Liam

SeaMonkey, I have not put my heart into an AAR as of late, I would if the game had a bit higher stakes than this one. I love the immense battles, the back and forth tug-a-rope balance of gameplay. That is the feel of a wargame that SC does offer in both releases. It's just Terif doesn't offer much of this as his game is too flawless usually to be dragged on into a campaign unless you're the second best player. I have to say this was by far one of the more enjoyable games I've played. I should have screenshots and I should work John on here into giving a report himself. He must be incredibly happy to have defeated me. I built up no Defense in France, he bombarded Normandy into submission. Air-Naval and followed by a good land assualt. I didn't deploy my forces properly at the front and Bordeaux gave in too easily, those twin cities give an excellent launching ground you have to defend Bordeaux if you want to keep French breakout from happening, they can bring in the American and British Armies or station their Air safely behind the lines, Once The Allies were setup in Western France, Paris was ripe and the Mountains in Vichy are good for Cover. I still held onto Eastern France nearly till the end and the Siegfried was a good launching position. Problem was that Allied air had free range between Paris and the Siegfried. I should've brought advanced Axis air from the Eastern Front, fortifications wouldn't have been practical, I didn't have the time to build them. The Axis Navy is best held for special missions. Axis had too much MPPs in the bank, but strategic position began to fall, MPPs were nolonger important. They could not dish out enough units in the right locations to do anything meaningful. I replaced everything Rambo Killed. Best defense I could offer was 10 units mixed Italian-German. 1 Luftflotte, if I had brought just some of the Eastern Units I would've pushed the Allies into the Sea before the breakout of Paris. Allied Bombers hurt my resupply efforts and my attempt to crush Russia in 1943 failed, it was slowed by bad weather. Infrastructure made no difference, I needed to crush the West reoperate East and Crush the East.. But the Russians by '44 were too entrenched, Rostov Line-fortifications to Stalingrad made it impossible with Supply to crush them. I was caught divided and attempted to Flank over the Volga near Kuybyshev but Supply there weas down to 4 even with Manstein. In the end John had retreated behind the Rivers here and planned for a long counteroffensive once he had several level 4 tanks. Weak Supply and Out in the open my units were vulnerable to counterattack, it was much like the Encirclements that happened historically, except on a Grander Scale. 2 Million Germans were caught in a pocket, and they were withered away and bringing up reinforcements was too slow to stem the tide. I had the Strength, experience, MPPs but a bad tactial position to keep the flow going I needed more time, more supply and likely more men. [ October 08, 2006, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

Ahhh to be honest, this was fairly historical in comparison with gamey tactic employed to shorten the war. It must've been close to 1945. The Russians were destroyed on the Ground in 1941-42... There was only remnants of them behind Rivers, hiding in the Mountains.. Where Axis Supply couldn't kill them. We had Ahistorical Longe Range Fighters for Germany, Level3 in fact.. I thought that on it's own would have the man Rambo Surrender. Every ME-109 Pilot flying in several our Squadrons were aces.. That meant anything the Allies sent up were immediately shot down, 5 Bars on many LW units....... Our Panthers were just fine, but by the time our Tigers were on the assembly line, the Winter set in. Couldn't rush the Russians in 1943, they had the Winter to fall back on, and through Spring reissued many units the frontline lost in the previous years of War. That was it for my Axis, the advantage ended there. Supply was atrocious in the Stalingrad Sector, 5-6 at best 7... vs that of the Russians, even Experience doesn't much matter. In the West, we had the advantage, in numbers but not two airforces. Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iraq, North Africa, Switzerland, All Former Vichy states, were conquored. No help... We needed those OilFields in Russia.. England was vis gripped by combined Italian and German U-Boat Blockades. The Kriegsmarine stayed in Port all Game as the Allies fleet was much too strong and stayed home to protect England. Early the Axis could've more easily taken England than Russia The fatale flaw in the Axis Strategy, killing lots of Red Soldiers and capturing 75% of their territory without getting the Caucasus was useless. SC2 is definitely not Historical, but this game if you watched the progression, the tank battles, the liberation of France... The Allied Juggernaut through the Mediterrenean, very interesting, a more historic feel

Agreed Minty about the fact Peace for the British was about as elusive as Peace for the Americans. We had on our split in Government regarding the War and an internal conflict: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1940 FDR wanted to extend his reign as President for a Third Term, beyond our laws and people were worried that he may involve the USA in a second War in Europe. Noone wanted this, he promised not to, and actually held out on the poor Brits, but there was a definite threat to his leadership. His Primary contender was VERY ANTI-WAR had he been elected, HELL with Lendlease and hell with the Brits... Aside from a Declaration of War on the USA there wouldn't have been a Joint effort. It is very likely the british would've been better off dealing with Hitler, but that would've met the end of the World. It would've kept their empire in tact for the time being. Many I'm certian in England knew that longterm it meant economic ruins to defy Hitler in the UK. Fracture of Empire, as she needed her Navy and Army to mantain such a fragile large grip on the world. With an Psycho in Europe, noone would've contended against British Imperialism in Africa, India, etc... Though who is to say the Japanese wouldn't have dismantled the Richest part of the brits, India for themselves. Either way the British were bound to lose out some... I do know what it was like in England in the 50s, my Dad has told me, still rationed, well into the 60s and the ole saying goes, "English eat meat once a week, American's don't " Many American's do not understand that Churchill was their savour and though he did look out for some British Interests, he put them aside to stand up to Hitler. Stalin was a clever little man, played Rosevelt. The British were bound to fall eventually, at least their sacrifice was for the World and they should be remebered nobally for their contribution rather for the Evils they've committed in their ascent to Empire.

As far I can tell so far, the Morale Boost attack of the Axis is a deadly knock out blow and a good patch. I have seen it personally several times, finally figured out with a little Help from my Friends, to CounterDOW to prevent 350% Morale by the time I see 5 Axis Corps and 1 or 2 Armor outside of Moscow-Stalingrad... 7 turns is a longgggg time if you don't know what to expect as the Reds. That sort of Morale evaporates the Red Army, you should have the option to rebuild it in the time th Russians did Historically if they allow such a thing, and stretch the Map to Tactical Level! Heh! The Counter, is DOWing Minors, giving into Axis Aggression. Sounds bad, and it is, THE MPPs will then swing to Axis. However, if you were lucky with tech and diplo, the UK, USA will be ready to invade France or elsewhere early and take pressure of the Reds. Terif is not just good at taking down the Minors he has a keen sense about what you're doing and know's exactly where he will place himself for his counterstrike just about.. I have only ever killed his valuable units about 1 in 10 games maybe 1 in 8 rare for him to make errors. It's rare anyone will kill my airfleets for instance.. or HQs... You have to know what units you sacrifice and what units to withhold.. If this bug is removed, which it is sorta a bug. 500% morale plus is not Blitzkrieg it's Alien Invasion, the game will slow down and once again the Axis will have to discover a Counter to the Massive Production and Might of the Allies

Read some trash talk about Cost of War. The first book I read said this: The cost of the war couldn't be calculated, whole towns and whole villages were removed off the map for eternity. No record or evidence that they'd ever existed remained! The British had to pay to fight their primary enemy in 1940 The Americans paid to fight the Russians It's a balance thing of Great Powers, however American's survived the Russians, The British Empire did not survive the Germans.

1st Loss to any player unless Terif in nearly 3 months Rambo Finally defeats Liam's Panzer's... Just as the new Tigers were introduced to the frontlines with 88s Maxed out tech, my units just 100 miles outside of Stalingrad, the newly formed Capitol of the USSR, couldn't keep up the Juggernaut. Though the Luftwaffe ruled in the Air, the Mass Production of the USA and combined UK proved to be too much for my superior Army and Airforce. Maxed out landtechs and air techs, the Americans came in with remarkable Naval techs unheard of rendering the Axis fleets useless. Liberating France, Vichy and for a short time Switzerland... Then purchasing Franco's entry, there was no way out for the Germans, the Entire Western Front was a haze. We should've operated back to destroy the fledgeling Allies before they grew too strong, but alas that was not to be.. Plus we were looking for a knockout blow agains the Russians, never came.. We destroy much of them but just like red ants, they picked this grey elephant to the bone.

Precisely, the man was a genius about getting a bunch of Germans to Rally to a cause. However he had no concept of what warfare big time entailed. Germany had limited capabilities for a long war, two fronts are irrelevent with blitzkrieg. Attrittion sucks your manpower, kills you. With Blitzkrieg you must kill your enemy quick if not you die.. I.E. Russia, initially Blitz, then frozen stiff into a DeathKrieg. Not men, equipment, or weather. Not leadership, all...

Crushed Rambo in 1 game as Allies.. Seems Allies played right are pretty Strong in SC 1.4 patch, almost as Strong as the Axis and if you're really good, stronger! and lucky The Axis cannot make errors We're on a second set of games, mirror..... Axis vs his Allies, Soviet Union is a bloodbath, we have the last stand in the South, over Rostov and nearing Stalingrad, I have captured Vornezeh*sp and I'm moving in on his Entrenchments and Tanks in the Caucasus blocking my pathway to total victory... In the North he has a STRONG army but I will hold Moscow despite being repulsed from the deep interior of Russia.. In the West the Allies are full swing of D-Day, Allied Airpower dominates France but Axis ground forces haven't given 1 inch In our Mirror Game. I'm A Monster Allied player again.. Axis are trudging along making blunders.. I will Crush him

Thanks for the Kudos JJ fact is about all I said, when I was tired and much typos.. It's fairly true, I'm no expert but the way the war was run I honestly think some of us armchair generals would've done a fair job in comparison with those actual generals. Though we have almost every book written by those WW2 Generals and many Analysts.. Poor Frenchies, they weren't bad soldiers. I hear they were poorly Paid? Am I right, they were also not properly setup due to the Budget for the Maginot and the backwards thinking, rather than backwards Gears of the Frenchie Tanks. Great Armor, the best in the World.. I do not know if my WW2online Simulator is correct, but the Beautiful round armor, so thick that it would take a 88 to penetrate it is awesome.. better guns.. Yes Lower calibre do take them, but it is almost impossible without a flanking shot. Those Germans my Friends were good! Very good! Lots of Training, I wonder if the Frenchies had that? I hear that the Germans were the most disciplined and Well Trained Soldiers of WW2 until of course you begin to talk about American Airborne and the like? All questions though, comparing one man to the next is no comparison. Italians didn't want that war, they had nothing to gain. A few brave Italians themselves a part however ultimately their Dictator was a Joke and their Role in WW2 would turn out to be one too. France's errors were so inbedded in yesterday they were flanked, cut off, and not even unloaded by the time the Real War came. In our Actual WW2online Sim, we replay it if the Allies had properly prepared and they DO WELL! Great ATGS, Great Tanks, Great Planes.. All in all a soldier is a soldier.. No need to knock them In my Personal opinion, the French may have not had the heart for a Second War, the first they lost more than any of the Western Allies, they also humiliated Germany along with Belgium..they Karmically reaped what they sowed. No Adolf Hitler could've came to power in a Healthy German Republic, so bankrupt from repaying these two guys. Blame the Diplomats of the UK and France and the lack of hindsight. Not the simple soldier P.S. Read up in this topic besides my responce, my views are echoed in some of our comrades views. I see that many believe the French were beaten up and tired to lose more men to yet another war, Though being occuppied would've been unacceptable to True Frenchmen.. I doubt that this Defeatist attitude some portray them as having is the actual truth. I'm sure they thought they could rally a defense similar to the one they had done, ferrying Troops in taxicabs to defend Paris pushing the Germans back in some brilliant Manuevers German's were Nationalistic, they were not Lovers, they were Fighters. They were very Ambitious. Humiliation and degredation and death I think only increases ones resolve. You kill 1000 Al Qeida(sp you bread 10,000 as those 1000 become Martyrs and so fourth I do not believe tired is Death on this scale, not even the Civil War. Tired is Weariness, suffering, and even worse than death men without arms, legs..etc... Saw a British Propaganda Film of all the poor boys returned, hundreds parading their missing limbs.. Quite sad, many suffered in WW1.. All that Hate, all that pent up emotion would've been better of released.. Just How? Justice, Hitler offered it.........and total self-destruction Fact is there was no brilliance to be had, sadly, no time for it either. Think even in SC terms, if you had 2 Armored Armies a Degaulle HQ, all Frenchies full strength. All units upgraded. Plus real Spitfires protecting the Front with HQ, which the Limeys never comitted.. You might have, if you could defend aline from Belgium down through the Ardenne to the Maginot a decent chance, you'd need less units, at least.. [ October 04, 2006, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

This topic has been discussed before as to why the Allies won. I think that it wasn't as simple as numbers. The Axis had the Edge and early expansions in Military Doctrine and having conquored vast tracts of territory. By 1942 onward it what pretty much a reverse as Allied Nations mobilized and countered with their understanding of Modern Warfare and at that point Germany and Japan had there last moments in the LimeLight.. Numbers definitely did make the Difference and Russians had been battered to death and had learned how to fight this insurmountable foe. Much like SC2, the Axis pushed her back thousands of miles and the Axis really couldn't lock the Jaws on the Huge Russian Army. She found herself split in her goals to close the Deal so to speak and she certianly could of, I do not think that Any good War Historian would disagree the Germans blundered throughout later '41 and into '42.. Splitting Forces too much, countering orders As far as the Minor Conquests, there were blunders on behalf of the French and British, not properly handle diplomacy nor the situation at hand. They were unprepared for WW2 in 1940 and that primarily why they both nearly ended there, which could've been it... Noone is for certian what Stalin may have done without the UK... Doubtful it would be an SC2 Story. Anyone who thinks that Sea Lion was impossible, visit the various PillBoxes in my Ancestoral home, they litter the landscape and are a sorta of Landmark and fun spot to visit for Hobbyists Really there would've been the DoverWall, in preparation for the German Onslaught The Japanese are a different story, too divided in their Military decisionmaking, too afraid to strike out at the High Command Level, too insane at the lower Command Level. They did some great initial conquests but soon faltered without any sort of plan to rule this Massive Territory they'd conquested Their fate would've been that of subordinate to the German's had UK or USSR fallen, they would've consolidated perhaps later though Germany very well my friends, could've conquored a Majority of the Known World and BELIEVE me, the US would've dealt with Hitler. One way or the other, the Technology didn't exist to resist him 1941 and 1942, i.e. a Nuclear Bomb or even Long Range Bombers.. We'd of likely accepted the inevitable as a Minor Western Nation... Neutral and friendly to the New Axis Giant The World would look very odd, Pax Germania 2/3rds of the Steppe converted into Liebenstrom, France a German Bitch so to speak, England the same... Italy would've gotten a huge chunk of it's former greatness, a new Roman Empire.. Spain, Turkey would've thrown their lot in as well as many MiddlEastern Nations... Cooperative Axis Allies, as most the World Fought the Oppressive Axis Regimes, most would've sided to avoid being destroyed.. Netherlands being bombed was the first sign of what happens to those who resist the Nazis, they couldn't make up their mind to surrender did and still got bombed! Numbers did count, Oil, mass production, numbers. Though Superior leadership and better choice of equipment is as powerful, look at 100 thousand Americans able to whip the Iraqis, I bet you, that 50 thousand Americans could've knocked out 3 qtrs of a million Iraqis, with thousands of tanks and Aircraft. Perhaps 400-500 ourselves... A stark comparison, many of these Nations had better equipment though not readily availabe and not deployed properly and with incompetent men at the Helm.. The Germans had an Open Door to victory in 1941 they were unable to seize it, they had a Meglomaniac in their Leadership and he was No Napoleon

My RolePlay of the Legend-ary Battle vs the Liam-Lion Axis Juggernaut: XIX Panzer Armee Overviewing his Panzer Formation now stationed on the Coal Mines in the Donetz, Liam reviews it's battle weary Scars, twice now, to the lastest Armor for the German Empire, the Panzer Mark IV Series. This Panzer Army had known much combat in France with the destruction of the 3rd and 4th armies collectively. Also in crushing through the Maginot, basically leading the charge and flanking with a Brilliance in a way never forseen on a battlefield. The First true Armored Fighting Machine of it's era at juggernaut size and impact! Von Runstedt's Baby, who had gained much experience with her as his subordinate. She had served well in Sweden also in Norway capturing Port Trondheim from the British in their weak attempt to prevent the inevitable in Norway. The Scandanavian Campaign was no challenge as would soon come... Near 2 full experience Bars, she entered service in the Barbarossa campaign late, as the Germans reorganized their armies for a proper penetration pre-Winter to take full effect of nice compact hard European Soil. These treads always perform poorly on Clay, moist soil and or on ice. Aside from the Ice still giving her the ability to withdrawl or Encircle! She had captured Leningrad, destroyed the People's Corps 31st of the Soviet Socialist Republic. Pushed on Moscow but did not take direct action on the Capitol, left that to her Brother's in Sister's of the Wehrmacht to do the ground work in cities where her mobility may be hampered... Though not the only OutPerforming Armor of the Elite Panzer Units she was world renowned, a Prize for any Sturmovik pilot brave enough to attempt to crush this Prize! Now reorganized and stationed to the South, this is not terrain that our armored armies have been accustomed... A Great Battle Awaits with the Fall of the Soviet Capitol and the deep penetrations through the late Fall of '42 all the way to Gorky in the North and Encircling the Artic Soviet Regions of Supply from the West at Archangel, though too well defended and too remote for our Panzers to assault... We decided upon a new battlefield near Rostov the new Entrenched Line of the Soviet Last Stand! Now with Paris threatened in the West by the Allies, this is the End Game! The Battle of All Battles. Shall we redeploy our famous armor to combat the American's... Or stay and fight the Russians, behind their Barbed Wire, Ditches, Tank traps! An impossible boundary between Rostov and the newly formed Capitol of Stalingrad here comes Hell Rambo! Add your little two cents

You're correct JJ and for a brief period the Italians blundered by not following up to investigate...

Liam won first Allied game, rematch Liam Allies once more: 1939: Typical Run of it, Germans take down Poland, Operate West to take down Benelux-France. The Job is well upon it's way. Meanwhile the Brits capture Norway, and Denmark remains Neutral. Plus British Politicians convince Iraq to Serve the Royalty and shipments of Crude Oil rush in just in time to save the Admiralty from disaster... German U-Boats operating and invisible in the North Atlantic. Spanish Ambassador Jumps in the lap of the Germans, jumping over 30plus Percent in 1 turn!!! Right Now Feb: 1940 French Winter halts temporarily the German Juggernaut. 1 German Army dies, 3 French have already fallen... The French Airforce disbanded to to use it's spare parts to refit the DCR Tank Army in the defense of Paris. It's mud now and without Luck good chance Paris may fall next month!

True Scook, but Gus Hansen probably won't win much at SC2 vs a Terif type Character. Sure Super Subs will kill the Allies or level 5 Tanks in 1940 might do wonders but it will not win every game... Just a few... Unless of course in SC2 he's as lucky as he is in Poker P.S. When I thought I had a French Fleet Bug from Moving into the Artic, 4 Paris Battleships out of 5 survived with a 1/5 chance. Also when I did my first BetaTest all but 2 French Ships and transports survived. So Of course Luck can be Huge in this game. Imagine those Multiplied Attack points taking down a miracle target But you have get to get there first [ September 26, 2006, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

It's amazing the English supplied Malta, I know a great deal was lost and the strategic significance of Malta definitely was not as large the effort on both sides to control it. Malta wouldn't have ensured perfect supply lines for the Germans and it was such a costly defensive position for the British it wasn't worth holding. However toward the end of the North African Campaign, I'm certian Malta was a bit more vital, considering it was relatively close to Tunisia and the fighting.. Good Fighter-Bomber base. Still probably most German Troop Transport Airplanes were shot down from A/C based in North Africa, not the tiny Malta. Which could barely hold itself together let alone disrupt supplies of the Axis in the early days.. The British had good longe range Bombers, I am guessing the Swordfish must've been one of their few Torpedoe Sea attack planes.. Aside from those used in North Africa? Not sure on British Carrier design. The Trip from Gibraltar to Malta was a deadly one. Not just spied, Italians and German's in the Air... Amazing All the Resources Germany expended in Malta when she was losing on the Eastern Front?

Absolutely Retri: this is a Gambling Poker game with the better players almost 30% I'd say is all on the gut instinct. once you know the moves and the dos and don'ts.. You're planning to hit that IW3 by Barby and if you don't then you're toast.. You can retreat all you like if like doesn't favor you at all you're toast. I have played games where 5 chits in IW over 3 years bought 1 IW then again SC2 in another fashion is nothing like Poker, which is 10% skill and 90% luck.. If it were so much that way I'd have at least 50/50 chance of beating Terif every time. Since I'm a better Poker player more 55/45

It is the case, really need Terif to honestly answer here as he and I experienced it first with 1.3 then it happened again in 1.4. With Rambo also, and it happened nearly every time. It seems so far HC all players attempting to load Allies from a converted PBEM to Network game gets an error. Not Hotseat, Terif did that fine when we had our first incident. The Error is if your opponent is Axis he is requested to enter an Allied Password. I could be wrong if it is just for 1 side. What normally do is have the player resend the turn, and then viola it works...We're not finishing the turn on the other end then attempting to load up from there as a network game.. If a BetaTester would like you may reach me at TMSFORMS@AOL.COM, they can send me an E-mail game and I'll show them. Perform a turn or two and then convert it to IP and I will see if it occurs with other players than Rambo and Terif The error I get is a segmentation violation and the Password is bogus.. then kicked back to the Mainscreen, and the Resolutions are off and the screen is all black.. it doesn't happen when you try to just load the wrong save in a already existing IP game. Only when converted from E-mail game to IP Game

Fact is how many Generals died in the field in WW2? That wasn't due to sucide or assasination, it is more likely your own Country will kill your HQ and the Commander, Smart Commanders in History did ride at the head of their Army to show bravery, but wisely retreated to the rear when it got thick to avoid dying. Being that when they die so does the morale of the unit. I am unaware of 1 of the Generals listed in SC2 of the Germans that was killed in WW2, most certianly none of the British... The percentage chance to kill a General if you destroy his HQ would be probably very very low As mentioned by Gungho, It is more represents the overall organizational value of a Unit operating 5 units beneath it then a true General itself, the name just indicates the value to that operational HeadQuarters.

Really pretty and cosmetic my friend I almost wouldn't mind, would make for great AARs

You're wrong about one point, you should attack even if he can withdrawl, but have the units to fill in the cracks in your lines if he should counter attack and you do not wish to lose what you committed to the field. Also Recon the area to see if he's planning a counter or has reserves, otherwise what's wrong with an attack? You yourself, may retreat as well... But you force his hand, he will counter and gamble to take out your forces if you planned the attack well....or he operates out and pays the morale cost and the operational cost and then he must reinforce, relocate and work his way back into the field, all costly... Retreating costs too! Especially on the Russian Front and in a way on the Normandy-Western Front later in the War.. It does become a war of attrittion and cash is not the key alone, I beat plenty of players who have more units and more cash, because they didn't spend their booty right, and they're units are weak and I keep killing them as they produce them.. Strategic Position can be as important in the long run as Cash, as the Axis find themselves in 1941 right before Barby in SC2 It is the key to not just victory but also to the MPP advantage in the long run... They had to plan effectively to get there that is, not just attacking it's knowing when, where and how to attack..and when where not to defend You think it wise, to sacrifice 5 corps if it buys you 25 turns of 50MPPs? Think of the that a moment for defense and whether it works or not. Think of Brest Bordeaux region defense parameter it all makes sense.. not always possible vs an able Oponent

Yes, I hear what you're saying Shawn, real insightful for a Politician, not real practical though. You have a bunch of Quebecers who do not identify with the Canadian Government. A few extremists that make them look bad and basically there goes the AppleCart. Socialists do not appeal to the masses and since Quebec is now integrated with English and other races that what in the Major cities make up nearly half the population now? Not that of 50-100 years ago when seperation would be impossible. It is true what the Extremist Socialists in Quebec side it is the Minorities and Immigrants that have caused Quebec to Remain part of Canada. Clinton Threatened that he would not let QC seperate Canada is not as bad as USA, but it's also 1/10th the population and a lot less minorities. The Minorities within Quebec are primarily European and that isn't the lot that is going to cause issues. The USA is stifled with an ex-slave population, MASSIVE immigration from the Latin Nations of Middle and Southern America equal to your Population in both categories. Try Dealing That? The border with Mexico cannot be patroled and it is in the end cheap labour for our Rich LandOwners in California who rely on agriculture and that Race to Flourish Likely. However the Cultural and Racial conflicts do stem from it anyways and especially for those who are not forunate.. I like CCR's song, "It ain't me, It ain't me! I ain't no Senator's Son! It ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, yeah, come on!" Canada is not the Great Issue that the USA is, though I have been in personal and close contact with your your Seperatists and they do not like the way they're treated. There are probably Millions of Quebecers who loathe the fact they must learn English and most English cannot speak French. As far as your social system, yeah great medicine, everyone gets help. That is good! Dreadful Social system for children, worse than the USA. Cheap Lockups, they put Youth Offenders in Montreal and in rest of Eastern Regional Canada in with Troubled Kids(innocent kids that have parents that beat and molest them) and then I will not go on to explain what you obviously no nothing of in your own country. Not gloating my country has had it's bugs too. Noone cares, oddly enough, Dans La Rue, Pops one of the few Catholic Priests on the Streets of Montreal attempting to do something, to make changes. They closed down a few old Detention centers but reopened them under a different name. You know what you get for Selling Drugs in Canada? Or for Other Various Sex Crimes! I have heard of this case of a male visiting Public Swimming pools in Montreal and molesting kids. The judge ordered, "No More visits to public swimming pools for you!" You're prisons are overpopulated, Yeah Canada is fortunate if you are... but I'll stay in the USA if I am not! Otherwise I am not confidant after the stories I've heard! Better have Two Parents that love you in Canada I'm just saying that much. I've heard the testimony of Youth and I will hear some more and hope to understand some more.. I've lived in the Armpit of the USA, Southern States with Welfare CrackHeads all over, not nearly as Sad sounding as Canada.. I hear Toronto, Vancouver are just as bad if not worse in some aspects.."8 year old boys hooking for 10 bucks to get cocaine!" Unthinkgable in the good ole USA Do not claim you do not have your "bugs" so to speak... Sad thought, I'd look into the Darker Area your Canadian Cities, Biker run gangs.. Misplaced runaway Youth, Tens of thousands of streetwalking Prostitutes.. Yeah it's beautiful, it's pristeen and clean but it's a rottens system and it's going to go, "Down!" USA needs something, probably will be a Mexican President by the year 2020 I'd rather be here Honestly after hearing it all! Objectively and completely

Agreed to some level whoever created Canada (Bloody English probably) didn't think of the fact there is a huge French population on the East Coast. I know about your near miss in seperation. Then again blame it on the French Indian-Napoleonic Wars..would've cost the Freedom of French people there either way. Montreal was a real somber view of Canada. Meanwhile the rest was basically an olive branch. I didn't miss anything in that town. It possesses an Amsterdam like appeal to it if you're in the wrong/right district. Not like the USA. I notice all the Frenchies there gave me that look as if I were an "American on Tour," and were quite happy for the export of unlimited drugs,sex and whatever else money can buy! I didn't even get my feet wet either, I'm certian it makes my Little Southern towns down here look boring! Free Trade alone isn't what is killing you, it's the fact that Mexican's and Chinese are making it a lot cheaper. In 50 years when their economies match your own it'll be manfactured in the Sudan, cheap labour is all the craze that or Robots! So I say get into Robotics, get rid of the foreign market! Plants can be grown indoors by the way

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I agree, I notice just like the USA you guys import a lot! NAFTA has only ruined your dollar. On my recent trip to Quebec I couldn't help but notice everything was overpriced and that taxes was outrageous, what is it? 30% plus! If you buy from the USA it is even worse, a punishment Tax. Canada is backwards but they give out Welfare to their Minorities who run their Children prisons who are underfunded and undersupervised and care nothing about their Children! ::smiles:: Reminds me of the USA and I thought I should move to Canada and rid myself of the Dirt and Filfth here in the USA! Well, just goes to show every nation has it's dirt. Is there any such thing as Utopia, no! Can you avoid world trade, absolutely not! The Canadian Government is finally got a decent Dollar, I think it's all the charges at the Door.. How do you guys make money? I paid 1.50 for a COKE! Jesus! Nowonder you're making money, the Government forces you to pay out the rear for everything... In the Good Ole USA there was a time when Quality was cheap, not just quantity, now we lost the Quality. We're trying to get it back and to be quite Honest you our Canadian Brothers are divided pretty much as far as I can tell.. Your Local Frenchies hate your Englishmen, your 10-20% imported in Quebec Italians Russians hate the English too. The English Hate the Foreigners and bring in the Haitians... It's all mixed up, a Mini-USA in the Making. Watches your Minority, Social System and Government screw ups match the USA's.. and giggles, I thought it was all different I saw a National Geographic back in the 80s of what a Vancouver Suburb looked like, 20,000 needles laying about.. IV drug use we cannot touch, in just one Park.. Still I think you're less likely to get Shot in Canada, then again I just heard you guys had your own Columbine Lordy, the World is becoming so Universal. "It's not I'm turning Japanese anymore, I really think so!" It's, "I'm turning Universal Commercial I really think so!" Let's go back to some tradition! Let's get back to our Roots! What happened to the strong idealistic Youth that created these New Worlds? The Men that founded the Pillars of our Societies, throughout the World From Rome, to Shores of Virginia..... ::Sad look stares out into space:: Perhaps it's not the countries, or the politicians, rather culture is suffering from a lack of Humanity! Out with T.V.s Out with Consumerism, let's get rid of our PCs, and make a real difference, countries, self substenance doesn't matter. We need to something More, God I'm being a Hypocrite, I haven't did a Public Service since 1997 ""looks down"" Well, Maybe soon I'll change the World for the better join in folks Join Amnesty International, volunteer, give money to the poor and change your World and Uhhh, Like me stop complaining on a BF Bulletin Board about it all hehehehehehhehehe Goes and destroys Scook In MultiPlayer! Die SCOOK DIE! Hehehehhe, Don't be so serious I guess

Well, if we're murdering and raping children in Iran, I suppose we should follow good Ole Russia's lead, I Quote From the Government of Russian Federation, "IF a Father wants to sell his daughter it's his own business, if that finances the war then so be it! If Policeman here captivate and Rape, mutilate, torture and kill our Daughters, it is because there Mother's talked too much! You best beware, Do not come to the Russian Federation you will be targeted too!" That is from a Government letter my Girlfriend wrote for Amnesty International to the Russian President (Hmmmm, Dictator) Tens of thousands of what you say our troops are doing is going on in a Nation a few hundreds miles north, and what you're talking of is probably is about 10 or 20 cases... Isolated..Amnesty writes about what you're talking of, it is mostly due to the Governments in those nations allowing it. You think that our operatives do much in Iran without their Governmental Consent? Hardly! Right now there is 12 year old girls being sold into sexual slavery in the European Union. Little Children used as Soldiers and Slave Labourers. 1 in 4 Norwegian Wives are beaten regularly by their husbands to the third degree, you should see the slogan for Tourists to the country. The Domestic Violence in France makes us Americans look like RearEnd Kissers to our wives. I'm shocked that we have such a Liberated Nation. American's have no clue just how easy they have it and how good, it's a nowonder they take it for granted and people like you knock them. You do not know the value of Freedom, likely have never loss or fought for. I have Several Family members Ex-Veterans and not from 1812! Recently! I am not even scratching the surface of what goes on around the world. "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones! I am only mentioning 1/20th of what is going on in these countries! Try to make a difference and you too will be silenced, and I'll point my finger at my Government, they just don't care and by the way they support it to a degree! but of course that is not on CNN!"