Earl Grey

Wooo... Arnhem Bridge? Charles must already have coding nightmares when thinking about all the other stuff! And, notwithstanding the fact that a lot of people ALWAYS complain, something not closely modeled to the real bridge is gonna make too many people unhappy - better leave it out altogether and have people build it from other parts like CMx1... Steve, where's our official anouncement and the first screens?

It has been down time and again, but always come up again. I think he will make an anouncement when (and if at all!) it goes down for good...

Steve, that might trigger some MAJOR conspiracy theories. But it sounds pretty promising and I can't wait to see the first screens!

The problem is that said Hilary Doyle, together with Thomas Jentz, is on some kind of crusade hammering the correct designations of every little piece of German equipment into everyone's brains. Why they are the only ones having access to that kind of information or why no one before ever noticed it, eludes me. So... since we're already talking about the "King Tiger" I from now on refer to the book "Germany's Tiger Tanks" from Jentz&Doyle if not stated otherwise. The first turret - commonly known as "Porsche turret" - was, in fact, designed by Krupp. I think it's called "Porsche turret" because the VK45.02(P) (prototype model) was designed by Porsche and had the turret specifically designed. The "Henschel turret" was designed by Krupp, too - and called that because Henschel got the contract for series production. The "Porsche turret" design was dropped becasue it a number of deficiencies - the biggest being too complicated for serial production, although 50 were manufactured and put on chassis. The simple way wqould just to call them "early" or "late" turret, but I'd rather call tehm "early" and "serial". There is no common or official designation since both were developed by Krupp, but Jentz and Doyle suggest "serial turret" for the later type.

@luderbamsen: Then it's probably the one Panzerfest has posted above. @Gryphon: Too bad there never was such a thing as a "Porsche" turret, actually... and the "Henschel" turret actually was called "Serienturm". And the first turret was somewhat inferior in performance, too.

You don't talk of this one here: That isn't as rare as one might think, actually... Over 100 hundred complete vehicles produced plus about the same number of "installation kits" for refitting exsiting 251/9 in various combat formations... numbers could vary and cannot be properly estimated due to productions issues in the final months of the war.

I wonder how many Panthers we'll see around in the campaign... according to ym sources, there were pretty few Panther-equipped units involved in Bagration - and even those got beaten up badly. Good thing there's other cool stuff around and lots of people will build lots of scenarios with Panthers!

Steve, when are we gonna get an official preview/status update/anouncement/whatever on our most beloved of theatres? Or at least something like a comprehensive vehicle list now that we're talking about it and KwazyDog has spilled some secrets already?

The H and J models, too? Now that is something! But you know what'll happen if you get the Panther G exhausts all wrong again!

As far as I know, there weren't even those few Ostwind deployed at the Western Front (hence the name), but I'll seriously doubt they'll put in too rare stuuf in teh beginning. Another thing that IS interesting, though, is Kwazydog talking about the Hummel making it in as actual model (admitted, not to be taken to literally, probably) - but since when are we talking SP howitzers in the direct fire role again?

You wanna shoot down your own planes with it? There's no Luftwaffe left in 1944 that can really oppose what the Allies can put in the air, so there's no need for those!

Will we see every production variant of, say, the PzIV, too? I'd like to see proper early/mid/late versions of the G, H and J each! Same goes for all production modifications of the StuGIII, JagdpanzerIV/PzIV/70 plus all Panther and Tiger types! And don't tell me it's nonsense, since some of those changes make as much or as less sense as an early or late Hummel...

I confuse it all the time myself! But it's not getting any easier now that Jentz&Doyle have been trying to correct the actual designations of many German AFVs for years and those are only slowly making their way into current literature... Oh, I'd absolutely LOVE to have some of that fancy prototypes, especially the Panther F or the "Kugelblitz". "Maus" can be left out - even the most rookie pilot isn't able to miss that thing with a rocket or a bomb and, above anything else, it's as ugly as day is bright...

Well... actually, the vehicle was called "Elefant" after refitting. And they only saw service in Italy with the sPzJgAbt653, but nowhere else, as far as I'm aware. Flakpanzers in general are a totall different problem: total numbers for all Flakpanzer types are pretty low compared to almost everything else. "Ostwind" 37 vehicles, "Wirbelwind" ~100 vehicles, "Möbelwagen" ~250 vehicles, FlakPz38 140 vehicles. Let's see how well my rarity hypothesis stands up to that numbers and the mecessity of having at least one Flakpanzer in the game...

Well... the way I see it the stuff that's gonna be included (if there are any ideas for stuff already, that is) in CM:SF2 at the time of release is either already in the field and has been used or so "future" that it has maybe not even had a single prototype built. Even the o-so-mighty-and best-equipped-of-all US Army has just so much money to spend on developing new gadgets and AFVs. I wouldn't be surprised to see the M1 another 10-15 years around with various upgrade kits...

I'd rather like to know which vehicles get at all in the first new WW2 CM... I have my suspicions based on certain variables and circumstances, but I doubt we will get anything really rare - or, for that matter, without any notable impact. therefore vehicles like the Sturmtiger won't make an appearance again. Not that we had seen one in BB too often...

Well, since we're already discussing features - I'd like to REALLY get into the action like being one of those little pixel soldiers in 1st person view or a tank commander... I know it's never gonna happen, but one can at least dream. And a proper WW2 tank simulation is still off by a long shot, not even "Panzer Elite" was THAT good! (Sorry for getting somewhat off-topic here.)

Correct, the second one is the same flamingknives posted and the third is the one you came up with. the idea was - obviously - to increase firepower exponentially while reducing the silouhette of the vehicle. And since Germany has had such success with the StuGs they tried it again... without the saems uccess, though. Even less ammo than before, to much strain on almost every part of the behicle, even less space for the crew and so on.

We don't midn as long as we see "CM: Space Lobsters of Doom" one day! :-P Throw in the guys from the good ol' 'StarCom: The US Space Force' and we're ready to do some SERIOUS gaming!

@Sivodsi: I just forgot to include additional pictures to show the difference. In fact, there have been more of this so-called "double-barrel casemate tanks" than only two, all built and tested in the 70s. I'll try to show it comprehensively (although a litle bit off topic - but we can always change to another thread, I guess): VT 1-2: effectively already the second experimental vehicle with 120mm guns instead of 105mm (VT 1-1) GVT?: another of 5 additional "Gefechtsversuchsträger"/combat test carriers (labeled GVT01 - 05), although it is not sure which one of these -> flamingknives post GVT04: obviously similar in appearance to the VT 1-2, although differnece is that the VT 1-1 and 1-2 were built with a lot of components of the experimental MBT 70 and the GVT on the chassis of the Leopard 1. -> sivodsi's post These seem to be the only survivors that are publicly known - you never know what might pop up in a private collection somewhere...

This little baby here is called a "Gefechstversuchsträger" (roughly translates to "combat test carrier") or sometiems referred to as the "Leopard 3", a German experimental vehicle built to test new ideas for MBT design when the T-62 appeared in the Soviet arsenal since the early Leopard 1 variants were inferior at that time. As good as NO information is known about that vehicle safe from that it is still in driving condition and could have achieved speeds up to 100km/h (unlikely). Armament would have probably been two 120mm guns (shortened) with an automatic loader each, frontal armor estimated at 120mm. A similar vehicle is this: Called the "VT 1-1" (105mm) or "VT 1-2 (120mm) built on the chassis of a Leopard 1 in teh early 70s which I figure would have been the case for the above Leopard 3 - although I wonder why they built two different vehicles of roughly the same type.

Ah, I remember that one, yes... But the picture I posted actually is a new version of the 2s19 Msta-S SP howitzer - it is said the two barrels will effectively double ther RoF (or something like that) through a special mechanism that has one barrel firing while the other reloads. Would ahve to look for the article, though. Either way, artillery is off-map, right? Although that baby'd make for one helluva Syrian StuG...

Nice stuff, although I'm missing this fella here: Too bad we won't ever see these ingame...

Maybe the Russian audience voted for Africa...? Or, rather, have terrain that is way more forgiving to coding issues than forested surroundings not even really forested because of said coding issues...

Hey, this way a German player with only PzIVs in his inventory hasn't to go packing the instant an IS-2 shows up somewhere with a skilled Soviet player behind it...