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vincere

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    RAMADI (Iraq): Mother of All MOUT Maps

    in CMSF Scenario and Mod Design Forum

    Posted

    Correct. "No True Glory" by Bing West gives the numbers. These are corroborated by the other sources.

    JOKER THREE was pinned down in 3 separated groups -- about 44 Marines all told but by game start they are Weakened or Unfit from exhaustion (90 minutes+ under siege in midday heat) and wounds, and ammo is critical.

    (Penny drop moment)- Ah, the No True Glory Ramadi fight. Well that's just intensified my appetite even more.

    If I recall there was a squad cut off at one point?

    And would you suggest any other sources fro Ramadi?

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    RL AAR- ammo use

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    "I dunno -- Karzai seems to me about the best we can expect right now from an Afghan ruler who isn't an out and out warlord. "

    The horrible truth may be that your assessment is correct.

    But, my understanding is that these guys, essentially the entire Afghan govt, don't even live in Afghanistan - they have their families in mansions literally in Dubai etc. and it's hard to see how they give a dam about their country other than lining their pockets with the (again literally) billions of dollars that have been "misplaced" by the US in the past few years.

    And when the rest of us are suffering thru the worst recession etc., there is something amoral and immoral about what is beng done with taxpayer money.

    So, I think Karzai basically IS a warlord... just more subtle.

    There's a quote about the hearts and minds of rebuilding after the battle of Musa Quala. Most Senior commanders, US and Brit agreed that it was a priority. Inbed of author of Snake Bite went back there after a year and the Mosk plan still had not been built even though the British had paid for it twice.

    I also got the impression, although not stated, that you could really question whether, at times, Karzy acted to keep the war going. It's in his interests to keep us there. The Brits (at the top political level) contented themselves with "muddling through". Could make my blood boil.

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    RL AAR- ammo use

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    That's interesting. I've often read that the Taliban are tactically sophisticated but can't hit the broad side of a barn. I remember hearing, during the initial phases of last winter's Operation Moshtarak, that Taliban rifle fire was more of a nuisance than a threat. I recall there was some speculation that the handful of Taliban snipers that could shoot were all foreigners. Whatever came of that I don't know.

    EDIT: Here's an article talking about Afghan marksmanship in general. Haven't found anything about the foreign sniper speculation again, but I seem to remember it was an NYT piece. http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/afghan-marksmen-forget-the-fables/#more-16713

    Yeah, largely not up to blue individual standards but group level accurate to the point of regulary genuinely contesting the fire fight and often winning initially until blue either manouvered on the groung or by arty and or air. Regularly pinning units for periods; but generaly Brits and US section platoon and company leadership, fighting skills and spirit turned tide. However numerous quote of fears of either being outflanked and over run while being somewhat pinned.

    Some mention of Taliban sniper aces up by the dam. 1x whole operation to take him out.

    Talib tactics are evolving too. Another book about 1 R Irish talked about taliban pinning and manouvering to get between blue target unit and its fire support group. Also, sophisticated use if mines.

    What's you definition of accurate by the way. I think i'm quoting it as enough to get the heads down. Whizzing overhead, very close dirt churning, breaking branches over head.

    (Also- there is wide variation of taliban quality)

    Anyway- from what i've been reading definately not all your spray and pray types. RPG fire in particular, perhaps because of ranges, was widely varied in accuracy. However, depending on trajectory near misses counld land some way off. Also, RPGs caused significant supression and casualties at times.

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    RL AAR- ammo use

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    That won't last forever either unless the Western forces are told to quit. It is a fondly held myth of antiwar types that any popular guerrilla movement can tap into a bottomless pool of resentful underemployed and highly motivated youth to replace heavy battlefield losses (and everyone knows those body counts are all fabricated by the imperialists anyway -- another fondly held myth).

    In hindsight, that has been found to be false, repeatedly. A modern military force can in fact kill and maim enough guerrillas over time that the fanatical remainder lose their ability to wage anything more than random terrorism, which alienates the populace. So long as your society has the stomach to keep losing your own professional soldiers at a steady rate.

    Once the Coalition finally coopted the tribal militias in Iraq, the AQIZ forces ran out of recruits rapidly; they were down to fielding 12 year olds by late 2007. By 1972 the Viet Cong had been depleted to the point where they were no longer capable of overrunning South Vietnam, and the NVA had to do that via conventional invasion (on the second try); they too were recruiting child soldiers. Same thing in El Salvador, Guatemala, Algeria (1990s) and Sri Lanka. Before that in Bolivia, Malaya, Cambodia and North Korea. Likely also true in Chechnya.

    I'd go with that. I was crudely summarising- it was a move towards not a complete drop of kill count and adoption of Hearts and Minds. The hearts and minds being foucussed on Afghan fighters who may change sides and securing more areas over sweeps- kill them if they won't switch sides and kill the foriegn fighters. Indeed, the next book 'Op Snake Bite' is the first I've read that touches on Blue Death Squad raids aimed at attriting the hardcore leadership.

    Also, 'Op Snake Bite' has more analysis and did decribe diefferences of approach between commanders and nations. The CO of the theatre Mobile Reserve 82nd Abn had and expressed very forthright views about how the war should be waged.

    Re: ammo cost. Putting the humanistic cost to one side for a mo'- casualties cost a $£ fortune too.

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    RL AAR- ammo use

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    Thats my battalion, 1st Bn , Royal Anglian Regiment and it is in reference to OP Herrick 6.

    The reason for the hand grenades is that when we cleared TB held compounds 'red' you would grenade every room. And when you supress an enemy to then close in and destroy, it takes a lot of rounds as you can appreciate im sure.

    Hope that helps.

    Lot of admiration for that battalion and battle group attachments who were in the field. Carver, and particulary two of the company commanders are portrayed as aggressive hard chargers (and obviously the ranks performed admirably).

    Much of the OP involved new sweeps, and area denial into the Green Zone previously mostly off limits. There was an impression that operations were influenced by a enemy KIA count metality. An analysis of the higher situation and of the next Battle Group shortly after portrayed a shift in mentality towards Hearts and Minds partly because Kill Counts were perceived not to be working by some because Taliban were replenishing just as fast if not faster for a while.

    Another striking thing from that book is what a high impact even 1 or 2 casualties had on even the large operational level.

    Back to ammo use. If I recall, this Battle Group sorely missed direct fire support at times from AFV. Even when available in the form of Scimitars and light vehicle mounted .50s- the fact that the grunts were in the Green Zone and the fire support well away from it meant they were ineffective for fear of blue on blue.

    Oh yeah, nearly forgot. The Taliban were mostly not hill-billies with an AK. Their SOP was prepared abush sites with planed concealed, dead ground type withdrawal routes, to the next ambush position. Also on the attack heavy fire while trying to flank again along planned routes. It was also noted that Taliban fire was on the whole accurate (mortars less so, but bracketing at times).

    Some comparisons with other theatres would be interesting.

    But from the last patch point of view, are the British ammo levels too low?!!?

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    RL AAR- ammo use

    in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

    Posted

    Came across this from an AAR of the Anglian Battle Group April to Sept 2007. Thought it pertinent to a discussion about perfect ammo that comes up from time to time. Maybe interesting for some to contrast with CMSF

    'the group fought more than 350 close quarter battles. On average every sodier was involved in at least 40 serious engagements with Taliban. They (the Battle Group) had fired more than a million bullets and 22,000 artillery and mortar shells. They had thrown over 500 hand grenades and launched more than 7,000 rifle grenades at the enemy. And they had called in more than 200,000 pounds of air-delivered munitions.

    Carver (the CO) estimated circa 1000 enemy KIA.'

    'Attack State Red', Colonel Richard Kemp & Chris Hughes, Penguin Books 2010

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    Wot, No Preview in Britain?

    in Combat Mission Battle for Normandy

    Posted

    OK, no worries. Thanks for the apology.

    Normally it wouldn't have bothered me - certainly not on any other forum. I just think quite highly of the people on here and so hold them to higher standards of civility, especially if I don't really know them.

    So let us move on. You're welcome to come to the preview as you live close. Should be a lot of fun.

    Thank you very much for that; and it is not the reason for my appology.

    Would love to come and will ask the family to check their diaries and award me a leave pass.

    Well said about the standards here. I go through periods of just dropping by and lurking because of the usual high standard of debate and knoweldge.

    EDITED: Para- you keep apologising between my apologies. I hope he accepts my appolgies too because I kicked it off. Stop appologising for a bit mate, so I can be the one appologising. LFC bloody Silver mine.

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    Wot, No Preview in Britain?

    in Combat Mission Battle for Normandy

    Posted

    Was I offended? Yes. Surprised?

    Knee jerk reaction is yes surprised. But on reflection not so.

    I sincerely appologise to you. And any other offended misrepresented people of Liverpool.

    And for people who are not familiar with UK- the old and worn out jokes have little basis in statistical fact. Indeed Liverpool is statistically safer than a lot of other cities (easily google-able), but mostly pretty similar.

    Also- I live not far from Liverpool and in reality visit the City that has several attractions, LFC. And the City has a better atmosphere than some I've been to.

    Other Means- sorry.

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    CM:BN Beta AAR/DAR Bois de Baugin US side

    in Combat Mission Battle for Normandy

    Posted

    Elvis

    I was making a joke when I when I referred to your troops as being in the quartermaster corp.

    In my military career I spent some time in the catering platoon. I don't understand why, but I was sent on a cooking course at the Army Cooking School. I heard lots of stories about cooks in the Vietnam war. I was told all the rear echolon personel (including the cooks) were issued with rifles and were expected to do picket duty (albeit in the rear).

    Of course, they wouldn't have been sent to the front line.

    I knew a catering Corps guy who got drafted onto the streets in NI when they needed every swinging d*ck in the field. He survived being hit by a petrol bomb. Every now and again he'd wear his partially charred combat jacket on parade, waite for a noob sergeant major to start bollocking to get another opportunity to 'swing a lantern' and tell his war story much to the amusement of our unit's new guys.

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    Wot, No Preview in Britain?

    in Combat Mission Battle for Normandy

    Posted

    Surely it should be where the most UK members hail from? ;-p

    I'm in the North East anymore Northerners?

    I have a noble friend that was looking at a phd around warrior traits in societies. I think he was saying higher % up north. Plus petrol's even more expensive down south.

    Disclaimer- had a mate who ran UK wide business and in the end the Liverpool area was the only zone he barred standard 30 day business credit to. So North west excluding a zone that was alledged as "theiving scouse gypsy land."

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    Wot, No Preview in Britain?

    in Combat Mission Battle for Normandy

    Posted

    I'm pretty sure your post is not entirely serious, but just in case someone comes along, sees this post, and doesn't read anything else and throws a tantrum, there WILL be Brits in the first module for CM:BN. ;)

    First module, globule. Make the Brits wait again, maybe there's some old fashioned bias like we all be drinking tea on a hill waiting for the SS to show up in the same module. If there was no descrimination they would take into account of the UK's highest travel costs in the universe and facilitate several. Plus most of us don't want the VD award.

    Oh and the answer; maybe not many Brit beta testers, hmmm so that's how it is. Britishism at it's most incideous.

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