Liam

As for a surrender, I think it would be a difficult code. Few Wargames I've played have one and just consider casualties along with wounded POWs, MIAs... I have suggested a slow diminishment of a Unit that is 0 supply to represent desertion, disease and famine... Say 10% per turn... i do not know if this will ever be implemented for a Strategic Wargame however. Could represent some Surrendering Units, bit by bit... without actual combat giving Occuppied Zones more realism.

IT Tech is a big gamble with the USSR and their limited Tech Research, in earlier patches there wasn't the cap there is now on Russian research so if you sacrifice IW or AT for IT/Prod it could cost you. The USA is a little safer as you know that they're unlikely to join the war till later... My Typical USA has IT3-4 She is a loner nation and needs every dime unless you are going to go for an early aggressive West Strategy

Right now the Russians fortified up in the Urals with about 20 units, and have held out there for nearly 6 months. Shows what you can do with a Good Fortification... No Axis Air, land combo has been easily able to crack this. However There are very little holes in the Axis Garrisons in the West, I have been hunting them up and as you've heard there is no where for the British and Americans to get in. It is tough to send the doughboys in on suicide missions.

Liam (Allies) Terif (Axis) 1939-1942: Germany raises it's Iron Cross over Europe, until they meet the Russians on the battlefield in the Summer of '41. The British with Churchill on their Island refuses to do battle with the Axis after the humiliating loss of Egypt and the MiddleEast. Though Promises endless economic aide to Stalin until Wars end. This is realized but cut off by a German assualt in '42. Turkey is brought into the War, Russian Garrisons take up position on the border there, advanced German Paratroopers, Mountain Troops along with endless Armored Columns from the MiddleEast pour in from Syria-Iraq and swallow the Massive Nation. After this the Greatest Battle in History occurs... Millions of Fresh Russians enter the Mountains in the Caucasus to defend the Motherland's Natural Oil Resources to the death, but the Luftwaffe and advanced German Army slowly crushes the Russians, like a meatgrinder... The entire Russian army Freezes in the Mountains there and some shattered remnants retake up positions in the Urals, all experienced Mountain troops... Apparently this German Commander prepared his Soldiers for Mountain Fighting and gave them excellent Coats! In West the USA and UK combine together with their greatest Scientific Minds and figure the only way to retake Europe would be not to sacrifice one Army Soldier and spend the entirety of their countries combined income on A-Bombs and Super Bombers of all kinds. Which are brought to bare on Berlin... Though nothing atomic is created, the city is burned to the ground in a firestorm unparalleled in history. FDR claims,"if we cannot reconquor Europe we shall kill every last able German..." This of course is only a Theory and has yet to proved for the comming Year FireStorms shall erupt all over Germany and the occuppied nations, Tens of thousands of Allied Bombers pouring out endless bombs... Axis so far only show resolve and unfettered Will...

Nice War you guys have going here. I would really have loved to be part of this game... Seems both sides have a lot of play-options

Rambo loves rockets. They are hard to beat with the range and experience they find the target all too often. I had a game where he put a good dozen of those in Forts in the Rear beyond Moscow all the way painted through Stalingrad. The Russians were fighterless but the Rockets kept my land forces from advancing at all. I had to use Turkey to end the game because he couldn't post rocket defense on all the fronts. They're a little overpowered if you ask me, but I suppose 5 bar fighters are too

SeaMonkey, I was eyeing that AAR with interest, I will check it out now that you point out the quality of game that it is. Sounds quite interesting. Indeed, for many the openings in all those various scenarios and strategies you pointed out can be a pitfall! I have lost a few games that way but you will lose making errors and never repeat those. Generally I find that a lack of Aggression and Will to manuever a bad combo. I do not think that a Defensive Strategy does you any good in SC2, worse than SC1. In that game the Conservative player usually could finish 2nd dependant on the side he chose. I know all this because I'm overly cautious and overly defensive and well known for it. I've out waited players like Rambo quite often and several others usually taking the Victory that way. I do take the iniative in the end though. SC2 requires that you think a bit ahead of time, the Map is real large and you should be planning for effective strategies and gambling a little if neccessary to win. Iron Ranger may be right that the tactical side has taken a much larger role in SC2 and even more in the next package. You've got so many units and so much space, and this isn't Axis & Allies so we shouldn't expect much else from it. Fact is once you know the exact moves to make,it is about strategy and not tactics but boy is this game complicated beyond most of our understanding. That is why Terif has only what 2 or 3 defeats in Panzerliga, he has a dictionary type knowledge of tiles, percentages, manuevers... I opened up the SC2 book the other day bored, and leared 5 things I didn't even know about SC2. I wouldn't mind some additions and more IP opponents and Bravado! Game needs that bad! P.S. I have lost about 2 matches recently because I left undefended Capitols which reminds me of Axis & Allies.

A further note I on a few of my comments on basic strategy. There is really no wrong way to open for the Axis. The Allies should seize the opportunity early to build right way and defend from any dreadful easy Axis Victories. Axis: Opener usually is to either attack very hastily and take a bunch of Minors quickly. Alternatively she can wait and take the Minors Later. Usually in most competitive games she will have to take them before the opponent does and the only question how she balances her conquests. Leaving certian targets too late against the wrong opponent may leave him a loop in which he can use to delay your timelines or push you on the early defensive. I think the Axis need to be ProActive in North Africa, Spain and Scandanavia. Though also splitting all of her forces up this way will leave her weak vs the Russians, so that's why you plan for weather and for good quick offensives before the Allies React in Strength, unless you can crush this reaction fully. So you must Weigh up what is most valued for you... And do not gamble with Axis, unlike the Allies they afford less of that unless facing an incompetent opponent. Biggest errors as the Axis are Using Coastal Tiles, enemy ships do not only damage & destroy the Axis Units they reduce their combat efficiency making it easier for only units to finish off the job. Another big error with Axis is to not heed the basics. I.E. Garrisoning against Russia, Sending their Navy into suicidal missions, attempting bite off more than they can chew as this is not SC1. Territory can sacrificed or even conceded slowly if the Axis gain on another front. Terrain in SC2 has changed the face of the game, Rivers & Mountains make certian fronts quite tedious. Especially in the USSR... The worst fight for the Axis a stalemate, or to come up against a ton of Fortifications. The only way to bust through is intense air and a great deal of losses. This delaying action is a key element for the Allies...

Konigs put it well. I have to go with him on my 2 cents, on both sides the 'what if' scenario is a warn out one. There would be no Allies to produce 10 Xs what the Germans did if they hadn't had such luck. BEF lost in France would've meant little or no opposition to Sea Lion at all, and game over right then and there. In most my games, ironically Germany cannot keep up production with the USA UK Alliance and the game ends in '43 and '44....unless by this point the Axis spearheaded so deeply into the Allies there is too much damage to recover! Germany had also conquored a lot of territory, there is no reason to believe that ultimately their goals weren't larger. There are a few exceptions... Turkey is a rare exception and to prove it could be taken, the Greeks nearly did it 20 years before WW2 but ultimately the Turks drove them out. Swiss Portugal and Spain not really Axis targets along with Sweden... as these were either Allied or too small of potatoes... If at a certian timeline Allied and Axis nations sent Tribute to their Masters and there were graver consequences to landgrabbing you could do away with that aspect of the game and make landgrabbing only appealing for tactical strategic moves... Also as far as Manpower, both WW1 and WW2 revealed a weakness in that with the Germans. It's only a Nation 60 Million Aprox in WW2 even with those who threw their lot in with the Axis, the Fatherland had to rely on High Quality Armed Forces, and they were highly trained men. More rigoriously admittedly then any other WW2 Army aside than the Americans. Best equipped only to the Americans... Also argueably some of the best lead men. Manpower may not have been as big an issue outside of attrittional fronts like the Eastern Front became past Winter of '41. As the High Mobility and newly armored armies of WW2 really changed the face of warfare. Though as the Axis attempt to garrison everything, and conquor everything as far as the Artic Circle things did become tough for them... They had 200,000 men in Norway!!! It Took the Russians and Western Allies up until 1942 to have an Army worth a damned and up until 1943 until they totally surpassed the Axis... They took much too long for mobilization. Shortfall of their Governments.

It could be easy to adapt the game to the strategy, have the limits allow the building of units in regards to resources in other words... I.E. Germany a steele producer can build Big Boats or lots and lots of Tanks. But not Both. Or maybe an equal limit as exists now, gamer's choice... USSR which has everything can make everything but lacks the organization early to make to many HQs to limit her early Offensives! UK, Has HQs, has some resources to build some things and if she wants can be build 5 tanks, but at great cost as she will be short on some resources... If an active U-boat campaign is started perhaps double reflect in her build limits along with Germany a dent in her production if a Bomber campaign is pursued Just thinking how to make it more realistic but not gamebreaking. It's true though UK could built a lot more than a couple of tanks, she focused on Fighters early for airwar domination but later employed a great deal of tanks especially in Egypt. Lastly a thought is perhaps Build limits on a timetable relative to history... you can build anything virtually if you have the time to do it? Stocking up in other words much like the Germans did prewar

I think it might make sense as some antitank weapons are able to be used as antiair

Glad to hear the project is getting done and that those people who understand the Mechanics of SC2 and balance are involved refining the title as well.

There is no real rules to war because people can be ruthless to obtain their goals. War as mentioned is the last method in which we obtain our goals when politics are all failed. It's a real real brutal thing, people go as high as SuperBombs that level whole provinces to fists beating each other to death. Since we said, "Oooga Ooga!" 50,000 years ago we've had something to fight over. Whether it be the CaveWench or that BerryPatch... Man will fight because of survival and because of greed. It's coded in his DNA by this point I'd imagine and will take a Supernatural or Genetic Engineering Solution

Times don't change... If it was 200 BC and me a Jersey John were feeling blue or bitter and didn't want a form of wine or beer we'd go down to the local headshop and score some 110% legal smokeable item. That or something you drink... The end result, to get rid of what ails you. That and a fairly cheap prostitute would probably cover it if you were a Soldier and had the Gold. Boy or Girl, Age, no consequence! Now if you were weak you'd just die... God, Salvation, Honour, Righteousness has nothing to do with. None of them respect the institution of death once the Reaper Hammers on your door... If you have a door... If Rambo was stabbed in the chest, we'd pay a Doctor in those days to clean it out best they knew how, stuff some Roots in it and sew it up... and pray to our Goddess that it gets better, maybe even sacrifice a Lamb if he was well to do! Other than that, things didn't get better for couple thousand years... All the sudden someone discovers the Science of medicine and saves Millions of lives. Veterans, are screwed often, because they come from the special core of individuals that really don't matter. Lets be honest, is a Millionaire's son going to enlist in the US Army! No... Is a broke man looking for opportunity, yes! Back in the day, Medieval Knights were all Royalty, with the Armee in Mass, all those illusions of our fighting men getting VIP treatment has sort of diminished... "We came to Yankee Land, they put a Gun into our hand, Patty what you go fight for Lincoln, there is nothing here but war, what the hell am I fighting for, and I wish I was home in dear ole Dublin"

Rambo beforwarned, Depression is a disease and the cause is usually a miserable existence, some people are definitely faking but beware prejudging what is the treatment and what is the cause. Some people have been abused, tortured... some are chemically messed up... some just are lazy and lead unhappy lives... MANY Veterans are depressed, stress like that screws you up... Though you're entitled to your opinion and I agree no Happy Pill is the answer, there are many ways to treat Depression and a pill may or may not actually do you much good. Not enough research has been done on that path in my opinion. Anyway Yes, some people in need of the US system have been shafted. Some people aren't so lucky and you have to pray things work out for you. In the USA do not count on the System to help you, you might be better off on the charity of the Doctors and Health Care Workers... I have found some really honest & generous ones willing to do charity work. Taxes are for sure along with death... In Canada Medicaid is for everyone. They do have to pay for prescriptions. Their taxes on a purchase can be as high as 30%! SO I suppose the taxes pay for it. A lot of European nations are like Canada... UK, Sweden to name a few. though some claim overall healthcare suffers. Regardless of all this I have seen some of the best efforts in the USA, and if it wasn't for their social system and caring Doctors I myself may not have made it.

Generally the reason why someone like Terif Rambo or many others including myself would say do not quit!!! I'll give you a very playful scenario I'm playing this guy Taojah, who is not as good as me but he's a good player for most... I have him where I want him, Axis are about to Clamchoweder Allies into Oblivion... and I am going to do it with ease, suddenly 2 Paras drop on my unprotected German Capitols and "game over" I've had this happen more than once!

There was a screenshot done a by guy with superb supply outline! Perhaps someone might recall and dig it up... basically outlined every tile adjacent to a City or Port provides a certian amount of supply and diminishes per tile away from it... sorta invisible would be nice to see #s on the map like the grid, and there are some tricky regions where you may not know if you get supply. Always take into consideration how certian terrain also degrades supply like Mountains... You could very easily draw up your own map I'm sure with a Formula it's in the book

Terif I'm still in awe at the vision of so many aircraft in England, however couldn't this have been a potential nightmare if Rambo had performed a Sea Lion? At just the right moment least

Jim, you're right if you could keep both neutral it would benefit the Axis.. Though that is often not the case, so Sweden despite the great price is a necessary evil. You're supplied by Denmark Port so you can take Norway and Sweden with a little planning usually from England pretty easy. Most UK players will take Norway down before the onset of Snow in 1939 if you're playing competitive players

Baron I do not know the exact science but in general the more you bomb a city the less the natural defenses will hurt your next bomber runs. Heavy bombers will just be more likely to do more damage. And there is a percentage chance increase that the bomber will hit the unit on the city with heavy bombers... Also on top of this, if a resource has no unit on top of it a fighter will automatically hit the resource. The Fighter avoids AntiAir tech so it can be an advantage to use to soften a target before bombers go but they usually do not do much damage to resources especially lacking experience! A strategic bombing campaign is a nice thing, as is a precision bombing campaign used to knockout the enemies ability to operate back to defend a spot after leaving it vacant... Generally you can expect a bomber attack without much experience to take out 2 MPPs per target, several increases in HB then could mean as much as 6 MPPs Yes very deadly

Depends on who you're playing. Norway is a gateway to Sweden-Finland and control of the Baltic. So if you're playing a hotshot player I would suggest you take it if you're not it's just another place where you have to garrison more units and there are plenty of other options, even if you're playing a good player, if you can focus your firepower on another location as well, go ahead and do it. pros and cons don't matter, there is great political consequence for taking Norway. There is however with Sweden.

I have never seen such a powerful Bomber Strategy employed. 50% of Fatherlands resources hammered in to oblivion. There is no way to continue to fight on in a situation like this without having something the Allies simply couldn't counter. I do not see where Rambo afforded to enter Russia at all with all that naval investment, but I suppose he gave away North Africa and MidEast.. stripping every garrison to focus like a laserbeam on his objectives... I figuring a lot of luck granted the Axis so much leeway to build U-boats and to also build a little bit of airforce... But having no real army cost this game it seems? Regardless one of the most entertaining games I've seen Terif have to play vs an Axis opponent.

Even still folks in a historical context noone would've cared about radioactivity in the early days of WW2. So if you couldn't bring many Bombs to the table, what would they have accomplished. It is true the Soviets had their hands all in the Manhattan Project, they had a spy on the sight in New Mexico! Quote Wiki: "Born out of a small research program in 1939, the Manhattan Project eventually employed more than 130,000 people and cost nearly $2 billion USD ($23 billion in 2007 dollars based on CPI). It resulted in the creation of multiple production and research sites that operated in secret." 23 billion in WW2 terms may have purchased the equivelant of the entire Panzer Army of Germany... Would 3 Nuclear weapons have stopped that many armies or neutralized the nations will to fight. Also one has to remeber about Nukes, they're very powerful in removing communication transportation lines since they're a vaporizing bomb. That may have been more powerful than the fear they brought... Plus they did the job, as they were the most powerful explosive of the age. LASTLY, with only 2 nukes or even 5 nukes I do not see Germany quitting in '45 or '46, anyone see the Post War photographs of it! Looked more like a Hurricane had leveled Germany, the equivelant of 10-15 Massive ABombs across it's industrial heartland, from above Germany looked like the Moon in places!

NokNok you're totally right about the little tricks of the trade players who play 10 or 15 hours a week for 6 months pick up. Right clicking on an enemy unit use to give you all the secret information on a unit!!! They fixed that in the patches but it will still tell you things you wouldn't otherwise know... I watched a guy smack my ships in Copenhagen Port from the adjacent Swedish Rocks, same in Gibraltar... So much so little time to learn. Perhaps a Hover tool or a Query tool much like in other indepth games to tell you secret tidbits about a Port or City, whatever.

Good idea Nok, in my experience I found out more playing than reading the book. The Books often collect dust... Any number of hints would be nice, many people do not understand the movement and operational system of SC2... Understanding what your units are capable of is at the fundamental heart of SC