water on my laptop... But seriously, I hope God eases the pain of the families of the victims. I know what it is like to lose family, and it is horrible.

Well okay... no harsh feelings.

Kinophile let's be honest here, there are 3 plausible causes for this downing, 1. Separatist crew without being attached to any Russian Military units shot this down assuming it was a Ukrainian military aircraft. 2. Ukraine downed it to blame separatists. 3. A Russian battery with access to Russian command in order to receive the order to shoot it down did it. Now from common sense, the 1st one makes the most sense out of it. This does not make the Russian military responsible for it if it is true. There were also Ukrainian air defense battalions near the area as well. And Russian military AD was near by as well, although I'm not sure if there were BUK units near enough to bring it down it is still possible. No matter all the links you show me there will always be a cloud around the incident. And take my word on it, if the Separatists did down it I will condemn them same as anyone else, for taking out a plane at that altitude flying at high speed toward the Russian border. But this will not change the fact that the Ukrainian military has committed murder in Donbas, be it accidental or not there have been a very large amount of people killed by their actions. And that is not to say Separatists have not but there's is far less, as they were mostly on the defensive, and according to them against a government they didn't get a say in. And most people I've seen from Donetsk (be it on video or person) agree with the cause. And then there are whole peoples who don't want any of it to happen, which support neither side. I was watching a Vice video (which I don't anymore because I'm annoyed with some guy named Simon on there ) when the Separatists take the town she supports them, when the Ukrainians take the town she supports them. And in most cases this is what is happening in Donbas.

Russia is currently on the path of building itself, we are no Soviet Union anymore. Russia has greatly improved since the 1990s, and most of this is due to Putin. I myself can say I admire him, and am glad to have him as a president. Although, of course he is not an angel, but a politician with a set of goals in his mind. If you say that Russian arguments about Ukraine are less valid than denying the holocaust then I have no clue what to say. As for us planting bitter fruit for our children, I don't think we are. If we will have to face sanctions and hatred to achieve goals of Russian interests so be it. We've survived as an ethnicity over hundreds of years, and we will continue to. However, I enjoy having "Western" friends and learning their culture and languages. And contrary to what the media shows, Russians and Europeans or Americans get along. And I'm glad politics have not done anything in that aspect.

Your first point; that's what I said, under Ukrainian law the Crimean referendum was illegal, so OSCE monitors were not allowed (not permitted as I said) Your second point; OSCE on March 10th was invited, and they did not come to monitor the results. So you'll send military monitors instead? 100% incorrect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_status_referendum,_2014 go to the picture of the Ballot and next to it in english it says what the choices are. Sure yes if someone like the Tzar is starving the people, putting them through a war which killed hundreds of thousands for no reason, then you may have a revolt. But Yanukovich's only mistake was to appose the EU deal. Russia had a base it rented there with thousands of troops, I'm sure Yanukovich told Putin he will be fleeing to Russia, and that's when troops were given their objectives. Russia was allowed to have 25,000 troops, and 132 armored vehicles in Crimea. These units were the bulk that were used, so it was not Berkut who paved the road. I'll give you this one, but Russia isn't suing Ukraine over gas debt it has which is worth a lot of money, of course other then the usual threats too. People also turned their eyes when NATO was using DU and cluster munition in Iraq, Russian forces are striking areas where terrorists have been occupying for years. Of course I still don't think that one loss of innocent life is right, and if it happens I indeed feel sorry for the victims. Well its propaganda at work, obviously not intentionally citizens have been killed. US also hides the true figures of innocence killed from operations, how ever I'm 100% sure it isn't intentional as the US government has goals not psychotic blood thirsts. And I say this from sources of strikes in Iraq and Afghanistan, where innocents have been killed by air strikes. (not saying on purpose as the US uses precision weaponry way more than Russia can afford to) Steve, as this being your forum I appreciate the fact you let me argue on here, I know of other forums where you get instantly banned even though the moderators talk politics but with that out of the way, This is a very cloudy subject and I can provide links and evidence you'll consider them false. You'll provide links and evidence and I'll consider them false. Although yes Ukrainian oligarchs indeed supported the DPR/LPR but I'd think this because they were sympathetic, and also probably to gain some points from Russia. Rebels were also armed by oligarchs in Russia, who sent equipment and clothing directly from surplus shops. The Russian government of course also did arm them, train them, and advise them. I'm not denying that Russian volunteers, or Russian citizens were fighting in Donbas, although the Donbas army (I'm calling it an army you call them a terrorist organization) is around 30,000 active troops and a large reserve force. Which people have signed up for by the way. There was an account of a guy leading the group that brought out an AK, and his claim was they were provoked by the opposing group which also had a weapon. Now who am I to believe here? I believe none because I'm sure the truth is in between. But if you are saying this justifies the killing of over 40 plus and injuring of way more I don't understand why you would. And this is why I ignore it, it's because my sources show me otherwise your sources show you otherwise. If I wont agree and you wont agree on mine I see no point in going on about it. So Steve, I'd prefer talking about military related topics more so than politics. and once again I appreciate you letting me argue on here with you. Definitely can't wait till you release some modules for CMBS. I am getting fatigued from political arguments on every military related forum I'm on, although arguments like this help me to see events less bias, and that is why they are good.

I'm not going to argue you with you on the support of Crimeans of joining the Russian Federation. Although what you propose is honestly what should happen, it will put NATO bases even closer to Russian missile strikes. and you indeed do have strong feelings on the issue, are you of Ukrainian descent? If so I can be considered Ukrainian too. Maybe I am a traitor? Also a life size poster of Savchenko flipping off Russia? What do you want the Russian border guards to post up a life size picture of Putin with the captions of "Crimea river" obviously if you have humor it is a joke for "Cry me a river"

Sburke, your link from washington post doesn't debunk that a vast majority of Crimeans supported this transition. If what it said is true that only 15% of people voted in favor, then I mean obviously it is impractical that the Russian government could still be there, and still enjoy so much support, and people are all Russian citizens there now. So I don't see Crimea going back to Ukraine ever being a possibility.

I usually lead out some recon guys if my UAVs don't see any armored vehicles on where I'll be assaulting from. If I take fire, I rush in IFVs or tanks in support. Although if I know I'll be facing a US force with Javelins and ATGMs, I level out whole complexes that will pose a threat to my vehicles.

Yes Stalin did commit this crime, and he was condemned afterwards for it, and Tatars have been called back by Putin's government. I don't get how Russia is digging itself into a deeper hole, honestly you just gave me a head ache. If we go further back in history what the Tatars have done to Russians may far exceed what Stalin's regime did to them.

I was reffering to Crimea not Donbas, the civil war in Donbas is not relatable to the Yugoslavian civil war, where ethnic groups committed genocide against each other. Be it Serbians doing it (which they did) or Croatians doing it (which they did) NATO did a close to 80 day campaign in Yugoslavia, which supported the separation of many countries including Kosovo. In Crimea there was barely any blood spilled, and it was a fair election. But of course, we don't agree with each other that it was a fair election because you are saying observers were kicked out. They were not kicked out, OSCE refused to come because they weren't permitted too. UN observers couldn't come for the same reasons, they cancelled their trips. 1.2 million people voted to join the Russian federation and 32,000 voted to stay in Ukraine, 81% of people voted which 80% supported joining the Russian Federation, obviously if the people want this there is no law that can stop it. Laws are made by people, and if people want to do something it is totally up to them. The ballot had 2 questions: 1, Become a part of Russia. 2, Stay in Ukraine. It is obvious that the Crimean people on a large percentage agreed to joining the Russian Federation. I also wont deny that Berkut used force, although obviously they were given a reason too. Although kidnapping and murders would fall into a whole other category, it could be SBU, it could be a false flag op, mafia related, another group that is very radical doing it. A lot of factors play into these issues, although this does not give people a right to throw Molotovs and use extreme violence to topple the government. 100 protestors did die, although atleast 15 Berkut police died, and around 70 of them wounded. And protestors did not die from Berkut only, out of no where a sniper opens up on crowds and even on police. Pro Russian media outlet RT was also fired upon, probably some lunatic with political disruption in mind. And even in these riots they clashed with themselves, right sector was the most violent among these groups. But of course, these rioters got what they want, threw on some guy that no one got to vote for. And then we have the mess that started in the East and South of the country. You can argue that Russia added fuel, but obviously people rebelled on their own. Sorry Steve, I am not trying to be ignorant but the invasion for Crimea has been on paper since 2004? So basically a 10 year calculated plan? Russia must have started the EU riots, and toppled Yanukovich to do what it did in Ukraine as well. Russia law wise did indeed do what happened in Crimea illegally, although the referendum results were quite fair. It has not offered Ukraine compensation because Russia did not recognize the new government, and obviously Kosovo didn't pay Yugoslavia what it lost, nor did Bosnia, or Croatia. The ballot had 2 questions, offered in Ukrainian, Russian, and Tatar language. Asking if they would like to stay in Ukraine or go into the Russian Federation. And obviously Ukraine does not own the industries in Crimea as a state, Communism is over. Although, Russia is holding Ukrainian navy ships in docks and still negotiating about them. But I don't think they'll be given back. The SU-25 faced no danger from a ZSU-23 statically mounted as a defensive weapon, If the SU-25 was flying at above 2 kilometers he'd be perfectly safe. Even if he was flying at 500 meters the ZSU-23 poses no threat there are trees and buildings covering LOS. And the pilot was obviously strafing other places not a point target in the video. But yes, deliberately targeting a civilian area with a calculated mission is indeed a very bad war crime and must be punished. "Their children will hole up in basements" Obviously he's referring that his military is using force, to keep these children holed up. To force them to join the Ukraine they didn't get a say in. I'll be honest with you, patriotism played its part on me more so than me being able to determine fact from fiction. This was alway a civil war and it is obvious every where that majority of the forces are locals. The militias barely were having any successes until the Russian military came to help, they were thrown away from the airport in no time, and they were fighting a very lop sided battle. The ATO was in response to militias starting the voting process for Donbas to separate from Ukraine. Which I have no doubt Russia supported. Steve, In Kharkiv Russians and Ukrainians were living perfectly together. In the east Russians and Ukrainians are living perfectly together, In Crimea Russians and Ukrainians are living perfectly together. You say that Russia orchestrated what happened in Odessa, yet over 46 pro-Russia protestors have been killed while way less pro-Ukrainian groups have been killed. What I'm trying to say is, Russian groups are being targeted by nationalists in Ukraine. International law doesn't mean nothing when people are being targeted on mass, be it on "accident" or a tactic to force rebel elements to give up on the cause. Russia will keep supporting the DPR/LPR, if a 3rd assault by the Ukrainian armed forces takes place. For now, its an artillery duel over the borders. Hopefully it will not escalate further, because if it does it will be another tragic loss of life. The only way to stabilize the area, is if DPR/LPR are recognized. It is too late to even offer a re-election. Too many people have been killed.

I'm not going to say that what the Russian Federation did in Crimea didn't break international laws, although a lot of people in Crimea supported this. So internationally yes Russia broke the law, but as long as the people support it, I support it too.

You see, this war isn't the usual proxy war, most of it is an actual civil war. The Russian military part of it is a covert operation aimed at helping the Donbas rebellion to succeed against a new open enemy (New Ukrainian government) that is justified by how ever you can say "Right to defend Russian speakers" or anything else. Let's look at it in Afghanistan, The US was literally aiding and arming now a days Taliban which is a 100% terrorist group, and I support US combating them in Afghanistan. Anyways they were supporting them with weapons, training, advisers just like Russia did in Donbas. However Russia is not doing this to terrorize Ukraine, It is doing it because it has an obvious goal of supporting such rebellion because: 1, Russia just lost an ally (Yanukovych) 2, This country is most likely going to become a NATO member. Of course the war crimes of the Ukrainian armed forces helped justify the actions taken.

Of course if there was an actual Chechen rebellion European states may try, But what will justify it? Do they have their own people to protect? Are they historically bound to Chechnya? Are their own people living there for hundreds of years? No, so there is nothing that can justify any European state supporting such actions in Chechnya. Although just like I said Ukrainians have killed many innocent people in Eastern Ukraine. The Russian government in the first Chechen war also did the same, and even some cases in the second Chechen war, and many lives have been lost to bombardment. But of course "Chechen" terrorists have also committed crimes like genocide in the caucuses, and bombings ect, ect.

Listen IDK what world you are living in, a violent riot throws out a government. And without the say of any other region in Ukraine, a new government is installed which is very pro EU. Of course people are going to rebel, in Ukraine people were working with already below average standard pay. And now its even worse, where is the EU now? Nothing a bunch of Russians and Ukrainians have been killed by this murderous regime. Countless of evidence shows Ukrainian Armed Forces committing war crimes against the people of Donbas. No matter even if there are DPR/LPR targets in urban areas you are not suppose to rain down hell with MLRS, Air strikes, Artillery volleys without precision use or even an accurate firing solution. As you can see from countless of footage of mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters crying over their loved ones. It was not the DPR/LPR who started shelling themselves. Even if arguments against DPR/LPR uprisings are right, what will EU or the rest of the world say to Ukraine about these war crimes commited? Absolutely nothing. And if you are to support a regime installed by this Maidan then there is nothing else left arguable.

BS aside what Russia did was indeed illegal in international law and it was similar to Kosovo, although obviously this rebellion did not start off with full Russian support. There were very few rebels who knew what they were doing and there were majority of rebels who obviously would be considered "conscript" CM wise. Their equipment was obviously rag tag, after the war turned more serious, that is indeed when Russia started advising and small scale arming and training. Yes you are right that this justifies the west's stance politically. Although this does not make what happened in Kiev right either, I was following on about Maidan day one. Police were beaten, rocks thrown ect, ect. At some point molotovs were thrown in. And then what do you have? A puppet of the EU in charge "just until the votes take place." I think it was on maidan where they were shouting, "Kill a Moscovite!" was it not? Steve, let's face it, people in the US know better not to throw molotov cock tails, bring weapons, attack riot police while they block such aggressive walks toward political buildings. Neither FSB or SBU would not be able to use Right Sector as right sector was all about the toppling of the government. I'll agree that the drills could have been to show force against the illegal Ukrainian government, and I'll also agree that some units that took place in the drill were used in Crimea. Although snap drills were planned, and the incidents in Kiev just added onto it. The article just confirms activist leaders being there, every country has its own radicals. Why would these activists have to be sponsored by the Kremlin? I wasn't being literal when I meant politely, its a term used for the "polite green men." obviously they stormed bases guns at the ready with APCs. Although no one was killed by Russian troops. And there are countless of pictures of people posing with the Russian soldiers supporting them, I don't see them being held at gun point. Re Russian cluster bombing video and Ukrainian air strike: That is not just to indiscriminate, that's a poor decision on dealing with a military target. Cluster bombing is effective although terrorists have very large groupings on these city blocks. Which of course would not make it right even if one loss of innocent life is lost, and I would condemn such a bombing from the Russian Air Force. About Ukrainian indiscriminate shelling. This will give you a glimpse at why the support for DPR/LPR got more popular than it should have when it first started. Also look at bombed out houses and building in separatist zones, It was not the DPR/LPR armies that started shelling and conducting air strikes. But Russia did not invade Donbas when Ukrainian military units were first sent over to stop the voting process. Well it was not the separatists that started shelling and doing airstrikes in densely populated areas, without even warning the populace. Majority of those deaths are due to the Ukrainian government. And I don't say this ignorantly, I feel personally obliged to this war as I have been there before and have family members living there, so I am not trying to offend anyone, but clearly even though there were Russian troops in Donbas, Ukraine used extreme force to stop a local voting process and small scale militia force. Which than escalated into a full on proxy war in a civil war. As you can see I'm not denying the fact that Russia sent forces to help the situation although I would appreciate it if you can see that the maidan revolt in Kiev and shelling of urban populaces and denying Russian and Ukrainians rights to choose who governed the country in other parts of Ukraine, Russia has for geopolitical balance and also to defend the Russian and Ukrainian people of the east supported the DPR/LPR rebellions, passively and actively. Why does the Russian government deny supporting the DPR/LPR? Hybrid warfare Because it used up all of its political points for the Crimean land grab. To avoid a possible escalation of events. Now please, do not think I am saying the Russian government is an angel. Obviously it has geopolitical goals in Ukraine, just as any other country. But what I'm trying to get to is that it is helping a side that has been discriminated against, not able to vote for who's in charge, a majority Russian speaking populace. Russia's moves in Ukraine is definitely justifiable amongst Russians and Ukrainians who are in the east or in Russia. You all have good points, and arguing on the internet with westerners has made me think less biased. Although I cannot just accept the killings of innocent Russians and Ukrainians in the east, and that is why I support Russian intervention in Ukraine. And yes a bunch of lives have been lost in this war, but this is not Russia's fault.