Rolend

Well it is a sticky problem with no real easy fixes, outside of Sea Lion I think the current system is not bad. So why make a huge change to the game when it really only effects one possible battle in the very early part of the war? Yea I know I was strongly advocating doing so but now that I have had time to think about it I think it would be wasted effort. Maybe there could be a special rule put in place that restricts any landings, say before June of 41, the landing craft have to wait one turn to unload and no armor or armies, then after that the normal rules apply.

DD yep I agree with you and Lars, to late to add after the game is already finished. However that still leaves us with the problem of the Germans being able to pull off Sealion so easy when in reality I think it would of been darn near impossible for them to do it. Increasing the cost and lowering the range just won't fix that problem.

Lars you don't have to go back as far as the Greeks, try WWI and the British landings against Turkey. Yes I agree that the real reason the Allies were able to land in France was their totaly air and sea power. However without good LC the loses would of been so much more and it would of taken them weeks to do what it took them days. Giving Hitler time to wake up from his nap and send in the Panzer. I think that just saying something like, "just put them in boats and drop them off" is way under stating the problem with amphib Ops. just ask any Marine what he thinks of that EDIT ADDED: With a few minutes to think about it you can add the invasion of Japan by China, yea I know the storm is given all the credit for the failure but had they been able to land strait away they wouldn't of been on the boats when the storm did hit. [ May 04, 2006, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: Rolend ]

Yea against a nation that they were not yet at war with and against a nation that had very little navy and air to counter with. Had Germany tried that method of landings in England the RN and RAF would of put some serious hurt on those units long before they even reached shore. See this is the problem I have with the way landings happen now, they don't take into consideration a landing in a hot and contested area. Had the Allies tried the Normandy landings using boats and barges instead of the LC they did use I hate to think of how high the death toll would of been and how much weaker they would of been once they did get ashore. EDIT ADDED: Yes you might be right about that, after all I am not a programer, I just tossed it out as an idea of how to make Amphib Landings a little more realistic and balanced. [ May 04, 2006, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: Rolend ]

Rambo that is NOT my intention at all, and I agree if you don't defend your shores then you can't stop landings. The intention of adding a LC tec. is to mirror history, the ability to have and use good LC was a very important aspect to the allies when it came to Normandy and the lack of that same tec is a VERY large reason why Germany even failed to try an invasion of England.

No but it also does not take a week to send in your navy and air force to dispatch those landing craft. In a turn based game, no matter what the time ref. is, you have to make allowences for balance. For me having real landing craft instead of boats and barges makes a huge differance in the time that the opposing forces have to react to the landings. Thus a 'Landing Craft' Tec tree makes since. The better LC you have and the better you know how to use them makes a big impact. Have no LC tec and it forces you to wait a turn, have a good LC tec and you can land right away, seems like a fair and balanced option to me.

For those saying U-boats could just duck the weather watch a German made move called Das Boat. Excellent movie about life aboard a U-Boat, part of the story covers a week long storm they had to endure and it certainly was tough. Also the U.S. Navy fleet under Nimitz, I think it was Nimitz later in the war road out 2 typhoons months apart, almost all the ships were damaged and a few even sunk. If I remember my history right Nimitz even had to face a board of enquiry for all the damage the storms caused.

Ok well this is my first post on these forums so be nice. I have to agree I think amphibious ops are way to easy, or better put to simplified in SC 2. Historically large scale amphib ops were very tough to do and REQUIRED landing craft made for that purpose when assaulting defended beaches. What is needed is a 'Landing Craft' tech (LC). Level 0) Barges and portable boats. All landings would require the unit to spend one turn in the coastal hex before off loading. The unit could attack but not move on the turn that it landed. Level 1) Landing Craft such as Higgins Boats. Units can unload the same turn they enter the coastal square, units could attack but not move the turn they unload. Level 2) Amphibious Craft such as the Ducks. Units can unload, attack and move on the same turn. With each new level of LC the movement range would be increased, hit on supply and moral lowered. I would also limit the number of units allowed to be in LC mode. Even the Americans with so much industrial might had trouble finding enough LC for all the operations in the Med, the Pacific and France. I would also give Engineers the ability to build Coastal Barriers (CB). Any unit except Engineers landing in a CB would take a random amount of damage and not be able to move even if you have LC 2. CB's would represent mines, tank/LC traps, pre sighted artty etc. I believe that the real reason the Germans needed to have complete control of the air for Sealion was the fact that they had no real Landing Craft. What they did have were barges and portable boats that were slow to move, load and unload. Had they been able to get their troops ashore mostly in tact the English would of been in serious trouble, after all the BEF had left all its heavy equipment in France. This is a fine game and I am having lots of fun playing it, landing craft played a large roll in the out come of WWII and yet it is to simplified for my tastes.