landser

Is that true? Because as you know it's been a commonly held belief around here over the years. It's been definitively disproven then? Of course I have no idea either way and anyway, having driven in the mud a lot it's surely better to go fast than slow if you want to keep going What matters though is how it's programmed. OK, if that's the case, it is still remarkable that none of that huge fleet bogged at all in that final battle I reckon.

^ True, that. How's the battle going Bozowans? Erwin, are you still playing this one?

I've dabbled in real-time, but it's much more messy, and my brain can't handle it. I watched a video on youtube the other day of a player playing the airfield battle from the Task Force Thunder campaign in real time and I could hardly take it. So inefficient and sloppy, with units forgotten about doing nothing, needless casualties and lack of real co-ordination. And just watching videos of Combat Mission is difficult for me as I am constantly rolling my mouse wheel to change the zoom to no avail since I'm watching a video. Derp derp. On the other hand, the real-time player can more quickly react to events (though the real time factor means this only happens where you are watching) and can more quickly correct blunders. No sir, give me WEGO everytime. In real time I miss so much that's going on, which aside from the tactical ramifications, is just undesirable from an enjoyment point of view for me. Actually WEGO is for me the best wargame system ever. As I like to say, going from tactical genius to nervous spectator never gets old. It's a system of action and consequence and frankly it's brilliant.

Yeah, too many Flintstones memes will result. Not a fan of that one, though it wouldn't affect a purchase decision or whether I enjoy it, it's just a name. I like Across the Oder Final Assault Red Vengeance (maybe too much in that?) Reckoning Just a few I whipped up, not that you asked....:)

I'd like to know more about how this works. I just bought SF2, but before doing so I tried the demo, and played the training scenario a couple of times. I noticed that when I dismounted a squad and moved them 100m they were 'tiring'. 50m were quick and 50m hunt. Later I played the first mission in Forging Steel campaign. In this one I kept my infantry moving, using quick and hunt with few stops and they never went below normal and moved over a kilometer on foot. Of course these are scouts and the training scenario is a rifle squad. Maybe it's down to how much ammo they are carrying? Maybe engine differences, fitness, ambient temperature?

I found the TF Panther campaign (and more) on 37mm's dropbox. Thanks man, that's quite the treasure trove.

Added to the playlist, thanks man. I wanted the first campaign I played to have the new toys of SF2 like drones, so TFT fits the bill. But SF1 level campaigns are perfectly fine too. Looks like this one might take a while to get through, but lining up the next one is good. TF Panther is not at TSD III, got a link? What's the snitch? And about Forging Steel, apologies as it seems i either misunderstood or more likely glossed it over, but the description for the campaign includes this informative bit

Dastardly! It's a great story though and I can imagine the panic of a T-34 running amok in your rear. And to have it taken out at the moment of truth by a 185m rocket shot is emergent drama of the first order. The only thing that would be better is if the 'schreck shot was in flight at the end of the turn

Yes, I bought SF2 three days ago (big bundle) and it's my first modern CM title. Thanks to all for the recommendations, Task Force Thunder seems right up my alley and I had fun playing the first battle, even if it's a bit lopsided. After the briefing I had a look at the map, and it's fairly self-evident how to proceed. Get your M1s up on the berm and let 'em rip. And that's what I did. Of all the hundreds of Combat Mission battles I've played, I can safely say that I've never caused more casualties in the second minute of any. Just brutal. It's awesome how fast an Abrams can acquire and kill. But the star of the show was certainly the venerable M240, and these were singing for every turn non-stop. The enemy lacks motivation and with enough persuasion are keen to seek new positions to the rear. Each M1 got over 50 kills, and the artillery was lethal. I successfully bypassed the minefield and the infantry got involved toward the end, storming the complex and bringing it to a close. I've played WW2 Combat Mission for a long time, and I'm glad I decided to try a modern one. It's fun and different and I am having a great time. Thanks for all of the help.

I thought the first battle was excellent George, thanks for making that campaign. Great map, cool objectives, a manageable force and I like the briefing style. I actually did just fine in the first mission, forty minutes in I was at the first phase line. It's just that perhaps the enemy was too resolute for my first taste of the modern CM battlefield. Vergeltungswaffe, I meant had UAVs been added to Task Force Thunder, and can confirm they have, as I finished the first battle of the campaign last night. Good stuff, and a brutal introduction to combat on the modern battlefield. A few folks suggested I take my time and ease in to it, which is really good advice, and in the end perhaps I took more casualties than I am really comfortable with

Gotta love this game. That was one angry tank driver. Good stuff .

Thanks Pandur, that sounds good and I think I'll kick it off tonight. I've fooled around in SF2 enough now that I think I can make a proper go of it. Still curious if UAVs have been added in to it? I'll know soon enough I reckon.

Ah thanks, my mistake. Those enemy troops are rugged Thanks also for the recommendations, just the sort of thing I was looking for. Are you the same 37mm who's posted at SimHQ? I think I'll dive in to Task Force Thunder and it should keep me occupied for a while. Appreciate all the help so far.

Thanks Danfrodo, good to know. Maybe I'll kick it off this evening. I want to see more of Forging Steel but I might shelve it for a while. And besides, one of the things that attracted me to SF2 was the fact it's so different from what I've played before and things like drones are one of the toys I want to play with, and SF1 did not have these correct? Were they added to Task Force Thunder when it got the makeover for SF2? What other types of changes were made to bring it up to SF2 level? New AI plans, briefings and the like? I played a few QBs to see what's what (with Javelin) and campaigns are where it is for me.

Thanks man, that sounds quite manageable. I am just coming off completing the Blunting the Spear campaign in Red Thunder and and after that I was looking for something a bit lighter Which brings up something that I was thinking last night... in-game we get very little info on the campaigns we have installed from the selection screen. It might say small, or huge or large. What does this mean? Is it campaign length, force size, map size, all of it, some or none? Why so little info here aside from the author's brief description? It would be nice to know more. Task Force Thunder is listed as large I think, but more of an indication that it's long? And also, is there a way to back out in CMx2 after reading the general briefing? In CMx1 you could choose cancel. Maybe I don't see how, but to check out a campaign I need to actually load the first scenario in CMx2, and that's after reading the general briefing!

Thanks for the recommendation, any particular reason why you suggest that one? It looks like a big one, and a long one. I might wait before tackling it. So I'm new to Shock Force, never played the first iteration. I assumed too much in regards to campaign availability for this one I think, or I don't know where to look. The Scenario Depot has none. And just seven come with the game, one being the training campaign. So I had a look at what's listed at the SD III for SF1 and there are some there. I had no idea if these would work in SF2 but I reasoned they would. Had a look about and selected George MCs Forging Steel campaign, loaded it up and all seems fine with it. Matter of fact it seemed just my cuppa, platoon-sized (at least the opening probe), backed by a platoon of M1s, which is a perfect sort of setup for me to get in the groove really. And I liked it. Played about the first 40 minutes and made good progress, but kept thinking man these enemy troops seem fanatical. Dislodging them from the extensive trenches/ditches on the map seemed exceedingly difficult. They didn't break, didn't run. I wanted to see what was going on so I opened it up and saw that every enemy soldier and vehicle is Crack. Yep that explains it. Is the rest of the campaign the same? Is the Syrian army so finely honed? Any other recommendations? It doesn't matter much to me at this point if it's gotten the SF2 treatment now that I see those work fine. Is there anywhere to find campaigns aside from the Scenario Depot? My IT guy seems to have blocked IanLs site, so can't check from work. Does he have any that aren't at SD III?

You're having a proper go of it Bozowans, nicely done. If you finish this campaign would you please let me know how many T-34s were in the final battle? I think it would be interesting to compare. I won't say how many I had just yet to keep the veil in place, though I've spoiled the hell out of this campaign so far. But it would be interesting to see if there's any significant difference from one run to the next depending on how it plays out for each player. I'd also be interested to see the final campaign totals as well, but no obligation of course. Good luck on this one mate, the designers had a few tricks up their sleeves. They obviously spent a lot of time carefully placing the defenses in this campaign.

This was one of the more difficult missions for me, and the one where I displayed the least ambition for taking objectives. I took the town that starts with 'W' and Stary Jankow? was contested at the end, but otherwise I kept it tight and concentrated and wasn't suckered in to those flank objectives and it ended as a minor victory. The visibility works like night, where things are inside the blue sightlines, but not visible to your units unless they move or fire. There were a number of 'why can't he see that tank' moments. Combined with the tricky contours of the map (I felt like it was sort of crowned) it's a challenging scenario, or it was for me. It was a fun one though. A couple of posts back I said the fifth battle was Dybow Kolonia, but it's Stary Jankow isn't it? These place names don't stick in the brain. Thanks Warts, that's good to know.

Yes, the AI has a core force, though obviously they receive replacements. The better you do in one battle the less you should face after. For me the fourth battle had at least a platoon of assault guns and five T-34s and I had a tougher go of it. Killing tanks is key to setting up the final battle as I understand it and that's how I approached it. Still, they had quite a few at the end. The fact that in several scenarios the AI is to exit can add some urgency to your operation, although I didn't let that enter my plans. If they made it off good for them, meet later. Upping the tempo to prevent their escape would just lead to needless casualties is the way I approached it.

I was hoping someone would post where to find one Majick, but I think the answer is it does not exist (I could use one too) All I've done is Juju's UI and the rest of my CMRT install is bone stock, but ya know, that's just fine. I could go for new vehicle skins, especially the tanks, or better buildings textures or even terrain/foliage, but honestly I'm happy as is and anyway I don't want to find everything individually (if it exists).

Agreed. I tried to keep my armor grouped tightly by platoon as I mentioned earlier, and can be seen in some of my screens. During a typical WEGO segment a Panther or Mark IV averages about five main gun shots per 60 seconds (12 seconds per shot if neither move, just a straight-up slugfest). The T-34 and SU-85 are somewhat slower. So if you can get four tanks firing on that lone target that's roughly twenty to four per minute in terms of fire rate, and that's what I was trying to achieve. And it worked very well, as my tank kill ratio was 94:14 to all causes (are SU-85/76 classed as tanks or armored vehicles in the debrief? If armored vehicles, then the ratio was far better than that). Combined with better crews on average and superior optics, sustained fire rate ascendancy is going to win most of these fights, provided one shot-one kill capability of the weapon. It's also true that I was lucky. My tanks, well the Panthers anyway, shrugged off a lot of hits, particularly on the turret. I also got lucky in that my vehicles didn't bog. I used fast a lot and only one Mark IV bogged and then immobilized, and that was in the fourth battle on dry, clear ground. The final battle is damp and I had dozens and dozens of vehicles, tracked and wheeled, all going cross country at fast speed and none of them bogged.

How delightfully piquant Love the last shot. Two weeks?

Just picked up SF2 (big bundle) and was wondering if anyone had a recommendation for a good first campaign? Ideally not too big (company sized?) and one that features a nice variety of assets (air, artillery, electronic, etc) Which campaign would you recommend to start with?

Well it's a trade-off isn't it? Concentration is a key principle of warfare, but the flip side of course is vulnerability. In most scenarios I play, and certainly in this campaign, I prefer concentrating my armor. Because the enemy armor is so lethal (85mm) in this one, I wanted to try and ensure that I established fire superiority during the tank engagements. If the enemy hits/penetrates straight off then it's all out the window anyway. But the way it played out, especially when I was able to initiate at long range, meant the three or four barrels firing back scored first most of the time. The duel with the assault guns in the fourth battle, Ciemne, Cimene, Cimne, was a perfect example. I lost a tank or two, but it would have been much worse without so many tanks firing back I think. With infantry I do it all differently, as the threat of artillery especially makes me try to keep them at the end of their C2 links. Plus infantry are more vulnerable to rounds aimed at someone else. The most glaring example of this for me in Blunting the Spear was when I tried to sneak a company around the flank of a pair of AT guns deployed expertly in a ditch in the fifth battle, Dybow Kolonia. I successfully turned the flank, and was working the infantry along the ditch, and had just eliminated the HQ in a sharp firefight when one of the AT guns let loose a round of canister and three platoons took casualties from the single shot. I withdrew and gave up that idea. Those guns survived the battle and prevented me from moving any armor in that area. If you've played this battle you'll know the guns I am speaking of.

Such an occurrence would be regrettable It hasn't happened to me, but I suppose if you play enough eventually it will as Warts can obviously attest. I assume that when the penetration and exit happen that the kinetic properties of the round are appropriately affected? While I can see punching through a number of lightly armored vehicles as shown in that screenshot, how likely is it that a round (in the 76/85 mm class) could defeat the frontal armor on two or more main battle tanks? When it happened to you Warts, what were the particulars? What vehicles were hit with what type of gun at what range and where were they each struck? I think I would abandon the box formation if I encountered 122/152mm guns, as I reckon this sort of scenario increases in probability as the caliber increases. I'm compulsive about clearing my flanks, but this is a more likely thing I think, two tanks abreast being struck by a flanking shot against their side armor (which the box formation is equally vulnerable to). The third battle in this campaign, Dybow Kolonia, was a textbook example of the need to clear the flanks along the line of advance of your main body. Even still, I lost one Panther to a T-34 flanking shot from the left side. But in general I pushed infantry and a few tanks up both sides of the map before advancing my armor enmasse up the center. The enemy armor is so diabolically positioned in this campaign that it's essential to get the infantry involved and get the spots on this well-concealed armor. And since it's AI it's not usually too difficult to then outflank these tanks and take them out. A human would have seen the movement to outflank and reacted accordingly. But the AI doesn't co-ordinate in the same sense, where a scout spots armor moving around the flank, relays this info to the threatened tank who repositions to meet it or escape it. That tank just sits there dutifully watching it's assigned sector. This happened time and again in this campaign, especially in the second, third and fifth battles for me. Find, outflank, shoot 'em in the ass. But without infantry involved this is too dangerous, you need to be sure that the outflankers aren't outflanked and drive themselves in to a vulnerable position.