Edwin P.

I found that if you Give Russia - Germany, Lowcountries, Norway, Finland, Denmakr, Most of Spain, UK and Part of France and North Africa you have a powerhouse that can duplicate the effect of the Barbarian Hordes by creating lots of Corps and Armies, yet be a balanced game. The key problem is that Rome as Italy is limited to only 3 HQ units of rather low quality. This limits the number of effective offensives that the Romans can maintain at any one time. In my scenario I gave the starting HQs Experience 4 and the Legions in the border areas Experience. Also as Shaka said you have to find a way around not be able to create your own coutries and the US and Canada sits out their to give one side or the other an MPP boost, although I set the US to Neutral in my game so it will never enter the war.

Bill Macon Thanks for the link, most interesting

Suggestion: Go to Windows Update and install the latest XP Patches. That may help.

Narayan I just finished one game of my Ancient Roman Scenario and the Barbarians never purchased any Air Units or Rockets (they were set at tech level 5). They did purchase lots of corps/armies and HQ units. In a previous game where the Romans(Italy) were AI controlled they did not purchase any air units. In both cases I assume that this is because of 1) High Cost of Air Units at tech level 5 and 2)Rush by both sides to build garrison units in response to defend threatened cities. Note: I had to update the scenario to essentially have it be the Russians (with Russia controlling Germany / UK vs Italy. This means that the Romans have to advance very quickly else they will be overwhelmed by the Barbarian hordes. Roman counter attacks are limited by the 3 lowrated HQ units that are available to them. [ July 20, 2003, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

I have been trying to create a scenario based on Acient Rome and found that the AI does not build ships, but it will build air fleets unless you increase the tech level of air fleets, bombers and rockets to 5. Which makes it too expensive for the AI, at least in the first turns of my custom scenario. Also with Rome as Italy, I can't give it the good generals that it historically had, but the Italian AI, in control of Yugoslavia, Greece, Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Egypt, along with part of France does play a much more aggressive game than it does in the 1939 Scenario. In this custom scenario I also keep Russia neutral so that it does not enter the war. I jsut have to play test it some more and then work on the graphics. Hubert for the Future, Editor Suggestions 1. Customizable Deactivation of Unit Types 2. Option to turn off technology 3. Option to customize unit combat statistics 4. Option to add new HQ units and customize HQ statistics 5. Customizable Countries - So I can create Egypt, Persia, and Carthage with their own capitals [ July 20, 2003, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

For a mobile-anti air unit why not, to keep it simple 1> Interceptor Air Fleet, Range 2 Hexes (100 miles). Can not attack ground units. Can Intercept air attacks only. Cost 300MPP.

Bombers seem to be an under utilized resource in SC as compared to real life. May I suggest that 1. Each Long Range Tech advancement increase the attack range of Bombers by 2, but only increase the spotting range by 1. This would allow bombers to threaten more cities without giving the side with bombers unrealistic intelligence on enemy troop deployments. Example: Long Range Level 2: Bombers +4 Attack Range and +2 Spotting Range Long Range Level 3: +6 Attack Range and +3 Spotting Range Long Range Level 5: +10 Attack Range, +5 Spotting Range 2. The cost of producing bombers declines by 50MPP after the production of 3 bomber units, and declines by another 50MPP after the production of the 6th bomber unit. [ July 18, 2003, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Question: Should players be able to purchase extra Air Defenses for individual cities? This would reflect the fact that some cities had more Anti Aircraft Defenses than other cities. Example: Allied player can purchase Air Defense Bonus for London for 250MPP. This would increase the Air Defense rating of London by 1. Maximum Air Defense Rating of a City could be modified +5 through technology advances and +1 via air defense purchase. PS: If SC2 adds an intelligence tech I would also add a 20% per tech level that the city receives a +1 AD bonus due to advance warning of the incoming attck. PS2: The air defense rating of a city should also apply to its adjacent port hex. [ July 17, 2003, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Clarification on the Audio Suggestion 1. I agree that players must have the option to disable this. 2. I would have at most 10/11 possible audio events for the entire game. Each event would be tied to an actual game event. - British Response to Polish Invasion - German Surrender - Italian Surrender - French Surrender - D-Day Landing - Norwegian Resistance Broadcast (English Dubbed) - Report on German bombing of London - Report on the sinking of the Bismarck - US Enters the War - Churchill's "We have not yet begun to Fight" broadcast - Allied victory in North Africa 3. For those historically inclined I would also make the audio events accessible through the main menu. So you could listen to any Radio News broadcast at your leisure without having to play the game. 4. I would allow modders to add new Audio Event text files tied to 1> Surrender of a Country by a Particular Side 2> Destruction of a Particular Unit(ie Ship) 3> Conquest of a City by a Particular Side 4> Liberation of a Country by a Particular Side Ie Event: FallFrance Type: Surrender(France) By: Axis Chance: 10 (% that audio will play upon event) AudioFile: Parisfall.ram Event: LibFrance Type: Liberation(France) By: Allies Chance: 10 Audiofile: Parisliberation.ram

Gavrok I agree, I also like the random nature of Poland's surrender and second your proposal for France having a chance to delay surrender for a turn or two, if there are at least 4 French units in France and/or two cities remain unconquered. In war, nothing should be predictable. [ July 16, 2003, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Johm DiFool Now thats an excellent idea! Visit the Gal Civ Site to view mods submitted by players that can be downloaded to update their game of Galactic Civilization. --Also: I do agree there must be an Rules/Vairiations option to turn off the Audio Events. [ July 17, 2003, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

I agree, Mussolini's letter to Hitler is really campy. - It was a hit WWII Song Personally, I would poll the distributors for their opinion on adding chrome to SC. If they told me it would help sales I conside adding some in SC knowing that the information gathered could be used in SC2. [ July 16, 2003, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

SC, as is is a great game, but it lacks the chrome seen in other WWII games. My Chrome Wish List: 1. HQ Unit Headshots - when you click on a HQ unit next to the stats at the bottom of the screen appears a headshot of the General, along with a "random" famous quote of that General. 2. Ship Photos - when you click on a battleship or carrier unit - next to the stats at the bottom of the screen appears a B/W photo of the Ship. (public domain image) 3. During the winter, hexes in Russia/Finland/Norway and Sweden turn white. 4. Tank Photos - click on a US Tank unit and see along with the stats a picture of the Tank, Click on a German Tank unit and see a picture of a German tank (of course the picture should change along with tech level) 5. Research Advances - Not just you have reached Level 3 Jets but where possible add a picture of the plane / Tank / Rockets and more interesting copy. ie Your Engineers have developed the Tiger Tank (Level 4 Armor) 6. Add Random News Pop-ups based on actual historical events occuring in the game. Example: Fall of Low Countries 75% - Normal Low COuntries Surrenders Pop-up Box 25% - "Queen Wilhelmina and her government flee to London and began weekly broadcasts to her subjects in the Netherlands on Radio Orange to inspire them in their fight against the German occupation." Low Countries Surrender. Example: UK Battelship Hood Sunk by Germans 95% - Nothing 5% - "HMS Hood, which was the pride of Britain's fleet was sunk in May 1941 by German ship the Bismarck, killing 1,415 men (source BBC)" Example: German Subs Attack Merchant Convoy in the Atlantic 90% - Nothing 10% - "Twenty-four Merchant ships were sunk, along with 153 mariners and Armed Guard, 250,000 tons of war material, including 3,500 trucks, 200 aircraft and 435 tanks." Of Course players should have the option to turn this chrome off/on. 7. Random Pop-ups with Actual Historical Radio Audio at Specific Points in the Game. The key element here is that the audio clips would play in only about 1 of 5 games and would be a welcome surprise, not an annoyance. (Requires Free RealOne Player plug-in) Example: 20% on German Attack on Poland - Statement by Neville Chamberlin 20% on turn of French Surrender - Radio Broadcast of French Surrender - "We have not yet begun to fight" - Churchill 20% on turn that US enters the War - "This day shall live in Infamy" - 20% on German Surrender - Radio Announcement of German Surrender 1% per turn after Italy enters the War - Mussollini's Letter to Hitler ----------------------------------------------- These changes will not affect gameplay, but I think they would make the game more appealing to a wider audience. Also, the key element in my popups is that they don't occur all the time, only some of the time. Thus they do not slow down gameplay or annoy the player. It also makes them a welcomed event. ---------------------------------------------- [ October 25, 2003, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

With the upcoming release of SC by GMX Media in Europe, perhaps there will be one more update (not a patch as I think the game works fine as is) with simple improvements to the AI. [ July 16, 2003, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

GMX has a great looking SC page. With excellent screen shots of the game and higlights of the major review ratings.

Shaka Thanks for your comments, most insightful and to the point. Re: Attrition I agree, any time that a unit moves it should be subject to attrition, and I like your idea of first reducing readiness and then reducing combat strength. RE: Sea Technology I believe that over time that the ships used by civilizations become more capable of sailing accross the mediterrean (Note: The level of technological advancement should probably be half that as reflected in SC) Re: Land and Naval Tactics I was trying to reflect the difference in tactics vs Units Combat Experience that occured over time. As I believe that Experience Ratings in my mind are differnt. You may have a very experienced unit of Greek Hopilites fighting against an Experience Roman Legion. In most cases the Legion will win due to Superior Tactics. Likewise, you may have a very experienced leader using old combat tactics. Example an experienced Leader with a unit that relys on Spears and arrows would be at a severe disadvantage againast a less experiencecd Roman legion that uses shields to deflect the spears and arrows. I just think that the combat rating of a leader should be paired with the development of new tactics. Re: Leaders Here are some thoughts on Unit Factors for Leaders: 1. Experience (as is) 2. Intiative - Affects the chance for a leader and the units he controls to move without receiving orders. 3. Guile - Affects chance for an unusual combat result. Ie A superior Roman army pursued Hannibal and Hannibal retreated across the river and then attacked while the Romans were crossing the river. The larger Roman Army was defeated, a most unexpected result. 4. Combat Rating (as is) 5. Tactics (?) - Reflects level of tactical advancement. Example: Barbarian Hordes - Tactics 0, Roman Legions - Tactics 2 Leadership Effect Would be a Factor of: Experience & Combat Rating x Level of Tactics With a chance for an unusual result as defined by the Leader's Guile rating Example: A typical Roman General would have a high Combat Rating but a low Guile Ability (probably should use a different term for this). Thus he would be less likely to use unusual tactics to secure victory and would rely on the strength of his Legion in one on one combat. Hannibal would have a high combat rating and a high Guile rating. Thus he would have a greater chance of securing victory against a superior foe. Ie Guile 1 - 10% that Combat Strength of the Unit you command is doubledfor that single combat. Combat Ratings Ideas MD - Missle Defense CD - Cavalry Defense CA - Cavalry Attack MA - Missle Attack ID - Infantry Defense IA - Infantry Attack SA - Siege Attack Bonus LY - Morale Rating (Roman = 10, Mercenaries = 5) AP - Action Points [ July 13, 2003, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

SC Technology in the Ancient World - Ver 2 1. Communications Each level of advancement in Communications gives you an extra Leadership/Activation Chit each turn. Example: Rome 3, Persia 1 2. Fortifications Each level of advancement in Fortifications increases the maximum fortification value of a city or town. 3. Land Tactics Each level of advancement in Land Tactics gives your units a 25% increase in their combat readiness. Each level of Difference in Land Tactics vs. the Enemy Forces gives you a 4% for an Unusual Combat Result (i.e. an inferior force can defeat a superior attacking force or escape with no damage). Example: Rome 2, Egypt 0 4. Naval Tactics Each level of advancement in Naval Tactics gives your naval units a 25% increase in their combat readiness. Example: Greeks - 1, Rome - 0 5. Ship Design Each level of advancement in ship design reduces the chance for attrition of fleets or transports while traveling at sea by 10%. Example: Greeks - 1, Rome Level - 0, Carthage -2 6. Siege Engines Each level of advancement in Siege Engines gives your units a 100% increase in attack strength when attacking units in Cities. Example: Rome - 2, Greeks - 1, Carthage - 0 7. Supply Trains Each level of advancement in Supply Trains reduces the chance for attrition by 10% for land units. Example: Rome - 2, Egypt - 0, Persia - 1 8. Trade Each level of advancement in Trade increases MPP production by 20% per turn. [ July 13, 2003, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

I would also add: 4. Chariot Type - Can Not Enter Forest or Mountain Hexes, +2 AP to cross Rivers As chariots were not as flexible in strategic combat as cavalry units were, but were more intimidating in battle (I Believe). 5. War Galleys (as opposed to transports) PS: The best way to test the concepts before writing the actual program might be to play test it using ADC2 (Aide De Camp) or creating the game on paper. Attrition A unit should suffer attrition (loss of Strength Points) 50% of the time if it crosses a mountain hex, enters a coastal sea hex or an open sea hex during non winter months.During the winter months if a unit starts a turn in a non-Friendly Province it should also suffer attrition. Game Scale The Second Punic War lasted for 17 years. Perhaps bimonthly or quarterly turns should be considered. Cities Units in a City Hex would have two options: 1. Go within the City walls 2. Stay Outside its Walls City Hexes - Units in a City Hex but within its walls do not exert a zone of control outside that hex. Enemy units can freely enter any surrounding hex without initiating battle. City Hexes - Units in a city hex but outside its walls exert a zone of control into surrounding hexes. And any enemy unit entering such a controlled hex must attack it. Units within a Beseiged City are subject to Attrition. Effects of City Conquest - Via a Pop-up Window Option 1: Plunder - Conquers gain MPP equal to the value of the city. Minimal Garrison Force is left behind. City may revolt when nearest conquering unit is 250 miles distant. Option 2: Raze - a razed city ceases to exist and its hex image is replaced with ruins. It may not be used as a source of supply. If Raze is choosen this window would appear with the image of an ancient city in ruins; In the Year "XXXX BC" the conquering armies of "YYYYY" razed the city of "CCCCCC" selling all of its inhabitants into slavery and poisoning the surrounding lands with salt. Option 3: Garrison - Strength of Occupying unit is reduced by 1 to reflect stationing of garrison troops in that city. City will not revolt when occupying army leaves. Effect of Killing the King Units must make a moral check to retain cohesion if their king is killed. Units that fail a cohesion check are disbanded. The King unit must be assigned to an army or a city. Rome does not have a King. As long as the King exists the country will not surrender. Technology Ship Design - Each level of ship design gives a 10% reduction in the chance for attrition when at sea. Communications - Each level of communications gives the country 1 extra leadership action per turn. Land Tactics - Each level of tactics gives your land units an additional tactic to use during battle (or a 20% improvement to your combat readiness to keep it simple). Naval Tactics Trade - Each level of trade increases the maximum value of each controlled city by 2. Seige Engines (Ballistas > Catalpults > Siege Towers) Supply Train - Each level of supply train reduces the chance for attrition of land units by 5% (from a base chance of 50% when entering a mountain hex or starting a winter turn in a non-friendly province). Fortifications Tactics 1. Double Envelopement 2. Flank Right 3. Flank Left 4. Frontal Assualt 5. Probe 6. Reinforcements 7. Refuse Right 8. Refuse Left 9. Stand and Defend 10. Retreat 11. Fortify Postion Example: Defender's Stand and Defend vs Flank Left - Attacker gains 25% Attack Bonus Defender's Refuse Right vs Flank Left - Defender Gains 25% Defense Bonus [ July 13, 2003, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Perhaps, say that you can only receive strength point reinforcements in City hexes. 1. Simple to program 2. Makes City hexes more important. 3. Prevents constant reinforcement of troops in the field. Or have unit reinforcements appears in a number of turns related to their distance from a capital city. Roman units in Italy would be reinforced in 1 turn. Roman Units in Gaul would be reinforced in 3 turns and Roman Units in Egypt would be reinforced in 5 turns. In addition, the player would have to spend a leadership point to send reinforcements to a unit. Thus with leadership points you could - 1) Move a unit, 2) Reinforce a Unit or 3) Send an Ambassador to a Kingdom or 4) Order a City to Increase its Fortifications. During winter months the number of leadership points a player receives could be reduced. Example: For 9 Months Rome receives 10 leadership points per turn, during the 3 Winter Months Rome receives 5 leadership points per turn. [ July 13, 2003, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Excellent Point I can think of several ways to handle this; 1. Each side would get a limited number of leadership points each turn that they could use to activate individual units or leaders and their controlled units. Example: 3 Leadership points would allow you to activate 3 units, or 2 units and 1 leader along with units that that leader controls. Thus a player can't move all of his units at once in response to some threat. Thus simulating the effect of lenghty communication delays. 2. You could have a random chance that individual units or leaders and their controlled units would respond to orders. 3. I would also say that you can't see the status of all of your units until they are activated or can respond to orders. You would see their last know position and last know strength but would not be aware of their current condition or if they had been attacked until they were activated or several turns had passed or the unit had retreated to a friendly city. Exampe: A unit that was attacked and had its morale broken would retreat towards the nearest controlled city, however Rome might not be aware of this movement, the combat or the units losses until it attempted to activate that unit or the unit had reached the city. In real life Rome was not advised of combat results until several months had passed.

Shaka - I like your ideas JerseyJohn - Its true, FOW in an Ancients campaign would be much more intense but allowances should be made for spies and embassies that would report back the location of troops with a one to three month time delay depending on the distance from your capital/nearest army. - Random Events would be needed. - Also the weather in the Meditterrean had a great effect on the transport of troops accross the Ocean (but not so much when they traveled along the coast) Leaders in the Time of Ancient Rome Leaders of Armies/Legions contributed a lot to the success or failure of the armies they commanded. In such a game I would like to see the leaders and Kings of the Ancient world represented in a more detailed way than presented in SOC. In addition to experience, a leader was usually skilled in one or more facets of war. In keeping with the same system I would have leaders give different bonuses/penalties to the units under their command. I would also like to see leaders give their units a wider choice of tactical options. Thus units commanded by an average leader might have available only 2 tactical options. Units commanded by a military genius would have six to nine tactical options available.

As Rambo has suggested a strategic game built on the SC Engine covering Ancient Rome would be most interesting; 1. You have Multiple Nations - Greece, Egypt, Persia, Gaul, Rome, and more 2. You have Cities to Conquer or Pillage 3. You have Capital Cities - Alexandria, Rome, Athens, Carthage 4. You have Multiple Unit Types - Chariots, Legions, Greek Phalanx, Cavalry. 5. You have the option to Add Tactical Battle options to SC. 6. You have Leaders that can extert an even greater effect on the outcome of a battle. 7. You eliminate the problem with the size of the Atlantic and can show the Mediterrean at scale. 8. You have barbarian uprisings, random barbarian incursions and Mercenaries to hire. 9. You have the effects of supply. And much more Of Course, due to the scale of the Game you would be dealing with much fewer units and it would be largely a war of movement hidden by FOW followed by great battles at key choke points and cities. It should also be a game with the potential for a much stronger AI. Naval Movement would be dangerous for fleets seeking to cross the Mediterrean and sailing far from the coast. Leaders would be assigned to individual armies. The Map would cover the area from Portugal in the west to Persia in the East and from Egypt in the south to Gaul in the North. Cities would have MPP values ranging from 4 to 30. Alexandria, Rome, Carthage, and Athens earn 30MPP per turn. A city unable to trace a trade route to its rulers capital city would have its MPP reduced by 50%. Sieges would require an invader to surround a city with its zone of control and it may take an invading army several months to take a city with strong walls. If one of the surrounding 2 armies leaves to fight elsewhere then the siege is broken and the armies within can be reinforced to full strength. MPP Uses: Fortify Cities Build Units Hire Mercenaries Bribe Kingdoms to Remain Neutral [ July 12, 2003, 02:29 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

RE: RTS in HOI vs Turnbased in SC 1. I like the Turnbased moves in SC better than the RTS in HOI, but the RTS is more realistic. For example - You tell a unit to move from one area to another and it slowly moves. You can speed it up or slow it down by adjusting the speed of the program (Ctrl + or Ctrl -). Some people complain about the RTS but I do not find it to be a problem as you can adjust the speed or pause the program at any time. Even so, I like SC better in that it gives you more control over the tactical aspects of the battle. Example: In HOI you move units into a province and they fight it out in mass. In SC you can have a Crops defend against an Army unit while two armor units target an Army Unit in an adjacent hex. 2. I have not played with the Naval aspects of HOI yet so I can not answer that question. [ July 11, 2003, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

Kurt88 I agree, I just bought HOI (V1.05) this week because of the mod community that it has. You can write AI routines that execute when specific events occur (ie change to PearlHarbor AI after Japan takes Singapore and Malaysia), direct it attack certain ocean areas, set beaches for invasion, and more. But I sill think that SC is a better game and much more playable. HOI has more depth but SC so far is more enjoyable and faster playing. In my opinion, it just needs a better/moddable AI to make it really great.

If you are going to ask for yet another patch make it something simple. Then Hubert might, just might , consider issuing, just one more patch. My wish list of simple(?) changes; For improving the AI; 1. In the 1939 Screnario occasionally have the subs move south to interdict merchant ship convoys some of the time, instead of always heading towards the Scarpa Flow. (At Novice 0%, Beginner 20%, Intemediate 50%, Expert 80%) 2. Sometimes have the AI concentrate all of its Air Fleets on the Eastern front, at least until the allies launch D-Day. (At Novice 0%, Beginner 20%, Intermediate 50%, Expert 80%) 3. Have the Russians reclaim all tech chits when the Germans break the supply line between Moscow and Rostov. (Novice 0%, Beginner 20%, Inter 50%, Expert 80%) 4. Have the French Corps in Beruit move to Cairo after Italy enters the war (Nov 0%, Beginner 20%, Inter 50%, Expert 80%). For Non AI Improvements; 1. Add Spanish and Turkish Partisans using the same code as used for Yugoslavia. 2. Give Airfleets and Bombers a 50% to spot Submarines within Spotting Range, not the 100% they have now. PS: Looking forward to SC2 and hoping for an SC like game dealing with Ancient Rome (with option to play Rome, Carthage, Persia, Barbarians), perhaps modelled on the old SPI Punic Wars game. [ July 11, 2003, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]