Rolend

DD LOL that is a good picture you painted and Memorial Day is fast approaching so that picture comes into focus very nicely. If the patch is half as good as that picture I will be very happy

Ok I will give Rleete credit, he is right. If the Axies owns the entire Med then Malta would die on its own by isolation. This needs to be changed.

One other note is that sometimes success can have an ill effect. Morale seemed to drop in the German army after months of great success in Russia, and this was before the set backs at Moscow. It seemed to many soldiers that no matter how many Russians they killed or captured and no matter how much territory they took there seemed to be an endless supply of both Russians and land. I like the idea of morale in a game but I would think it is a very dicey thing to get right.

Well I do like the system but I think it needs some tweaking. I would think that it needs to be a little more centered around the country in question. Take Russia for example. Mucking up the war in Finland should have a much larger impact on moral then say Italy taking Tunisa. The fall of France was huge because pre war they were seen as the BIG militray power in Europe, even more so then England and when France fell and in such and EASY manner it shocked everyone and that inculded most Germans. So to have a single rule applying to all countries is to me just way over simplified and that is really the only issue I have with it.

Well you could play through 47 just fooling around with Trondheim and call it a draw LOL.

DD ummm you wouldn't be testing the new patch would you??? Just a small hint, how is it looking? As for the OP, yea some times after I finish kicking the Allies rear when I play the Axies I get a pang about what it would have really meant had the Germans won the war in that manner. Then I remind myself that it is just a game, like playing checkers, I am not really making war and killing millions of people in the process and as long as I keep it that way, then I think no harm no foul. If I have to have a habit, and yes gaming of all kinds is a habit for me, it is better then say drug addiciton

Better be carefull there Rambo you are going to start sounding like DD

That really happen? That is clasic, that is how you handle that sort of thing, rather then resort to violence, that turck driver deserves a medal or something

DT yep that will do to. Any place you can breath fresh clean air, see the stars and feel like you are part of things instead of apart from things.

Yep I agree with Blashy on this one, if they add it please give us an option to disable it. I mean where does it end, there are lots of things left out and if we manage to add them all then it will take days to make one turn Micro managing every aspect of a war would not be much fun for me as 90% of your time would be spent in admin and only 10% on the battles. I prefer a game with 90% battles 10% admin.

I am not a fan of banning or book burning, the free exchange of ideas even bad ones is needed. As long as he keeps it polite IMO he is welcome to express his views, besides it makes it eaiser spot the people I would prefer to stay way from if I know where they stand

Oh yea Rambo no doubt, in fact when I retire, which won't be to many years off now, I am moving someplace a little quieter and slower paced. Some place I can breath without bumping elbows.

Bows to DD Which Desert? I been all over the place, spent years in Germany, East coast, Mid West. My folks moved to Nv a few years back so I spend a lot of time in that Desert. Also I love the Utah Canyon area, there is something very beautiful and soul touching when standing in the vastness and loneliness of the desert.

LMAO sooo funny thanks I needed a good laugh, I was kind of dragging today, now I am chuckling to myself with a picture of a yellow U-boat sinking the entire RN with one torpedo

It is funny that we are banging heads over this as I to like the curent system I just think it needs some tweaking. Yes you are right commerce raiding should be a part of convoy itrediction, after all that is why the German surface fleet was built in the first place. After the WWI I think the Germans were smart enough to learn they were not going to beat the RN head to head so they focused in on merchents. Had Hitler listened to Dornitz and put all those surface ship resources into U-boats instead then England would of had a MUCH harder time in the first few years of the war.

Surly it was taken out of context or a bad joke, I can't believe Chris G would believe it was a hoax or post war propaganda. With that said I to would like to know if it will hit before Friday. If not I am not going to cry about it, I would just like to know.

It is funny to me how the Russians were considered such great winter fighters when in fact the Finns kicked the Russians arses taking full advantage of their ability in brutal winter conditions against near 10 to one odds. Yes I do think the Russians were better equiped for such harsh winter conditions against the Axies powers but they certenly were not the best at it

Well DD I understand where you are coming from but I still don't agree. To me to judge some one who has to make an on the spot war decision, without the hind sight of years of history to help make that decision, in the same category with true evil criminals is just plain wrong and way to "can't we just all get along" for me. WAR IS HELL period and that is why it should never be used only as a last resort. I hope you don't have this idea that we can somehow EVER cleanly fight a war. Frankly I am glad it is brutal it helps keep us from using it as a normal tool. Being an old Star Trek fan (the original series not all those touchy feely crap that followed) I remember one show where they came across a race of people who did just that, fought a nice clean war by the rules. The jest of the story was that because it was such a clean war they did not have the motivation to end it, so it went on for generations. War is hell, ugly and brutal and people die. Maybe now that modern technology has made war even more deadly it will help keep us from using it in only the most extreme cases. But if it is used it should be managed in a way to bring about the swiftest conclusion no matter what is needed. Denying the 'enemy' the tools to fight a war and yes that means the people who make the war machine possible, is in my opinion a very proper target of war. Wars are won and lost by the machine behind the troops as much as the troops themselves thus making them a valid target. I know this sounds heartless and cruel that is what war is and if you are going to take part in it then you have to be ready for the realities of war. Personally I think the decision to bomb Dresden was a mistake and was done more for ‘payback’ and revenge then a sound military target but it was a valid war time target and should not be considered a war crime.

Ok John I will give you that, but there has to be some randomness and weirdness left in. War is unpredictable and you have to learn to over come that or lose. If you make the game predicatable you take out that factor.

Exel now that is an idea I LOVE, a lot of tech devolpment ended up in areas they had not intended. Heck was not the German 88, the tank killer in Africa produced to be a Flak gun?

DT well what fun would there be in just repeating history, you need to make it more pro Axies then it really was or lets face it the Germans would not of had a chance. Besides I find historical 'what ifs' a lot of fun.

Blashy well if I was in one of those camps and knew my turn in the chamber was coming I would prefer they bombed the camp, not because it might be an easier death but because I would know a bunch of Germans would be coming with me and that camp could be put out of 'action' for at least while. Yea if I was in one of those camps I would say bring on the bombers. Very few people after the war were put on trial for war crimes involving carrying out the war, they were tried for the holocaust and similar evils. Personally I don't even like the term war crimes as most of those crimes had very little to do with the war. So to lump people who wrongly or rightly made tough war decisions, WITHOUT the knowledge of the past 50+ years that we have, in the same sentence with such evildoers is just plain wrong.

Lars the Germans only had a handfull of U-boats in 41 there is NO way they could of destoryed the RN as you suggest. Now had they the 300+ Dornitz wanted sure they could of made a large impact. So you would have to go back and change pre war decisions not to mention that you would have to give the Brits the same pre war options to build up ASW as they would of seen the Germans building up all those U-Boats Around and around we go.

Very intereting way to look at it, I will watch closly to see how it turns out, having those harbors for your U-boats is nice. By the way I have yet to involve Sweden in any of my games, if you bring them in on your side with Diplo what kind of forces do they get? Enough to help the Finns against the Russians?

Well the history of war shows countless times that luck plays a huge part in the outcome. Now to take luck out of the game will be turning it into a chess game and make it VERY unrealistic. No thanks I like luck in my games and this comes from some one who is very unlucky. One other note, no MATTER how much money you invest in a problem it does NOT assure a return on that investment. Just ask the drug companies who can literally invest a billion dollars on a promising drug just to see it fail. I like the system the way it is, maybe some minor tweaks but please don't take the luck out of it. [ May 23, 2006, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Rolend ]