StrykerPSG

The air force wasn't available with koolaid and bandaids, though did at least provide a portable shelter

When we went over initially, and we were less concerned with community relations, we gave a lot of "Stryker lovin" by simply pushing aside vehicles in our way during convoy movement. It's not that it was a free for all, but when escorting logistical convoys from Balad to Scania, there were the odd vehicle borne IED that would infiltrate the convoy column and blow themselves up. So, the lesson learned was to push through intersections and allow no one to pass the convoy. This was generally accomplished by using hand gestures and pointing the M240 or M4 at the driver, but some chose to validate the threat and the quickest, less lethal action was to swerve the vehicle against the oncoming vehicle and simply rip off most of the quarter panels and the odd door. Again, a clear signal that they or anyone else behind were not going to pass.

The way current slat works is no different then some of the bar armor used in WWII against panzerfausts. You basicially have metal bars spaced far enough apart to allow the RPG to wedge itself between the two bars. The RPG then run out of propellant and having not made contact with anything, then detonates prematurely, ensuring there is not enough inertia from the momentum of the round and contact with a solid object to form the lethal plasma cone. That is why there is also standoff from the vehicle (distance will remain unmentioned) and a strict compliance (as can be permitted) with noting stored between the slat and vehicle. As Lt Mike stated, you could not use anything but a metallic material because the rocket is still travelling several hundred feet per second and is propelling a weighted projectile. As for how long it takes to place slat on, it took us initally about 12 hours, with crane support and no pneumatic tools to place all of the slat. It is definitely a depot level application if practical application allows.

Hooahh sir! Then off to Captains Career Course for more education. Do you plan on staying in the SBCT or migrating over to heavy/light side of the house? 82/101st a great enhancer for your career.

LOL, Jon, I now understand what you are asking, which is how would you distinguish the differences between say 1st BDE, 1st IN DIV (1-1 HBCT) versus say 1st BDE, 1st CAV (1-1 HBCT again). The LT may know, having endured months of OBC (or now BLOC 2 & 3) textbook tactics and military graphics classes....... The lack of understanding on our behalf probably arises from some disconnect between your Kiwi accent and your toilets flushing the opposite of ours.....sorry, remembering some of our earlier arguements from years ago.

JonS, I apologize, but don't actually have that answer. Since I have grown up in SBCT's and all OPORDERs have been SBCT, my knowledge base is more limited. I do know, on the vehicle bumper, it's an easy fix, but don't think that's the answer you are seeking. Matt

SBCT= Stryker Brigade Combat Teams, IBCT(Light/ABN/AAS)=Infantry Brigade Comabt Team and last but not least HBCT(Mech/Armored)=Heavy Brigade Combat Team Also see this link, explains the sub units within each BDE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigade_Combat_Team The Army has adopted a system the Marines started a long time ago, Brigade Combat teams. Each BDE is a mostly self supporting entity once in theater that still falls under Division control, but can now be deployed without the logisitical tails of a Division or higher headquarters. Matt Yes, 5-2 is the 5th BDE, 2 ID.

As was stated earlier, there is Afghanistan and one thing not necessarily widely publicized is the Stryker BDE's are hot commodities in theater. The Brigades are highly mobile and very responsive, so much so that they are often task organized to less mobile units for a quick reaction force. Again, this is nothing new or secret, because from the beginning it was their design and purpose to get around quickly and put maximum boots on the ground the fastest. The newer emphasis is Afghanistan and the terrain is much more suitable for the vehicle and it's dismounts. So, a natural path of progression would be to continue to modify the survivabilty and lethality of a proven system. 5-2 SBCT is slotted to leave for Afghanistan soon and I think you will see a transition of full migration to Afghanistan. It has also come up within Army circles that DA is considering expanding it's current 6 Active Duty and 1 National Guard SBCT's to additional BDE's, based on the vehicles popularity ad versatility. EFP's are Explosive Formed Penetrators, very simple and very nasty. Matt

Adam, you'll have to go back to the initial contracting requirements stating the design must be airliftable tactically (C-130/C-17), but with a modular design towards protection. The initial design without slat, is very transportable via tactical means, however, less then practical with the C-130 in it's current guise because of the C-130's wing box limitation. So, yes, you could fly 4 Strykers in 4 C-130's and 5th bird used for the modular armor. Just note, that from a tactical perspective, it's not very practical to apply slat armor in the field, very time consuming and labor intensive. Stryker's can also be transported via C-17, with slat, but again, you can fit additional vehicles without the slat adding another 36 inches of circumference and a nightmare for the loadmaster. As for adding reactive to the current configurations, I would disagree with LT Mike's assessment that it won't happen. I believe it won't happen in our current state of fiscal plannings, but it has been a work in progress for quite some time, more so because of EFP's and unit's will be forced to utilize slat because it's readily available whereas the ERA is not, just yet. I never thought we would see the mounted mortar or MGS anytime soon back in 04, but they're here and working (mostly) as designed. Matt

The photo is showing a manufactured anti-sniper support frame versus locally fabricated supports. You hang cammo netting over the frame, making it much more difficult for snipers to get a clear and unobstructed view of the occupants. The original slat armor did weigh 4000 pounds, however, the newest version weighs half of that. Also, the ERA would greatly reduce the effects of EFP's, much more common then RPG's in country. Matt

Kudos to Battlefront and their testers. I have stayed off this forum for quite a while after the many arguements with CMSF and am elated to see so many positive posts with the new release. I have just purchased it, playing the first mission and too must admit I am equally impressed with the new improvements. The game is a total transformation from the original release and am glad to see that Battlefront and her supporters have stayed the course to see this module released. I can say without hesitation, I will be looking forward to future releases and providing continued support to Battlefront. Thanks again. I would also like to render a salute to Meach and JP76er for making such an offer in today's unpopularity with operations abroad and those serving in support of it. Matt

Are you talking about shadows in the graphics card properties because I am not finding it in the game options? Thanks Matt

Hey all, after a bit of a lengthy official adventure, I came back to CMSF, new GT 9600 video cards and the 1.07 update. My problem is there are no soldiers displayed at all on the battlefield. has anyone else experienced this phenonem? I am hoping there is a quick fix instead of un-install and start from scratch. Thanks and great work on the mods and patches. (Still had internet access, though no playablity) Matt

Well, being a former mortar maggot in a prior lifetime.....until making E8, I can tell you that our main mission for armor with any caliber mortar round was suppression. 60/81mm would have very little effect on tanks, other then cracking optics and potentially wounding unbuttoned crew, therefore causing them to button up. However, the 120mm is a different beast and more then able to disable and potentially kill a stationary vehicle. That was about 5 years ago...enter today with the advent of the mortar fire control system, gps and laser designation from the majority of missions called, and you have phenominal accuracy down to 1 meter. There is also rumor and speculation of a DPICM type for the 120 as well, though there's also been plenty of talk about the supposed swedish round as well. It is safe to say that the 120mm within the game should certainly be portrayed as something more accurate then in their current incarnation, but perhaps that can be addressed in patch 1.08 or so..... :cool:

That's interesting. So you are saying that in the "spotting" phase of a fire mission called in using an RPDA or FBCB2 the first spotting round should be on target like 99% of the time? With today's technology, that is a pretty accurate assessment of current indirect fire doctrine. Gone are the days of bold, shifting adjustments and now mortar platoons are able to lay and fire all 4 guns in under a minute, with phenomenal first round accuracy. Now, defining accuracy, meaning it falls within the about 5-10 meters of the spotted location. This is done through assets like FBCB2, RPDA and MFCS. I'm pretty certain this isn't the case in the game. </font>

Originally posted by Bigduke6: -The LAV III has the same capabilities as the M2/3 for surviving artillery. Both equipped with spall liners and applique armor. -Low precipitation is not necessarily true, again, check amount of rainfall Seattle/Tacoma receive year round. Then google earth Ft Lewis to see how much of the training area is paved. Again, all LAV III's equipped with CTIS to minimize this issue. Wheeled vehicles certainly can become mired, but so too can tracked vehicles. Rocks are far less an issue for LAV III's then tracked vehicles. Tracked vehicles will avoid major rocks obstacles because of the possibility of throwing/breaking track, whereas LAV III's have run flats giving them an ability to continue to move to more suitable terrain to change a tire, if needed. -Flat and open terrain is where LAV III shines, but Strykers are also serving well within the confines of the MOUT environment exceptionally well. The limitation is unable to pivot steer in tighter confines. So, we can manuever in and around trees, just cannot pivot steer. As for barriers, well probably something better suited for a tracked vehicle, but would a tracked vehicle commander run over a barrier that is possibly a prelude for an ambush? But, isn't the role of an APC/IFV to get the primary weapon system (the Soldier) to the fight in the best shape possible? What good is a squad of tossed around dismounts, in a tracked vehicle, who are so intent on exiting the vehicle, that they are unaware of whats going on around them? So are you implying put them in the cheaper, mass produced vehicle and win the wars by numbers alone? Look at most Soviet vehicles, mass produced, with little thought as to it's occupants safety or creature comforts. There are very few nations that want to buy them. They are either given to them in trade or bought because of limited funds available and they are the cheapest equipment for the money. Now, I am not implying the Soviets do not have some great designs, but ultimately they suffer from a flaw of having no regard for the dismount. For Israel to incorporate creature comforts into their vehicles is not as practical fiscally, since they are not an expeditionary force by nature and they are primarily in a constant defensive posture. Israel does however incorporate many more survival features that ensure the Soldier survives the fight, since it is a very limited resource for their country. [ August 28, 2007, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Battlefront.com ]

What truly makes the mortars more versatile now are their multi-option fuzes. The 120mm on near surface burst will clear a trenchline very nicely or a rooftop, minimizing collateral damage. The 60mm is generally just HE and illum, since smoke rounds need way too many to truly obscure. We often used the illum in ground burst mode for marking CAS. The Illum rounds now also now come in an IR variety.

I think the answer to the overall question is how would any vehicle fair in those conditions? Remember, narrow tracked vehicles lack the same mobility in the same conditions as a wheeled vehicle. WWII and Korea, Shermans were fitted with a wider track to negotiate snow and mud. Likewise, the driver of Strykers just deflates their tires to sand mode and increase the overall ground pressure footprint. It's not a perfect system, but it only takes getting stuck once in either tracked or wheeled vehicle to force either the TC or driver to start becoming more situationally aware of better routes. Also, with a lighter chassis weight, the wheeled vehicle would fair better on the less then stellar paved road and bridges.

Flaming Knives, Wow! 51mm is still used? How many tubes per platoon? Whats the range on the system? Just curious, as the range would be the only possible advantage over a 40mm grenade. Not implying I am an all knowing weaponeer, but am suprised that caliber is still supported. Does the British MTOE also have company based mortars too, such as the 60mm or just BN level?

We threw a big party for our insurgents in Tal Afar too back in 04, what a hoot!

Note, the minimum ranges are not how close you can fire near friendly troops, just minimum range for the elevation and propellant charge. The lethal burst radius is as follows: 60mm: 35meters 81mm: 50meters 120mm: 100meters When employing mortars today with GPS, registered guns and updated METT messages, many NATO mortars have the ability to have first round hits within about 50meters of initial reported grid. This applies especially to the Stryker 120mm, which incorportates the MFCS system. Our first round hits were within 5meters each time, fire for effect is standard for follow on corrections. BTW, hand held max range is 1200meters, since the force of the recoil would likely (and generally does)break your hand.

Sorry theWood, just really got tired of being the minority in believing in the vehicles capabilites and BDE design overall. Since the beginning I have fought uninformed or armchair theorists on everything I had to bring to the discussion. It is just truly a lot of energy at times to be the sole defender. That being said, with regards to the vehicles mobility, there are some limitations, mud being one of them, but this isn't exclusive to wheeled vehicles, mud also hinders tracked vehicles, hence the self recovery kit for M113's in Vietnam. The Stryker also comes with a very robust winch and recovery kit as well. Just means the vehicle commander must be smart on not only his terrain but assorted choke points as well. If mud were truly an issue, Ft. Lewis would be the last Army post to showcase Strykers with a rainforest type climate year round. The Stryker does come equipped with a centralized tire inflation system that is phenominal, however, it isn't guaranteed to keep you from bogging down in extreme mud. Cross country mobility is spectacular as well. The Hydrop suspension automatically compensates for harsher terrain. We were able to patrol the Syrian border, off road, covering a frontal area of about 300km each day. There were times, while negotiating some more difficult wadis, but for the most part, we could cover our border section and still pause at multiple points, providing overwatch and security. Paved/improved road and trails, you are quite literally able to do 65-70 without hesitation. The CAT powerplant has great power to weight ratios and at speed, is still a very quiet machine for it's weight class. It does have some limitations within tighter city streets, without it's ability to pivot steer, but front 4 tires turn to give a pretty good turn radius. As for climbing limitations, again, track should beat us, but we have continously climbed up many inaccessible trails in NTC, YTC, here and in theater, that tracked vehicles could not get up. End result was a totally suprised DIRT teams or insurgent that previous rotations left unmolested. While certainly not a "out of the book" reply, these are some of my experiences with the vehicle. I fought the first variant with great success and there have been many improvements on the design I will take with me on my deployment. [ August 27, 2007, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: StrykerPSG ]

So does an tracked vehicle....... :eek:

Big Duke, I promise I wasn't ignoring this thread, but as pointed out, the thread just became way too busy, albeint with some unique perspectives. Admittedly I am not a bean counter by trade, but have some of the answers you ask. The ones I don't know about, I will gladly research and provide, without divulging much in the way of OPSEC. So, forgiveness asked in advance for a fragmented reply. 1. Cost of a Stryker BDE, HBCT and Light BDE? Gotta get back to you on this one 2. Cost of sustainment in the field? Refer to the above answer... 3. # of C130's to transport an SBCT? 1 x Stryker = 1 x C130G/H/J Plan on 18 stryker variants per company x 12 manuever companies per BDE= 216 sorties for Strykers alone, not counting FMTV's and HMMMV's. Nothing in an HBCT transportable by C130 except the medic M113 track, HMMMV's and FMTV's. 4. Cargo ship tonnage for each BDE? Have to research this one. 5. Launchers/cannons/weapons per SBCT? 9 x twin ATGM variants per BDE 2 x Javelin missles per truck x 14 trucks per Co x 12 manuever Co's per BDE= 336 potential missles. (Do not count the MEV,FSV,MCB or CV in javelin carrier count) 3 x AT4's x 14 x 12 = 504 potential launchers. 3 x 105mm MGS x 12 companies = 36 MGS 6. How many launchers available if Infantry are suppressed? 36 MGS's, though can make an arguement for the javelins fire and forget, so continous sighting not required once launched. 7. Tonnage of artillery in an SBCT? I am guessing you mean number of tubes available? 36 x 120mm per BDE. With MFCS, there is a 95% first round lethal hit(+/- 5m CEP). 12 x 81mm per BDE 18 x 60mm per BDE 18 x M198 Howitzers per BDE 8. How many infantrymen capable of clearing a building or trenchline in SBCT? You may laugh, but everyone, to include MGS, Mortar and FO crews must be certified to clear building. 11 man squads x 9 per company x 12= 1188. A conservative estimate because this doesn't count the weapons squad, mortars, BN scouts or command teams. 9. Operational road speed of SBCT? Officially listed as 62mph, though not sure why, because we always did 65-70. 10. Off road operational speed, favorable terrain/climate for SBCT? 35-65mph, depending on terrain. 11. Off road operational speed, unfavorable terrain/climate? A bit tougher to answer, though our only limiting factor initially was inability to use the tire inflations system (CTIS) with the slat armor, though since overcome. Our only limiting issue is extreme mud that would also limit heavier tracked vehicles. However, equipped with a very good self recovery system. 12. How much territory can an SBCT reasonably control, in face of an insurgency? Well, lets take the initial entry BDE that went into Iraq. Our BN covered down on an Air Assaults BDE AO in Tal Afar. Each of the companies then relieved BN sized elements and were highly successful in maintaining situational awareness and control of the same amount of battle space the LBCT BN's controlled. I know this is a bit one sided, SBCT to be exact, but as I tried to successfully tackle this challenge, found the research for the others to be a bit daunting. I am sure there are plenty of pro HBCT's and LBCT's that can bring info as well.

The one thing that bothers me about these fly by night video makers, while over in theater, and being back now, watching their video footage, is simple. Why is the leadership not kicking them in the ass for not maintaining their assigned sectors of security or maintaining situational awareness? Note, while the camera is oriented where the action is initially, down a secure route, inside the FOB, once the VBIED goes off, they re-orient back outside the FOB to film the aftermath of the exploded VBIED. Hmmm, could that have been their primary area of responsibility? More then likely. Could that vehicle have been going for the wall and attempting to enter the compound? Who knows? Anyway, just being a zealot about the meaning of the General Orders we have to recite from basic training, about "Guarding everything within the limits of my post......" Call me a crusty ol 1SG, but I do not think the film maker deserves kudos, more like a court martial.