average

Bitch, Bitch, Moan, Moan, Games were better when they were played on boards. Can't believe you don't get as long as you need to think about things. Its like a click fest. I prefer staged 60 seconds turns. I have 4 hours an evening to play out 30 minutes of action. Lot of child like moaning about how its not the same as CMX1 and it should be because, you know we really liked CMX1. Well keep playing CMX1. But it has the same name. Well, its a brand name. It is like saying the F-22 Lighting 2 should be similiar to the P-38 Lighting 1. Things change, sometimes you like it sometimes you don't. If you don't like it, it does not mean it is crap ipso facto. It is different. There is a grown ups lesson guys. Something board based war gamers are not renound for, but regardless, try applying it to other situations in your life, see if you spend less time moaning. The review is off the mark. Most of the bitching is off the mark as far as I'm concerned. You want to see utter crap, get your hands on Eric Young's Squad Assault, to see just how good BFC have got CMSF. Next week we learn to use the word 'challenge' instead of 'problem.' [ August 11, 2007, 05:45 AM: Message edited by: average ]

I don't know about you dude, but last time i checked how you deal with a berm, it involves a bulldozer. The gradients are just too steep. A proper berm needs engineers. A small berm, sure you can drive an AFV over it, although have you ever been inside an M113 when it finds a sharp depression ?

If you set a really hideously stupid way point the AI won't read your mind. Simple work around, set better waypoints, it's not very hard. The other thing I've found is issue a face command. The tank might get on a bit of an angle on the way up, but will get on more of an angle dancing around your waypoints. Use the face command and your problems will vanish. The issues with pathfinding are in urban areas, or in short hop waypoints where turning circles become involved and their are lots of small obstacles or marginal passages.

Have you seen the other posts on this topic. Have you looked at the gradient of that slope. Check the tac map. The berms are a barrier, you have a way up, but no way down. Ergo OMG OMG OMG OH NOES is actually... the pahtfinding isn't broken in that respect. You go down the highway. The flat bit, the saddle in the berm,intended for traffic. As Ren would say...

I struggled through the seocnd mission twice to inconclusive results, mainly because i didn't go firm on the barracks objective and syrian ghosts occupied the SF HQ. On my 3rd attempt, I gave up trying to fight the company like the good little aussie I am and just fought with fires, standing off the light AT assets. I found the best way of doing it is to assault the barracks by breaching the wall, moving your mounted plt through with one MGS, dismounting in cover and using 3:1 ratio for movement inside the barracks complex(ie no more than 25% of your force in the assault element). Once I secured the barracks, I then deployed the dismounts on the top floor, with additional ammo for the MMGs and javelins. I then started using the javelins to demolish anything that looked like an enemy fighting position. Take fire from the broken building,return it with javelins, mk19s, 50 cals, mmgs. If its really offending you, 105mm works as well. I ended up demolishing four or five buildings in that manner during the first ten minutes of the assault. In the interim I moved the balance of my forces up to the runway. Waited for the 120mm battery to come on line and then dropped both the 81mm and 120mm in support of a rapid advance through the breach by the balance of the company. The trigger man was spooked, no IED problems. At that point I then shifted fires onto the suspected location of opfor SF elements, and used the buildings on the far northern corner of the map for cover. Dismounted, loaded up javelins, anything that fired at me, fired back. Kept one Plt mounted which I used to mount a high speed lunge at the HQ building, with MGS, 40mm Styker and Javelin support. Got in close, popped a lot of smoke, moved one squad into the objective, searched it, then the minute the search was executed, popped smoke and withdraw, leaving it to the Jihadees. SF HQ was then a matter of repositioning 1st plt at Barracks to provide fires onto the ruined building and SF HQ, while I worked it over with fires. The Syrian SF Plt in the compound to the west of SF HQ also came in for some attention from Bn Morts. I then moved the balance of my force into position to heap fire onto the building, kept pounding it till it collapsed. Got a little bit flustered by the odd RPG from the ruined building, and just flattended it with Javelins and MGS. Once I have levelled the SF HQ, I occupied it then, proceeded to comb out all my fire support assets on spotted positions down near the main gate, together with a large number of javelins. Next result, Syrian's gave up with about 20 fighters left standing against 3 US WIA. Thing I really like about the airbase assault is that it teaches you close assaults ar ecostly, fires are cheap, and you find yourself employing the sort of excessive use of force you attributed to defects in the American national character to convserve your forces. Hellfires are cheap compared to trying to move your rifle section across a fire lane, losing half straight up and having the other half pinned down in a fire lane that then forces you to commit the balance of the plt to extract them. Other tips:- Speed = protection BUT don't push forward quickly. Prep the immediate battle space with fires, then use speed to firstly concentrate your force, secondly, to disrupt defensive zones through rapid transit, third to maintain the initiative and finally to get out of fights your not going to win quickly. It is hard to hit a plt of stykers moving at full speed left to right 150m distant with an RPG. Shockforce gets this part of right. Moreover, once you're position is disclosed there is an awful lot of 50cal and small arms that you can send back at them. Stand off - the US forces can effectively stand off anything the Syrians have, other than ATGMs. Stay outside the effective range of their weapons, but inside yours. Superior comms and spotting. US units have better situational awareness. Accordingly, you don't need to close reece to acquire targets, so don't risk your force by closing the gap. Specualtive fires are good fires. If you think that is where you would anchor your defence, pound it. If no one is there you've wasted 2000 rds of 50cal, 50 40mm grenades and some easily replenished smalls arms ammunition and maybe the odd Javelin. Wait till your lead element is 75m away and gets hit up and you've got a burning vehicle, an imperative to extract the crew and remaing dismounts and your going to use twice as much ammo because you can't spend three minutes working it over, because your dudes are getting shot. If you get within 75m and no one shoots at you, good. The Syrians rely on you conserving force. If you expend maximum effort they have nothing to counter you as the US commander. Final tip, once a firefight starts, hook in, the longer it goes on the greater the chance you'll take casualties amongst your force, and the more likely the enemy is to support the element in contact, meaning your concentration of fire is dispersed. Caveats:- 1. Ammo consumption is not much of an issue given you have 2000rds of 50 cal per strkyer; 2. You would lose the peace and public support fighting this way very quickly; and 3. You still have to use the terrain to your advantage, tatical rules still apply no matter how much gucci firepower you have. [ August 09, 2007, 05:45 AM: Message edited by: average ]

Getting off topic briefly:- AP-I rounds are certainly not lawfully used against infantry. Same for HEI-T. Slap and ball are good to go though, although sooner or later someone will take the point as a mater of customary international law its considered poor form to use 12.7mm stuff against people (ie the US Military considers it causes excessive suffering,as does the ADF and some other western militaries, ergo the prohibition has entered via custom as part of the laws of war.) Now if I bust you violating customary international law I can take steps against you directly, irregardless of prohibitions and technical points about nationality. Whether practically anyone would do that on the point is doubtful. Not to fear though, the ICJ isn't going to start inditing people for it anytime soon, they haven't even got around to good old fashioned war criminals let alone 19 year old punks lighting up the odd combatant with a .50 cal. What I'm really curious to see is if anyone is willing to own up to the 49 convention basically making a lot of what the coaltion get up to in Iraq fairly illegal at international law. Personally, I think 50 cal is a fair bit kinder than 155mm shake and bake fire missions.

It seems to me the more you hate the styker becauses its not heavy, the less experience you've had of operating heavy formations. JasonC, have you really though about how hard it is to maintain a tracked AFV doing convoy runs ? What about the damage they do to the roads? I think BFC have an interesting idea in terms of the employment of SCBT. The idea that superior mobility wins battles is not some wierd fantasy, it goes to concentration of force and freedom of action, both of which you wants lots of in order to achieve tatical victories. During OIF (and I'm not expert and I wasn't there), it seems the Marine Corps, 82nd and 101st all manage to conduct manoeuvre warfare to disrupt, dislocate and ultimately overcome Iraqi defences (although they must have been blessed to get away with so few casualaties). As far as I am aware, the Marines had M1's, Lavs, AAV7's, lots of Humveees and some trucks. Nothing you wouldn't find or attach into a SCBT in a convetional environment, except the Syrkers are better than AAV7s, Humvees and any sort of truck. The 101st and 82nd didn't even have the Lavs and AAV7s, or the M1s for the most part. Just Humvees,trucks, helos. All of which are not as well protected or armed as the Styrker. From my armchair, the arguements for wheelies are really quite compelling from a logistical through to an operational level. It is no good having armour if you can't take it with you, spend all your time fixing it, don't have any roads left after operating it and carry such a limited number of dismounts you end up parking AFV's in intersections to try and control your AO. My final thoughts are that given heavy formations are hard to deploy, cost a lot, and don't contribute much to operations other than warfare (and high and medium spectrum stuff at that), the slander of the wheeled platforms is because the tankies realise that accountants can't tell the difference between Styrkers and Bradleys, except the Bradleys cost more and carry less grunts, and given the Styrker has the MGS, then isn't that sort of similiar to an M1A2 SEP. Maybe if you really paint it black, the Syrkers might not be seen as able to replace the heavy kit. What would really keep me awake if I was an up and coming US Army LT-COL would be my cold war Bradleys and M1's being shagged after Iraq. We all know different roles, but if you have to make some cutbacks to pay for ill considered adventures, and the last war you fought was an insurgency, then budget cuts and force restructures can't be far behind. [ August 07, 2007, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: average ]

Everyone seems to be focussing on the 25mm variants of the LAVIII. Remember the LAV-25 isn't replacing the AAV7 for a reason, and that reason is its a armoured reece wagon, not a bus. TheICV/IMV variants are normally armed with HMGs, or MMGs in service. The 25mm turrets take up a lot of hull space, that severally limits the space in the back. Whereas you can fit all the kit, packs, spare batteries, water, ammo and spank books in the back of an ASLAV-PC for instance. Actually, now I think of it, the ALSAV-PC is close to a Sytrker ICV as your going to get, minus the FCB2. The reason the US Army didn't buy off the shelf I suspect is probably a political question. It seems that the networked transformation chaps had a role in coming up with the specification, and ultimately FCB sucked up a lot of the funds, as did slightly modifying the LAVIII hull. Finally, I think the Australian model of a mixture of ASLAV-R's and ASLAV PC's (also used by the Canadians if I understand it right) in the same squadron and troop would be worth looking into. Mount your grunts in the PC versions, your Plt Commander in the R variant, and if you really want additional AT or SFMG assets drop a second R in, to give you 2 ASLAVRs, 3 ASLAV PCs per plt, and call it mech infantry. [ August 06, 2007, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: average ]

Well the tubes are not going to be much use in a direct fire role, although I'd guess the Russians have splintex rounds,heat rounds aviable and emergency sights for their tubes. They are good like that. Be an interesting match up, Stryker Co+ against a Syrian battery or batteries. Maybe with some rear echelon types in support. Could the Strykers nail the gunners or would it end very badly if the Syrians had the guts to stick the guns and get a few rounds off.

I would think twice because the AT4 isn't necessarily going to kill said T72 frontally (especially any variant with reactive armour, and perhaps not side on as well). The AT4 isn't designed to go head to head with modern MBT's, your cruisng for a mobility kill, or maybe freaking the crew out, or having the tank put 125mm rounds through the cinder block wall. If you did brew it up, then, well you might have problems, but remember, it has all that very thick armour between you and the ready racks cooking off and unless your rambo, you're going to be firing from cover. That said you could stand up and let rip the AT4 and wait, and wait, and if you hadn't knocked it out, then get engaged with the co-ax, the nasty russian 12.7mm and the main gun.

I'd like to see:- 1. Zu-23, Zpu-4, 57mm AA guns, used in both direct fire and anit-aircraft modes. 2. Manpads - SA7,SA14 for Syrian forces, to at least give them some change of beating of repeated Apache gun runs; 3. Syrian field artillery, 122mm and 152mm tubes, without indirect fire capabality on map, remember its a US breakthrough, you are going to overrun batteries (at least ones that haven't been smashed by counter battery); 4. M113's for HBCT pogues; and 5. Light UAV's, the Raven most likely, perhaps as part of the Scouting element of the SBCT and HBCT formations. I am however open to correction on who owns the goodies for that one. It would be a very useful addition to the M707 for sniffing out trouble in complex terrain. [ August 05, 2007, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: average ]

And I lost my save games doing a reinstall (wtf ?omg nooo)

Hey, I've seen a similiar bug, but not the exact same bug. Problem occurs in loading the campaign mission after Der as Salud (spelling, its the capture a city block, capture the airport building) with a total victory US result (no losses and all but 13 of the Syrians dead, thank you mr 155mm battery). It then hangs on reaching the 50% mark trying to load the next mission and stops reading from the hardrive. I also discovered the same problem with the factory outlet missions. I'm running a P4 3.2, 1 gig ram, 6800gt, with plenty of harddrive space. Before someone tells me to ditch the box, I'm about to upgrade, just waiting to see if the DX10 card issues are resolved with this title and armed assault before making a final decision.

Yep -see post in scenario section. Its annoying, but on the upside, give speculative fire on the buildings if approach from the right hand side and keep your timings when moving through to avoid problems with IEDs. Also can't cap the SF HQ (had a Plt sitting on it and every syrian dead with 400 metres). That said I expended all my 120mm mortar missions and ah64d hellfires on the joint so it wasn't all in one piece anymore.

I entirely agree DzrtFox's opinion is valid. Red Devils, well, that is open to serious doubt. Finally, I forgot, balding and 40 year old, although nothing wrong with going bald or being 40 per se.

And which of the constructive posts ran with an OMG I've been ripped off theme ? Yes, my post is helpful, balancing if you will. So it needs patching, it's not ruined, broken or a fraud on the public and I'm tiring of seeing BF defamed relentlessly by said obese IT professionals with dyed in the wool views about what is a wargame and what is not.

Do you think that maybe, just maybe these OMG they ripped me off threads are really unhelpful ? I do understand that BFC owes you, personally, the customer, to produce the product you expected. The simple point you guys keep coming back too, is its not your idea of a war game. All 10 or 15 of you. You can still play WEGO if you really want, but no doubt, that people can play in RT ruins the experience, because, maybe, possibly, people could be doing it a different way. On refelction, what I want you to do, is play a few hours on basic training settings in wego. That way you get all the great features of CMBO (borg spotting, jesus in command of your isolated rifle squad), but with modern equipment. If it still doesn't float your boat, then, well, you've learnt a valuable lesson about the free market system and consumer decision making. Actually, how about you sue Battlefront for misleading and deceptive conduct and see if you can get a judge to agree with you, rather than other obese IT professionals who consider war games are turned based and can be played on tables with dice ?

It's an RT kiddie clickie fest that is too hard for you obviously.I really don't feel duped. You can still play in WEGO, just you don't like it as much. They sacrficed the purity did they snookums ? What I am concerned about is I came here looking for useful information about how to play the game and all I found was men in their 40's crying themselves a river because CMX2 is different and not as good, and different, mainly different. It reminds me of when WEGO first hit the scene replacing IGOUGO (ala Steel Panthers), and everyone moaned about it, a few people kept playing SP2, most people moved on. It's terrible how consumers and software companies sometimes change the look and feel of a product, take advantage of improved technology and the like. I wish we stuck with PC-DOS and Wordperfect 5.1.

Red Devil, you are right, BFC has sold you out. It is part of a larger conspiracy. I only know becase I work for the Government. CM:SF is an insult, directed at you personally, designed to push you over the edge of reason, into racial abuse, irrational posting and grammatically incorrect sentences. The only thing to do, and I'm not sure if there is still time, is to head to the hobby store and see if Avalon products are still on the market. In order to do this, you must wear the tinfoil hat to protect you from the mind control rays BFC used to make you purchase this game you hate. Don't be despairing though, you are a Red Devil (presumably you're a Para, not just some walter mitty), so there is some chance you can fight your way out of this evil place. Seriously, the AI subject to the odd minor glitch is fine. Grow up, suck up your disappointment and bottle it up.

I like how the WEGO is ruined crew keep coming back to the same point, I can't think about it for long enough. Spot on. Just like the real world, you make decisions on the hop. I don't understand how making decisions on the hop in the consequence free world of computer gaming can be anything but liberating, unless you have serious control freak issues (and it sounds like a few of you have those 'issues'). The point I'm going to keep making is that the interface is slick enough to get orders out, and get them out quickly, enough that you don't run out of time. My only complaint about RT is that you can't excercise indirect control over TACAI behaviour. It gets frustrating having to issue fire orders to distant elements to support a close assault and it is something that the TACAI should be able to handle without direct intervention each and every time, at least for spotted targets rather than area fires. Similiarly, I don't understand why there isn't a more generic fire order for a sector, rather than a point. Perhaps within the targeting menu you can have the option of emergency, rapid, sustained or defensive fire to give you some control over expenditure beyond target/target light and point (although i understand the volume of fire the tacai puts on depends on range and threat perception). I should really post this somewhere more useful, although BF has said they don't want to further complicate the menus (maybe give us a hotkey for the intensity or have it default as is).

Janster, More money on ESL classes. You have your view, you've spammed the forums, and yes BFC have sold you out, so don't buy the next game. See you still have a choice. Remember, you like choice. You can go back to the board games even. Random thought, board based wargamers had a bad reputation for being semantic, poorly socialised nerds(often with jobs in the IT industry). Focus.

Hahaha. Janster, did I say any of things you just attributed to me? Fighting a Bn with every section under my command is not my idea of a good pass time. It might be yours. We are obviously going to disagree about realism, but the point I'm making is that a commander doesn't have infinite time, comms bandwidth, personality or situational awareness to go into the level of planning typically involved in WEGO style gameplay. I like a good size company engagement. Simply as that, its what I understand. Ideally, I could push some of the burden further down the chain (ie push down to plt level things like the absolute level of aggression and maybe set up some drills and SOPs on contact) to free up a little bit of time. If you want something really close to the real deal for fighting larger formations, I suggest you invest in a copy of TacOps 4. Its really rather good if pushing a BN down a highway is your idea of fun. Finally, it tells me something about the fat slothful public servant mindset that treasures WEGO that you suggest I go and play Football instead, because its an RTS. Incidentally, I do like a game of Rugby Union every so often. Actually, you've hit on something, I must be dumb. Sorry, I'll stop posting now, I understand your view of combat operations is the only correct view, and those of us who think realism equals friction, time pressure and all the rest are airsofting rugby players. Finally, while I think of it, its not exactly that frantic in real time as it is, most of the time your just using fires to dominate and deny terrain rather than getting in real close and dirty (at least when your blue). [ July 29, 2007, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: average ]

I've got this feeling WEGO appeals to OCD type personalities. Turned based wargaming is for a tiny minority of players, but a very vocal tiny minority. WeGo IIRC was invented to overcome some of the dumber aspects of pure turn based. RT overcomes the dumber aspects of WeGo. I wouldn't mind betting that Close Combat sold more copies than Matrix/Cammo Workshop and CMBO sold put together. Seriously, a good plan is one that you can execute. This micromanagement of individual sections is nonsense as well. If you can't make your plan work issuing point and click commands, then is it really a good command ? You can't be everywhere at once, and half the fun is to work with the limits of your command structure. Personally, I love real time, you get more depth, immersion and the rest. Together with C2 its just the best wargame ever.I don't like knowing exactly what happended. I want to figure it out on the fly, formulate a plan and action it. Not puzzle it out like chess. I suggest the WEGO or the IGO crowd invest in a chess set and start backing up their copies of CMBO.

I'm totally fine with been patronised on the basis that I haven't been posting non-stop sice I first stumbled on CMBO sometime in the early part of this decade. Apparently I'm also one of those realism nerds, who thinks real time is actually a good idea so you have time pressure in making decisions. Regardless, the basis point is that you think its no fun if you can't buy the units. Its like shopping, but for Grogs. Your view is having strange force mixtures adds replayabality. My view is that having to adapt your tactics to your force mix is good for replayabality. It also means you are forced to think a little bit. As for my concerns, well you dimiss stupid force structures as not being a problem, and then go on to say a circus is great fun. The illustration used by Mr Spkr is that using gentleman's agreements, you could get a balanced game using historically accurate forces (ie Matilda 2's v M40's) by both players agreeing to buy based on historical TOEs. So, the new method makes gentleman of us all. That is surely a good thing. Anyway, I seem to be getting the idea that putting together some wierd force mixture and fighting it out WEGO style is your idea of fun. Its certainly not my idea of fun, and it is a matter of opinion. Just like you can hold backward views about how much fun it is to mix together a Plt of Waffen SS, some Hungarian Conscripts and then suddenly, in a god like issue orders to all of them every 60 seconds. Incidentally, do you want to tell me how many points my M1A2 is worth ? What if my M1A2 is fighting uncons, or if its fighting Republican Guards ? Should the value vary maybe ? So do any of you shopping Grogs play to be challanged or is it to work out in your own mind if the T-34/M42 is as effective against the PIVF2 as the T-34/M43 variant ?

Thanks for the tips. On reflection, the problem with my approach is I'm still crossing fire lanes at close range and losing maybe 2 or 3 strykers if not more, and until I can sort that out, its going to be brutal) I'm already doing a lot of that, but for employing the Javelins (which is an idea thats growing on me while I'm at work). I'm also thinking also those M240's (Mag 58s or GPMG's to me)might be usefully employed if i could deploy them inside the barracks compound on the upper floors to put fire down the road onto the SFHQ, the broken building and keep the Jihadees down the main gate supressed. My other thought is that the whole map is basically one big cross fire (and there is no way you have the force to go house to house to clear enough of it out) Best I've managed is a draw (I'd prefer to win it, there seems to be a hidden objective for the Syrians, that probably means clearing out the eastern most building in the barracks compound)