Earl Grey
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Posts posted by Earl Grey
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Funny thing nobody proposed it earlier to ignore him. Now he has got the attention of a lot of people here and might discredit the niveau I always thought this forum had. Pity, that...
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Absolutely stunning! I hope I can come up with a few camo patterns to do your base art justice... (Actually, I was the guy asking for a tutorial
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I just have to ask myself why there's always someone - or, in most of the cases here - A LOT of people who not only read a post of a, let's say, MISGUIDED poster but react in a most pragmatic manner. I ceased that practice a long time ago, because it simply wouldn't prove successful in any way. There's a proverb in Germany, it roughly translates into 'violence begets reverse violence'. I have the imprewssion a lot of people just try to manipulate others or provoke a reaction out of voyeristic delight. Here they find everything they need and much more...
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Isn't that even a division patch on his face cloth? And he's not even using a decent grass mod on that picture...
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As long as the game can stand up to the expectations and promises that were made in the ad there shouldn't be a problem. I like it - reminds me a lot of CM.
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Interesting proposition you have there... Now it would be nice to know what the excact Italian denomination for this "Erbsengrün" colour is...
Anyway, thanks for the information! Wasn't aware of that detail until now.
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Seems plausible the Tiger has been painte in RAL 7008, then... though the mentioned person claims to have painted the Tiger with a Italian air force colour. Interesting...
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That's what I wanted to say, you just came up with the right words.
The truth is out there somewhere, but it is hard to find. I don't think the pictures are absolutely historically correct, just what you said - representative. Apart from that, it is difficult enough to see a camouflage pattern on a b/w photograph at all - most of the time the quality isn't very good or the time of day wasn't very well suited for taking pictures.
Thos above colour chips are a good resource, though we just have an approximation on what the vehicles leaving the factories should have looked like.
Example: New Vanguard 67 (Osprey Publishing) 'Pantzer Medium Tank 1942-45' states on p.46 that the Ambush pattern was painted using RAL 7028, RAL 6003 and RAL 8017 but the dots on the brown and green patches were actually 'pale-grey'. Interesting proposition, though I have to wonder if it was actually true or this is, in fact, not true.
Another source of mine (can't find it right now) states that RAL 6003 actually seemd to be too dark for the ETO, hence RAL 6002 was used in a number of cases.
Though there seems to be no hard evidence for that (apart from that one source), it illustrates one fact perfectly: The tanks were painted with what was at hand and when possible. Sometimes in the factories, often at the front lines. There's even the myth about the Green Tiger of Tunisia - though someone claims to have been the guy to actually paint the tank with green camouflage colour...
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@lucykorwhat: I don't see what you're point is. Why has a camouflage pattern to be unique to be real? Maybe the artist was lazy, but that soen't mean the above pictures aren't correct. The painting could very well have happened ina depot - where it is easier to paint all available tanks in the same patern than to use a different one on each tank.
If those pictures indeed are fake, then show me a publication where there is absolutely no doubt in whatsoever.
I know the website, but I'd like to see the photographs they base those pictures on, too. Just because a website is renowned, that doesn't mean they don't make mistakes any more. The same goes for the book I took those pictures from.
But we're here to discuss our different point of views, and German camouflage is a topic I'm especially interested in. So let's be about it!
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Right, there should exist photographs. Thing is, not all of them are on the web. But I think the times are gone when camouflage patterns were just made up by anyone trying to sell a good book. As far as I understand all the drawings from the book I took the pictures above are based on actual photographs - hence the captions. Though it is often enough very difficult to identify a vehicle on a picture if you don't know who excactly took it and where...
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Point taken. But I didn't say anywhere that I'm proposing a Kursk pattern. The caption just says 'Eastern Front 1943' - might be anywhere, AS WELL AS SEPTEMBER 1943.
Apart from that there is NOWHERE any proof of the real patterns or real colours. Not even on the helmet above. All colour is prone to weather and battlefield conditions. Not taking into acount how the colour was applied in the first place.
Aa far as the artist's rendering is concerned, I have to say I believe them to be as accurate as circumstances allow. Sure, the colours are not excactly those used then. But we don'T know what they looked like in reality. Even a good colour photograph just gives us hints. So, in the end, it's all up to interpretation again.
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Yet there seems to be enough evidence of factory-applied standardized patterns. Let me show you:
PzDiv 'Großdeutschland', Eastern Front 1943.
sPzAbt505, Eastern Front 1943.
PzDiv 'Müncheberg', Berlin 1945.
There also existed standing orders form the Waffenamt to aplly camouflage patterns at the factories, but in reality there just wasn't enough time to do that...
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Definitely not bad. In fact, most outstanding! Thought of doing something like that myself, but never really found the time. There area few real models on the shelf that want to be done. And my girlfriend is complaining when she's building and painting her models and I am not... *g*
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The main problem - for someone like me, at least - is that I don't trust the AI. Not the enemy's, but my own. Dure, in real life there IS no pause button. But inr eal life, you have soldiers that are trained for their job and THINK. They react according TO THE SITUATION. The soldiers in a game act according TO THE PROGRAM CODE. And, in most games until now, the act just plain dumb. FoW and its forerunner had an interesting and good AI. But it had ist weaknesses. LEt me show you an example: 3 enemy guys are attacking my Tiger with their bazookas. They all stand excactly the same distance away from the tank and are firing. The Tiger has enough ammo, isn't damaged etc. But he cannot decide which of the 3 enemies is the most dangerous, because the danger they pose is excactly the same in every case according to the code telling the AI the potential danger level.
Long speech, short conclusion: If the desginers can assure me I don't have to be at every hotspot on the battlefield because I can trust the TacAI to do what real soldiers would in combat, then I don't need a pause button, because I simply don'T have to micromanage every damn unit.
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So I just have to register on the forum to be able to take part in the war? I'd very much like to...
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We are glad to here you're back again. All of us, I'm sure. But, hey, if you're bored again, why don't you go and get yourself a real model?
That's what we do when we're fed up with PC gaming... *g* -
Die einzig vernünftige Ecke in Deutschland ist sowieso da, wo ich herkomme: Fränkisch-Kongo. Und was es da nicht alles Schönes gibt: den Kreuzberg, Fladunger Museumsbier, Rother Bräu, die Rhön, lauter gutgebaute Medelz...
Die Unabhängigkeitsbestrebungen gibt es, nebenbei erwähnt, seit einigen Jahren tatsächlich. Bisher hat sich die deutsche Regierung aber noch nicht an den Verhandlungstisch bitten lassen, weswegen mit einer baldigen Einrichtung eines Königreichs derzeit nicht gerechnet werden kann.
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@ParaBellum: Ich bin Student - mir ist nicht erlaubt, zu denken. Hat man mir schon in der Schule beigebracht... *GPG*
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We all hope there will be A LOT of Addons. Marines fightign Japanese soldiers on a Pacific island would be nice...
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Ja wer hätte es gedacht... Jetzt muss ich ja jede Bemerkung immer zweisprachig abfassen, damit die des Deutschen nicht Mächtigen (Wortspiele sind was Feines!) es auch verstehen...
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Und wie viele Leute hier können das jetzt verstehen?
Aber ich kenne das Problem. Interessieren tut das Spiel ohnehin nur einen Freund von mir, und der hat kein Internet, also ist nicht einmal PBEM möglich. Und da wir beide einen Großrechner haben...
Bin mal gespannt, wie sich das im MP-Modus so anfühlt und ob es machbar ist. Wobei ich mich durch diverse ander Spiele mittlerweile an sowas gewöhnt habe...
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The KT most probably has been immobilized by the airstrike 'digging' the crater and was blown up subsequently because it coudln't be recovered from that postion and/or repaired.
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We can't have everything at once, can we? I'm glad enough the game will be published outside of Russia at all!
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If my memory serves me correctly, 2nd AD (could as well have been 2nd ID) used these uniforms for a short period. It was a test to determine if was sensible to equip all US units with camo uniforms like the German army. Pattern was the same as the USMC used in the PTO.
The project was abandoned when US units wearing these uniforms got repeatedly shot at by their own guys becasue at a distance they very much resembled the peadot-pattern wearing SS troopers...
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Thanks, but no Tanks...
in Theatre of War
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What have we come to, I wonder... Ignorance might be the best solution here. these duscussions are pointless and don't get us any results apart from havign yet another thread where people try killing each other verbally. I always thought we lived in civilised adn educated times, but these conversations seem to indicate otherwise...