David I

Nidan, Different exhaust system? On the inside they gutted the hydraulic system for the turrent, taking away one of the few things the H series had going in it's favor. DavidI

PPS, You're going to wait till Monday morning to release it aren't you? You and MikeyD conspiring together or somefink? Uhmm? DavidI

Gurra, Go for it! There can never be enough. DavidI

PS, I really like the way you have the doors in the turrent skirts (?) open and not mearly missing. DavidI

AndrewTF (The Great & Powerful), Truely a thing of great beauty. DavidI

I was going to quietly drop out of this thread, but look at the size of those rounds next to the loader! Makes me shudder! It's a hell of an equalizer and I'm sure a welcome addition to any battalion/regiment/indepentant/ad'hoc formation that was lucky enough to get them. Talk about rare, check out the SP motar rig. Chassis any one? Nice pic's Wartgamer! DavidI

Based on the photographic evidence given above, I'll have to bet on the guy with the smaller mustache. DavidI

Seeing those old threads about Tom's Greek and Beyond Siegfried Projects got me fired up. However the resurfacing of the threads did not get him to respond. I tried an email to him, but no response. DavidI

Ask 'em for a patch. DavidI

Depressing, yet cheerless. DavidI

Well I have learned alot from this thread. I will point out, however, that it was the loss from Stalingrad and Kursk that caused the building of '44 divisions and the resultant upgrade in mortars. To say you can't find any mention of 120's in July of 43 when production of them didn't start until that year does not suprise me in the least (a little like saying their was no expendeture of Kurtz rounds at Kursk means that no MP44s were issued to battalions in 44). Another poster says that the Germans made 8,000 plus of the buggers between 43 and 45, that equips 2,000 battalions, or for the sake of argument 1,000 Regiments, or 333 divisions (minus for losses, plusses for captured Russian tubes). They had to be used somewhere. But I digress... Are there any TOE's available in print, in English, that might shed light on the darkness of my ignorance? I mean if the only English source for TOE's are limited to "The Handbook" and Nafzlinger then that is all I can know. Oh by the way SPI (Simulations Publications Inc) was a wargaming magazine where spirited debates on these matters occured, in print, back in the '70s. DavidI

Cheerless, yet depressing. DavidI

Jon, Point taken. Still not a bad start. DavidI

AndrewTF, (the Great & Powerful), I hate to tempt the Gods, but sure! As you deem appropriate. DavidI

Looks like Mikey has yielded the "skirted" Pz IV's to AndrewTF (The Great and Powerful), therefore.... AndrewTF (The Great and Powerful), I humblely abaise myself before your Greatness and Powerfulness (?) and beseach thee to maketh the skirted Pz. IV's with cammo. This I do in the name of the mod sluts who grovel at your feet, look at their own pathedic attempts at modding (making them gag), and gaze in wonder at your magnificent results which causes the sun to shine on their addicted souls. Ahhh, mmmm... Yeah, I think that covers it. DavidI ________________________ You never know how addicted you are to "Spell-check" until....

Michael, There indeed lies the rub. And since I don't speak German..... DavidI

Tom? Ah... Tom are you there? Hhhmmmmm.... DavidI

Gee Wiz you undermine my faith in the War Department. A War Department that, I might add, had every German document West of the Elbe, and a few million German POW's. I find, in general, that its is not a bad rough guide to German TOE's for '44. I did check with Nafzlinger's "German Infantry" but got little joy, he hardly mentions the 120mm. He does show the TOE for a German '45 type Division with 8 120mm's at Regimental level (still 4 tubes per battalion). In the way back days, SPI did a couple of articles on the 1944 type German Infantry Division's creation. Due to the massive losses of '42 and '43 a reorganization of the 1939 style Division was required. Some of these renovations were codified changes that were already happening in the field (ie cannibalizing the third Regimental Battalion in order to bring the other two battalions up to near strength). The idea was to decrease the amount of infantry in each Regiment and battalion, without losing too much fire power. This was done by reducing the three battalion Regiments to two, and by reducing the number of Infantry squads in a platoon from 4 to 3. At the same time the number of heavy weapons in the battalion and regiment were retained (the How company in a regiment still had 6 75mm and 2 150mm Inf guns, the Hvy weapons platoon in the company still had 6 HMG's and 2 motars). Further there was an upgrade in motar types with the fazing out of the 50mm mortar as the Company mortar and replacing them with 81mm, and replacing the 6 81mm motars in the Battalion Hvy Weapons Company with 4 120mm motars. Now, was that done uniformally across all Inf. divisions? Of course not. Was that the ideal they were striving to achieve? Yes. Was it accomplished in many divisions? I believe so. Especially in the divisions that were withdrawn from the front and rebuilt. Did some battalions replace their 50mm motars with 81mm's and yet still have their 6 81mm motars in the Heavy Weapons Company while waiting for the promised 120mm's? You bet. The next big change was the establishment of the VolksGrenadier Division. Again reducing the number of infantry and attempting to upgrade their firepower. In this case by reducing size of squads and increasing the amount of automatic small arms. Again with 81mm motars for the company and 120mm's at battalion. You can see some of these changes in CMBB. Take a look at a 1941 Infantry Battalion and then at a 1944 Infantry Battalion. Note the decrease in infantry, but the relative stability of the heavy weapons, and the increase in tube size of the motars. I am unsure if the company mortars were "batteried" together as I suggested in my previous post. So maybe the TOE as given in the game would be better (ie two motars to the company and a 81mm FO or 120mm FO). Now I expect a German speaking Grog, with original documents at his elbow, to come along and shread what has easily been my longest post. DavidI _______________________________________________ Insurance Companies move in mysterious ways. Like God, of course, but less generous.

On German Infantry Battalions: "The Handbook on German Military Forces", March 1945, US Army, says: German Inf. Battalion 1944 type had: 3 Rifle (Grenadier) Companies: Each with 3 Rifle Platoons + 2 HMG's each 1 Hvy Weapons Company with 6 HMG, 6 81mm Mortars and 4 120mm Mortars. For a total of 12 HMG's 6 81mm Mortars and 4 120mm Motars. So the 120mm's are part of the Battalion. The heavy howitzer company of the Regiment has 6 75mm Inf guns and 2 150mm Inf Guns. This Battalion organization remains fairly true throughout Inf, Para and Mech forces (more mortars & LMGs in the Fallschirmjager, more mech. guns & LMG's in PzGr. formations) CM shows the 81mm's being distributed amongst the Companys, while the 120's remain off board. I personally feel that the best representation of a '44 battalion would be to have the Infantry Companies (with no motars) + 1 81mm FO and 1 120mm FO. This varies gobs by losses, formation types, etc., but I believe that 120mm Mortars were, by 44, Battalion level assets. DavidI

Tom, I did some fooling around with modding the Germans with Continental tunics with no shirts and rolled up sleeves. Unfortunately the rolled up sleeves wouldn't work, the hardcoded cuff length made them look like Poppeye on spinach! :mad: However I did figure out that you could use the LW Mech boys for SS, their organization is similar, there aren't any LW Mech in Greece and the NA LW boys have seperate arm BMPs so you could do SS in tunics with the propper insigna.(Are you reading this BFC?) I'm pretty sure that the 1st LAH was there with armor and everything. Anyway, just thinking. David I PS. I think both projects have great merit, pursue, pursue, pursue. DI [ March 14, 2005, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: David I ]

Mikey, Got home and downloaded them no problem. I retained the early G from the original, and put in your G. That gave me a chance to see them side by side. What a huge difference! :eek: The old ones looked like everything was painted on , yours looked like you could reach in and open the gunners/loaders hatches, or wedge that wood in to get out of a bog. Love it. Keep'em coming. Please make the Late G and H cammo. Leave the J alone or AndrewTF (The Great and Powerful) will have to destroy you. And that would be sad. DavidI

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH! (Face slam into desk top. Repeat three times. Shake head. Remember manners.) Those are beautiful Mikey, thanks for posting them when you did (bite tongue). DavidI

Welcome to the dripping needle of mod addiction. Do a search on the forum for "Best Mods" etc, you'll find alot of info. My Name is David and I am a Mod Slut. David I

I've lost many a game in CMBB, but I have never had my ass kicked so bad as when I played this scenario as the Germans against a human opponent. There is nothing more useless in this game as a towed on 88 flak gun. 3 to 5 minutes to set up all the while screaming "I am a great big target, please shoot me now!" I would much rather have 1 50mm AT gun over both those 88's. David I

Sanddigger, I question the source and context of your quotes. Is this from a manual? Is this from one particular unit? "Was never fired from the ground"? Not even in the defense? I don't know. Combat training manuals from the forties are available. David