slysniper

I just finished up this game. this is the old format and I was the americans Here is a example of how the adjusted score will affect it. I ended the game with one objective held, tried for two but it turned into a meat grinder, so I pulled backed and exited my units I had all units exited off the map except for one Half track & one immobile tank and 4 men plus the tank crew. This shows a loss, but my performance was good, not excellent. With the added points, that would make a major result change. Excellent scenario by the way.

LETS SEE, Played at least 400 hours worth in the 9 months I have owned the game, cost per hour is already down to about 15 cents on the hour. So you better beleive I have preordered, no matter what is in or not in the game. It still is the best entertainment I can find for a fix for my love of WWII and for tacical combat.

Other way around, the full squad will take on the worse group attributes at the time they recombine

Yes good points, and maybe in some areas of things I have seen maybe a possible answer. it would help explain the inconsistantcy of seeing it happen within the game. But I doubt that it has been the answer to all of the situations. First I recall that I have seen tanks turn to locations where no one on my side of the map has a ? marks for. And hearing tanks in the game is not there, or if it is, does not work correct either. Because I have seen my infantry many times Have no indicator of any kind with enemy tanks moving by them within 50 meters. They should at least get a ? that something is moving by at that distances. Second, A tanker would have to hear the enemy engine over his own, which he cannot unless it is shut down, not the case within the game, or maybe idle so I will give you a break there. But a tanker can do that at 500 meters and infantry cannot at 50. Face it, they do not have everything programmed into the game that is just like real life. So I would say sound is not a feature either, and if it is, then that programming could use some work on it to. I generally do not get caught up in the fact the game functions as it does, I just try to determine how it functions and play accordanely. But back to the original comment, I still feel that tanks have some funny behavior as to what they see when they should not. Here is another one I just remembered that was really bad. I had a tank moving down the road between two hedgerows at a quick pace. It turns its turret to the right 90 degrees and as it is moving fires thru a gap in the hedge on a enemy tank 800 meters away and hits as it continued down the road. All this was done by the AI. I had no clue that it could been seen from there.Now by your comments, C2 could have played a role in that. But that is still very unrealistic and how the program works could and should be modified.

I just have to bring up one thing that has appeared in the game that the AI does that is really wrong as to being realistic. What I see from time to time is how tanks will swing their turrets to enemy locations of enemy units that they cannot see yet. Most recent example, enemy tank moving through gully and behind building to tank, no possible line of sight. but tank turns it turret towards the threat, in less than 2 seconds of the enemy tank clearing the cover of the buildings, tanks fires and hits what should be a unknown threat. Other example, In HtoH play, I have learned, that if any of my tanks swing their turret without my order to do so, even if I have no indications on the map at all. That for sure there is something out there in that direction and it is also likely some type of threat to my tank, now that might only be infantry. but if it is, it is close enough that it is some type of threat. So in other words, At times I see tanks do god like skills in knowing about units they should not. Now I have played the game tons since it has come out, love it. But I have seen comments about how the AI should not have any special programming to make it better. But this happens on both sides, either computer or human but it is programming that I think should be found and redone as to what is happening. If someone that actually has the ability to do something about it cares, I do have the recent game turn that shows the one example.

really, dont need to worry about it much, the morale hit does not seem to be enough to hurt your units much. Way back when we had threads on how splitting all your units is a way to winning, there was no questions units spit in game play was to your advantage, the only draw back was making sure they would not be to close to each other to recombine, a bad thing if one of the units is already broken. So it was called gamey and cheating, Even Steve finially said that the engine was not designed with that in mind and that splitting squads appeared to be creating advantages that was not anticipated. All good players in tournaments normally will split their squads.

Oh, no problem, but it ties up the 105 arty so no one can use it, At some point it should default back to available since contact is lost, but presently in the game it does not. So In this situation, I have lost the use of available 105 Personnally I do not mind the challenge of maybe not receiving a known asset, but I doubt it was part of how the game is supposed to function.

Lets make this a little clearer. The game is designed when working correctly to show both things, say for a mortar or AT gun, you will see how many rounds it can fire, which will be the ammo it has, plus the ammo of the ammo crew which is close by, if they have rounds. So the gun might show it has 10 rounds to fire, but it might also give you info that it has 2 in its supplys , the ammo crew would then have 8, look at their supplies. If you move them too far from the gun, the gun only will fire its two rounds. So I thought it was something along these lines. You can also see these numbers change when crew members die, so you can at times recover ammo by giving buddy aid. As for a bazooka or shreik, they are only two man teams, but if the buddy has the ammo and goes down, you need buddy aid to get it back, that is all i am sure of. I just had a bazooka team lose the man with the tube, So i made sure his team mate stayed around and gave him aid, when done, he graps the tube. basic game operating concept. But this issue sounds like a bug, but not one that happens in normal play most of the time. Its a computer game, they are buggy at times no matter how well they are designed. I have a ARTy spotter right now that has lost his team mate. He can see the requested objective, he has the radio, but the game is giving me a denied access to the arty now. Other units see it in use, he sees it as a denied request and cannot cancel it. It is a problem, but it does not happen all the time if you loose a arty spotter, just once in a while.

Ok this sounds like a computer program issue, likely just a one timer.

sorry, double post

This is likely the correct answer, If you have him give buddy aid , then maybe the rounds will be his.

Who, let the grogs loose. Can you just answer a question and then leave it alone. Answer, No Just have to turn it into a debate of details

To your question, I feel the answer to your question as to if they act similarly is Simply NO. In the CMx1 format, If you have a squad with a bunch of sub machine guns, and you are in close range to a enemy squad. You can gareentee you will create quick and deadly results. Because the game functions on math and that very high firepower number you would have in that situation. The results is almost not in question. I have seen fire power numbers near 400 points in such a situation where a normal squad might only be high 100's In CMBN, fire power has a factor and if you play your units well, will get the same results. But as many comment, Many other things have factors between the two squads fighting each other, that can create factors that are natural but can be frustrating using the advantage you might feel you have in a squads composition. Back to my first example, In cmbn, that squad with all the sub machine guns should do well in battles under 50 meters. Normally pinning the enemy quickly if kills are not being made. But maybe the enemy squad gets a few good grenades tosses at the start of the battle. You thus might see you team with all that fire power laying on the ground either dead or unresponsive, just waiting to be discovered and killed. So if you do not like having the chances of unexspected results. Stay with the game that plays on math adverages. But if you want something a little more realistic and more uncontrollable, than its time to get into cmbn

Minute 9:00 We are back in portion for the cafe: things are quiet, maybe I did manage to pull a large portion of his troops to the farm. So this time I am not going to hesitate. I will rush a scout and a fire team to the back of the building, in the meantime giving some cover fire at the intersection. But as far as I know, the enemy has never had troops in the structure. Minute 8:00 Well, my opponent is ready to quit, so I figure he has managed to touch all his objectives and has now settled in to whatever defense he thinks is good. But he left me the cafe which was major points and now maybe I can push the fields towards the Northeast, This is such a small battle I cannot recover from my mistake, but if this had been a battle of any size , making the mistake with one squad does not have such a deadly impact. I normally take losses as these without thinking much about it; it is part of doing business. I am so use to doing business with much larger groups on an attack or in defense, I really missed the fact that this could be set up as a meeting engagement and that speed would have been my best friend. Wrong mind set lead to wrong style of play. I still have time to make another field and maybe even more if I dash at the end, he for sure has plenty of troops in town, but if he is an American platoon which I figure he is. HE would have me outmanned anyway. So I am playing a bad hand now, but I will see it out. Minute 7:00 I order some MG fire on the barn at the farm off to the left. My men Have a line of sight there, never know, might get lucky and pick up a kill. So far no sign of his troops in this area still, so I send out my one man team to scout the area and pick up more points, I am getting daring again since I have nothing to lose, plus if the scout has anything open up on it, it would be nice to put it in its place since I still do have 3 MG's that could do some damage, if I could get them on any decent targets. Minute 6:00 So far his guard is down in this sector, I still figure he will win, but he is going to let me make it much tighter if he has not left outpost, I figure he has, but at this point I will make him prove it. Minute 3:00 Now that I have a good view of the area of the battlefield of the first firefight, now I know I am really hurting. I see only three downed enemy soldiers, of course I did see some buddy aid going on before, but I was area firing at him at the time, so don't know if they were successful or not. But he is not guarding the map from me searching areas and grabing points. But I am down to three left on the map, two of which I am very close to, just need to move 20 yards and last about 30 seconds. The third is at the farm, but I might risk sprinting to that, there is a high wall that might give me the cover I need to survive if I somehow make it. My bazooka team has made it to the back of the farm, tagged the objective, so I will leave one last present with them by moving to a location that will allow them to launch their remaining rounds into the farm house as a final present, it's a risk, but I have already lost 17, it appears he is more like about 6, so I will do anything to pick up more kills. If nothing pops up this next turn. I will move the MG's to try and spray a barn at the end also. I have no problem in playing it gamey. Minute 2:00 So far, it appears he has barricaded himself at the farm complex, I might have a chance to inspect every objective. I would question if he has done the same, if not it might be closer than I thought for a score if I am able to do this, but I would think he has someone watching out for my troops, at least near the farm, so making the final objective might be not getting killed sprinting across the field. Last minute, Sure enough, he manages to spot my leaders moving through the hedgerow and kills two, One being me since I am the leader. but I pick up two more objectives with only the farm house having one left, I will sprint two men for it and see if they are dropped or if I get more points for his lack of perimeter protection.My shreck team will open up on the small house, maybe I can get lucky and pick up a kill or two there. Not my favorite battle, but I had fun playing, even if I did poorly.

Minute 19:00 Just as my units make the edge of the farm complex an American GI is spotted running to one of the barns. No surprise, so now I will make a fight in the farm area, at least I feel the terrain is a little more favorable, I would like to get men behind the stone wall if possible, it is about the best cover there appears to be except for the house at the other end which is the direction the GI came from. I am making this too easy for my opponent. Minute 18:00 Well, trying to snatch the wall in the farm complex is out, Since a GI with a Bar is already peering over the wall in our direction. (Game scoring appears to be touch terrain. So now I am mad at myself once again since I was spitting distance from a 30 point and a 10 point area on my initial objective of the cafe. I know I have lost this battle because of my decision on the initial plan on how to approach the cafe building, If I would have went through the field, this would be a completely different battle, now I just want to make a good fight of it, that might be hard to do with the loss of so many men.) Minute 17:00 Things continue to go bad, with no way to get into good cover at the farm, my one fire team is exposed and it appears a rifle grenade finds it mark and 3 more of my men are down. At this point I just want to bug out and let them demote me back to private: but that is not how it is done. So I will leave the 4 men at the farm to fend for themselves and maybe they will manage to ambush someone if they stay hidden. I will go back to the cafe and by this point will likely get shot trying to move back to towards it, but that will be better than going back to the court marshal that I deserve. Minute 16:00 Not much to hope for at this point, but I am glad to see at least one more GI will not be writing home about what he did to us over here. Minute 15:00 Other than shuffle MG teams a little to place those with ammo where I want and having to stop my personal fire because I am almost out of ammo. Nothing more to report. I have now lost 17 men, I figure if I am lucky, I might have only killed half that many GI's . War is hell, and I am on the wrong side of that this day, Minute 14:00 We spot a GI moving into the nearest barn, I give the order to turn the barn into Swiss cheese, we will see how he fairs here soon. Minute 13:00 well my men did not understand my order, my machine gunner even started using his bolt action rifle instead trying to act like a sniper, So this turn I have ordered both MG's to area fire on the barn, let's see if I get any better results Minute 12:00 That was useless, well at least He has a squad or two at the farm, maybe now I can have a chance at the cafe again. I can take the remainder of my force except two men and at least try for the cafe and hope I get on the right end of a fire fight for once, not likely, but can hope anyway

Minute 23:00 I pull my next fire team at the roadway hedge just in time, they have to go to ground but they are safe for now. Every GI that could open up on their old location from the north south roadway does, tons of lead hit the hedgerow, but no one is there to take the heat. Smoke pops at the intersection from the GI,s, either they are going to try and move troops over that way or they wanted to stop my area fire over there. I am betting on them trying to move troops up to better locations. I have 4 fire teams that can see & bear fire somewhat on that area, so I hope they try something there, because I need the enemy to help me out at this point to recover from this mess I have made. Minute 20:00 I receive reports back that the left flank unit has crossed the open field and are now near the farm complex, it's time to bug out. I order for a 30 second pinning fire on the intersection to try and pin any enemy at that location and then we are out of here as fast as we can go with the two remaining teams that have been left to cover the withdrawal.

Minute 27:00 My last two men left of the hedge manage to hold on and start returning fire, two other units I have try to give them cover fire against the group that has them pinned down. I am in a terrible position with no good terrain to my left or right to try and improve the situation much. 11 men are down with two more still trapped. I have made a great blunder and now it's costing me my men's lives. I was so concerned about that cafe building having enemy units that I managed to lead my men into a bigger death trap trying to protect myself against an enemy that was not there. At this point I am in survivor mode, no long term planning since no bold move will seem to help my position much. I personally run to cover to find a spot to cover the far east so that nothing tries to flank us there. The east does not appear it will give us much problem to defend. I will see if we can get my two surviving men on the east side of the hedge back to safety. But they are in real trouble with how I have put them at risk. Minute 24:00 In the last minute I have lost the other two men, Stupid, it was my fault, it was too exposed over there and it was not a smart risk and I have paid for it with my men's lives. Now I have no good options, but I will pull back and try to probe into the main farm complex, But the Gi's should be able to move into that area first, if they are not already there. Either way, I see no good terrain to try and push a probe. But I need to put some pressure on the complex, so I will try to advance from the Northwest even though it is also terrible terrain to try and advance on. At the present location I will leave a watch to try and pick off anyone trying to take that terrain, but holding it alone will not achieve my objectives. Advancing up the road appears stupid at this point. With the present troop placement.

Minute 31:00 Things continue to go without a hitch, so I order my third fire team unit up the left side of the hedge along our left flank, if I can get these units up to where they can view the cafe and cover themselves from the road running north-south, then I will feel much better about moving in on this first structure we have to investigate. Minute 29:40 As my three units to the left of the hedge push eastward the sound of a lone shot suddenly is heard from one of my men's rifles. But to my surprise, it is the fire team that is up the road that is presently watching the intersection that has spotted something and now more fire is sent that way and I hear return fire also. Then I see a GI crawling across the street trying to make the building. I open up along with the men with me, we see him drop limp, the point man up the road signals two Americans down. I immediately order the men left of the hedge to push to the hedge parallel with the road them G.i.s came out of. Likely there might be more troops on that road. My gut tells me they were scouts heading for that building we were moving toward, so its vacant, well I don't know that but I am going to risk men's lives to try and take advantage of it not being occupied. So I order my trailing fire team that is watch the right flank field to start rushing forward and try to get to that cafe quickly. Or at least cover it with fire. Minute 29:00 Pushing up the left side of the hedge turns into disaster for me almost immediately. The first fire team makes the hedge next to the intersection. Almost immediately spot multiple enemies on the other side. Fire a few rounds toss a grenade or two and take cover and continue to fight. Screams are heard and results look promising. The second fire team is getting close to the hedge, but just then a grenade comes over and lands right in the mist of them and explodes before anyone can get down. I have lost a fire team just like that. Moments later a second grenade lands in the general area again and adds insult to injury. Now the Gis are starting to spot thru the hedge from the road side and they begin a fire fight with my third fire team that is sitting back over there in over watch position, that fight is not going to last long because my guys have no decent cover. They go down quickly to the enemy fire. Within moments I have lost 9 men, I have 4 more out there stranded now with no real way to support them. Now everyone is hustling to reposition, no question, we have ran into 2 plus squads of enemy soldiers in that intersection area, likely means at least a enemy platoon out there, possible doing the same thing we were doing. Recon of the area. I lost the fight of contact already and cannot afford to lose more men to the poor position we are now in. I must quickly try to help my forward fire team, but holding the position appears useless. I have no real way to flank his left or right side, where as he has a left flanking move to my right side and on his right flank he can continue to find positions to add firepower against me there. I have no clue as to how I am going to do it, but I need to withdrawal to a decent fire line location and somehow draw him in since most of his force appears to be all located near the intersection.

Minute 34:00 I start this mission with plenty of concern. With only a platoon of men, I have no real force to deal with any sized enemy unit except for a squad level patrol or less, anything other than that and I will be risking my own men's lives to fulfill our mission. As we enter our objective area to scout for enemy activity, we find ourselves in a steady rain fall and visibility is limited to 75 meters. This wrecks my plans as to putting a base of fire on the hedge row to the right flank without exposing my men in an open field, I will just have to use that to benefit us also and keep in mind the enemy has limited visibility of us too. My plan is thus, maneuver, using the hedge rows along the road ways as my approach lanes to the intersection and cafe to the east, and then using similar tactics to move north and check out the main farm complex. I have decided to stay out the open fields, even though with the limited vision it might be more feasible. But I really do not want caught in the open and not have the flanking hedgerows secured. My strength is the 4 MG's in the unit. If I keep them from getting ambushed, in position to help with bring fire power to any small skirmish and in good order in case we do hit a sizable force. I might be able to even combine them into a fire to support an attack force if I decide the enemy is weak enough I can overwhelm them by attacking across the open fields. None of these options feel comfortable, but no heavy asset being assigned to the mission. All I have is small unit tactics in terrain that does not favor the attacker. Not my lucky day, or my men. For now I move two units to the North West hedgerow to assign one machine gun group to protect us from any units coming onto us from the north. Another mg to watch the roadway we will be working down to the east, the third will be stationed to watch the north, the forth will watch the east as we send out my other units to scout ahead of them, the unit entering the east field is to only see if they can draw fire once they are within sight of the east hedge row near the cafe. Minute 33:00 As my units move to their first positions, I receive reports that do not help me feel any better in my gut. My unit that went into the field to our right flank was immediately able to see the cafe and most of the next hedgerow line, So visibility is better than I thought, they knew better than to enter the field, since it would be very easy to get into a kill zone with all that cover for the enemy and no way to get friendly supporting fire without them also entering into the field from the only access point into open ground. It would not be a good decision, if one wants to see another day. So I have ordered them back and to not get themselves too exposed. My other units are getting into position, most are finding decent line of sight, and we are even able to see the main farm complex and could lay a base of fire against some of the structures if we see the need. Now the trick of trying to move down the road without getting ambushed. One unit on my left flank can already see down the backside of the hedgerow to the left of the road we want to take, but as I begin to send scout units forward. I will send another team through the hedge just to make sure the roadway is secure. Also this might draw fire from the main farm complex, which I feel we could return fire on and pin down if it were to happen. Minute 32:00 So far, things are quiet. My unit on the right flank reports that they can still see the cafe if they stay located at the opening in the hedgerow, so I order the panzerschreck team and a MG to reposition to that location to provide cover fire if anything opens up on us from the building location. My team up the road at the hedge opening leading to our left flank reports that the building down the road cannot see us there. So I now order my men to scout using that path, try using the far side of the hedge left of the road and move east towards our first objective. I have plenty of units that are now able to help on the left flank if anything happens there, If I can get units able to move up on that left hedge, they will have good ability to cover the building we are moving to, it is a risky move since they are exposed from many locations on that side of the hedge, but it is worth the risk.

Well, this is theory, not fact. So I can also think what if the Germans focused on building one tank in large numbers instead of what they did. Then maybe they would have had enough panthers on the battlefield to keep the enemy to their front.

Dont say that, too many think the hits are to common now in the game, but they are going off games from that past, which many I felt had too many misses. now I think this model is pretty good, I like the fact now that when they have the range, you do not see more misses. In CMX1 it would still give misses after hits "that made no sence to me"

Ok, I just ran the test twice, I have to go, but that was interesting. If I set the tank at the angle, the AI generally will leave it alone. Good thing I found for some reason facing to the left seems to be better than right. Before I give the results I want to mention a few things. First I had two tank battles that lasted 15 minutes with no clear winner and basically out of ammo. Second, the amount of rounds bouncing of tigers increased a ton Third, Tigers started becoming immobilized much more often (not a good thing) Results. (Panzers still ruled) first test 3 tigers killed/ no panthers (two somewhat undesided. but one tiger was down to one crew man and really could do nothing second test 3 tigers killed / no panthers (but there was a chance that one battle looked to be going the Tigers way.

This is a good point, It might swing the odds some. I can run the test with the Tigers at the angle and with covered arcs set and see what happens, it might affect it for awhile, I can try to maintain it also with commands during the test. It might help get a few deflections. That was one thing for sure that was not happening before other than for the panthers once in awhile.

Personnally, I would take the panther any day. As for comments about the Tiger side and rear armor advantage, very true, but most any tanker knows that that is a bad situation for them anyway, the whole point is to not get yourself in that situation. keep the front to the enemy. The Tiger is one of very few tanks that can take a hit from the side. But is it trully worth it with the speed it lost in having all that armor. (Maybe so - since they were always so outnumbered. Also wanted to mention that when I was running the test, there was a fair amounts of misses before the tanks found their range. I really do like the new game as to how it works out the aiming and hits on the tanks. It is much more realistic to me than the old system.

Does it sound like a good match up. Well I set up a little test scenario to see how balenced the two tanks were to each other in a duel. So one tank head to head at 1000 meters, ran 5 battles in the test map and watched the action. Each crew is Vet. with a high morale At first it seemed that it was pretty even, but it appears the better tank in game terms at that range is the Panther. My results was 14 wins To the Panther vs 6 for the Tiger. Now I know some math grog will get on here and tell me I need to run hundreds of test to get a result that means anything. But out of the 4 runnings I did, The panthers had 60/40 win ratio minimum and the one run was 100/0. So I feel safe in saying it has at least a 60% chance of winning the duel. Sounds like the clear winner to me. What do you think?