SeaMonkey

Yagg, its a bow, with female overtones(you should be wearing a tu-tu and ballet shoes).

The medium/tactical/level bombers of WW2: France Amiot 143M/Bloch 210 BN4/Liore' et Olovier 451 B4 1240 miles range,1936/1050 mi.,1937/1800 mi. 1939 Germany Dornier Do17Z-2/Heinkel He111H-6/Junkers Ju88A-4 930 mi.,1937-38/1200 mi.,1936-41/1700 mi.,1938-40 Italy CANT Z.1007bis/Fiat BR.20M/Savoia-Marchetti SM79-1 1110 mi.,1938/1700 mi.,1938-39/1180 mi.,1937 UK Blenheim IV/Hampden Mk1/Wellington 1C 1460 mi.,1937-39/1990 mi.,1938/2550 mi.,1938 light bombers de Haviland Mosquito B.Mk XVI/Fairey Battle MkIII 1480 mi.,1941-42/1000 mi.,1937 USA Martin Marauder B-26B/N.American Mitchell B-25J 1150 mi., 1941-42/2700 mi.,1941-43 light bombers Havoc A-20G/Invader A-26B/Hudson A-29 IIIA 1100 mi.,1941-42/1800mi.,1944/2800 mi.,1939-40 USSR Ilyushin II-4 DB-3F/Tupolev Tu-2S 2350 mi.,1938-40/1240 mi., 1944 Do we need to examine the heavy strategic bombers of the period?

Let's see ......3000 MPPs for USSR start buys approximately 25 corps. It takes 17 to form a defensive line. Curry will be knocking off 4 a turn at least with the 8 ball after the initial decimation of starting armies. What do you think aesopo? I bet you got 15 turns at the most before USSR cut in half and is a forgone conclusion. Your going to need some luck with that USA AT tech/UK Jets or the West is toast. Time keeps on ticking....ticking...into the future.

An easy fix to countries abandoning their forward deployments is to connect an inherent MPP value to each tile for the owning player. Think about this in a real sense. A 50 mile square area of earth represents 2500 square miles, surely there is a value(economic)in that vast amount of area. Now maybe not everywhere on the map, the Sahara is not worth much unless your into glass making.

Further ev, imagine this feature in an historical context, eventually the Allies will have 3 of the generic air HQ organizations and the Axis will start and end up with potentially only 2.

Point 3 is exactly on. The generic air Hq would be for a strategic centralized base of operations such as was the case for the Eighth USAF in UK during WW2. Also known as Bomber Command for the British contingent. This would represent a concerted effort to establish air superiority and conduct strategic operations over an operational theater. Of course air units deployed elsewhere would come under the authority of the local theater Hqs as we have now in SC.

I'm going to throw a quick summary of what I think we should see for Airforces is SC2. This is a preliminary assessment. First I believe each country(major) should be able to purchase a generic Air Hq(user named) as put forth earlier by DD, one per combatant. This Hq would coordinate the 3 possible air units types with some enhancing features. The 3 types are fighter/fighter bombers/SR ground attack aircraft, light and medium ground attack and tactical/level bombers, and finally long range medium/heavy strategic bombers. There is an overlap of each type into the roles the others play but they should have their own unique qualities that they excel in. For example: FFB should be only able to provide air superiority/escort tasks with some close support and naval attack abilities,good recon, very little strategic abilities. TACs should have some inherent AD qualities but excel in ground and naval attack with a better strategic ability, some % of FBB recon status. Then of course SACs should provide the strategic mission capabilities with some AD and a smaller ground/naval attack role, very little recon characteristics.

Play it right Curry and you can put off Barbarossa till Nov. I've had it go as far as Feb. 43. IIRC?

Congrats CT, today HS, tomorrow the world.

I like this idea of fighter defense RF. Why not allow an automatic increase in anti air for the occupying tile and all adjacent, surrounding tiles of Fighter Air units. This could be in addition to performing the optional escort and intercept missions to range. If the Fighter unit falls below strength 5/50% readiness it no longer can provide air defense enhancement. As far as spotting is concerned, I believe we are going to find that fast, light bombers and fighter bomber models performed most of the low level recon missions necessary to spot ground units. These would be the longer range missions as the short range missions are performed by slow flying single engine forward observers for the ground forces.

Just an added little tidbit. Remember how we talked about Germany's decision to not actually put emphasis on strategic bombers? It might be of interest that they actually built 1120 four engined Heinkel 177A-5 "Griffon" heavy bombers. Max speed at 20000 feet was 303 mph and a max bomb load of 13200 pounds. Went into service in 1943. Anyone want to guess the range? You were right if you said 3400 miles. Now that's a strategic bomber.

Well one thing has become very clear at this point of investigating the range and uses of various aircraft of WW2. Not something that hasn't been brought up before, we need at least 3 types of aircraft units or at least an abstraction of 3. First category is of course fighters and fighter-bombers and short range groung attack dive bombers of which we have examined the most prolific models. Second is medium, light and naval, dive and torpedo, ground attack tactical bombers. Well you all have guessed the third category, at the risk of redundancy the strategic, heavy bomber. Still looking into recon types, but its seems that role was pretty much played by the variants of models that will be specified here in these 3 categories.

Excellent proposal, as I said before Edwin. I'll throw a pro-lot into the ballot box for the generic HQs as stated by DD. As far as the features attached, there are many here for potential consideration. I'll trust HC's decision on those.

Colonel, the SC cookie cutter plan for Barbarossa is 8-8-8 (that's the USSR behind the eight ball plan). Simply 8 AFs, 8 armies, 8 Tank groups, its all over by 43.

Curry, you have learned well.

As I remember it, SC1 was slow to come to fruition but as the release grew near(announced) it was a short 6 weeks before gold. SC2 will be a little slower coming and the anticipation will build as AARs become available, something I don't think we received with SC1. I'm still enjoying SC, at least the custom campaigns, and filling in with HttR as we wait and hopefully contribute. Now that(contribution) is something to remember. The longer SC2 is in coming the better(more ideas incorporated)it will be and the longer it will hold our interest. In this age of instant gratification the age old cliche is still applicable, "the good things in life are worth waiting for".

aesopo do you know the Kansas song? Start wistling it... "Dust in the Wind". Hint: you might want to replace "Dust" with sand.

Isn't this a pdf file? You have acrobat reader? Print it out. Click "programs" on your start tray or else use Windows explorer to find the file under programs, strategic command folder on your hard drive, usually C.

Edwin, when you need someone to test your custom campaigns, please call on me.

Welcome tank ace, sorry you'll have to earn the caps. Be ready to become tank fodder.....but good luck on attaining your pseudonym. Be sure and read the player's guide.

Shaka, If we're looking to qualify SC AFs as they are now, shouldn't we examine some of the tactical bombers that would also be a part of this TO&E? Predominantly, I have only posted fighter types. Should we also include some recon models?

Damn it Edwin now you have done it. I had to tear apart the office looking for my TOAW manual, specifically the Event Editor. Why? Because Norm Koger wrote a most amazing engine that scripts the AI to do a number of tasks, ..well. Here is how I believe the generic event editor should be structured. From TOAW the event has the following elements: 1. a trigger 2. an effect 3. a location 4. a value or radius 5. a chance of occurrence 6. a turn range 7. a news bulletin for the report screen when it occurs 8. a status Simply by filling in the blanks(with the scripted choices) for these parameters will set in motion the things you have been asking for. The events are numbered in sequence and one event can activate or cancel another. They are designed to come off chronologically so event #150 could supercede event #10 if time is the trigger but not necessarily needed to be the trigger. Among other things IMO this was the most precedent setting feature in computer wargaming up to this point and is very powerful, but somewhat complicated, although not necessary for scenario design, completely optional.

My pleasure Shaka: Folke-Wulf 190A-8 (1941-1943) range 495 miles the 190G-3 fighter bomber range 395 miles (2755lbs bomb load) Supermarine Spitfire Mk IA (1938) 395 miles Mk VB (1938-1941) 470 miles Mk IX (1938-1942) 980 miles MkXIV (1938-1944) 850 miles Yakovlec Yak-1 (1940) range 530 miles Yak-3 (1943) 560 miles Yak-7 (1942) 510 miles Yak-9D (1942) 875 miles Junkers Ju87B-1/2 (1937-1938) range 490 miles Ju 87D-1 (1937-1941) 950 miles Fiat C.R. 42AS (1939) range 480 miles Macchi M.C.200 (1939) 540 miles Macchi M.C.202 (1941) 475 miles The only other Russian frontline fighter aircraft I have listed as abundant were: Lavochkin La-5FN (1941-1943) range 475 miles La-7 (1941-1944) 395 miles As far as the Allies, for the Americans other than carrier borne and special night-fighters are: Republic Thunderbolt P-47D (1942-1943) range 590 miles Bell Aircobra P-39Q (1941-1943) 675 miles Brewester Buffalo F2A-3 (1939-1941) 960 miles France: 3 types, Bloch 152/Dewoltine D520/Morane-Saulnier MS 406 C1 (1939-1940) range 336/550/460 miles respectively. There are other countries listed but for this discussion their ranges are not much different then the ones already stated. 350-584 mile range I'll mention one other fighter aircraft of significance: Bf 110C-1 (1938-1939) range 680 miles Obviously we're just looking at the range comparisons and this in no way qualifies the mission effectiveness of these aircraft in air to air combat.

Night...ev, give it up, there is a simple solution. Allow anti-tank tech to increase the TD(armor defense value) of both infantry and mech/mot./tank units, perhaps less for the leg infantry than for motorized units. If you decide not to research Heavy Tanks, there will still be a chance to increase your TD value, but not your TA value. This brings up a good point, what should the interaction of Heavy Tank tech and Anti-Tank tech be for the various unit types we will have in SC2? My thinking is the Heavy Tank tech should always be slightly more potent due to the first shot capability(quicker to engage multiple targets) of a moveable turret over a fixed gun unless the defending unit is entrenched.

Likewise, thanks HC for the orientation. Being past the AI now and only into PBEM I haven't considered AI capability for SC2. But what I think is important is the scripting of the AI using the editor. This will allow the AI to be choreographed for a custom scenario and although it will still be an easy victory eventually for the human, the first time an unexpected player takes on the AI he will be in for some surprises. It will be up to us SC patrons to concoct some custom campaigns for each other to enjoy. This will allow us(the ones into scenario making)to inject a little of our playing style into our custom campaign quiver for the rest to test their SC prowess. [ May 27, 2004, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: SeaMonkey ]