Norse

In order to get most bang of the buck with the Free French forces, send the French corp in Syria down to Egypt. Notice that the fleet have departured and is en route to Britain. Do the same with Gibraltar. When the airfleet in Malta leaves for Britain, ship the British Gibraltar garrison to Malta, and the French algerie corp to Gibraltar (or other way around, you get the idea). By now, your defence of Britain should look something like this (screenshot at 21 july 1940) This kind of defence will make it very difficult to beat Britain before USA can join and help turn the tide. Notice that with the help of the Free French, the British can focus solely on air and naval forces, while the Free French can focus on the ground forces. With time, the Free French can join in D-Day and liberate their lovely country Don't hold on to London if doing that is crushing your forces, remember that you got a 2nd capital in Manchester. Retreat northwards to buy time if you must, and find comfort in that USA is coming soon. Good luck ~Norse~

Welcome to briefing girls! With this topic, I bet you are expecting something close to firework, but actually, since last time was a major offensive against Italy, this time will be about how to properly defend the allies in the early stages of the war. As always, what I say is not a blueprint and you haveto find your own way on how to implement any strategy into your unique game. This can only guide you as a guideline, and I'm sure that I forgot to mention something (because I don't know it...yet!) I hope that theese discussions can help us, considering all the talk about how it is impossible to do this or that, impossible to stop the Germans, impossible to win with the allies etc. By discussing this and how we can accomplish theese things, perhaps we can figure out the best strategies to use at this time? And then, the other side figures out counterstrategies to that, so we haveto find new strategies again This is real fun IMO (this is the best part of any strategy game IMO ). Alright, let's start. First off, let me take a quick look at some game mechanics. Any French unit in British / Commonwealth territory, by the time France surrenders, will continue to fight as Free French and draw supply from the Commonwealth. British troops do not get this feature. This is good to know, let us work with this. Also, if Britain is to fall, we loose both the biggest allied fleet and gibraltar. This means that the axis can combine their fleets in the atlantic, and most likely keep the Americans at bay for the rest of the war. If Malta, Egypt, or any other part of the commonwealth falls to axis control, then the allies suffer no major consequences. If the allies loose London and Manchester, then both the Free French and the British surrender. So obviously, the number one priority must be to defend Britain, and sacrifise anything that is neccesary to achive this goal. Atleast this is what I feel is the number one priority for the allies in the early stages. Operation Sea Lion must fail! It is not neccesary to maintain control of France, if we are able to maintain control of Britain long enough for USA to enter the war and turn the tide. Any territory lost, including France, can be taken back. So it makes no sence to throw in everything we got in order to defend France. With the stated above mechanics, it is in my opinion, better to work the other way around. I also base this, on the argument that the forces the allied player got available to defend France with, is essentially the same forces the allied player got to defend Britain with. You have one forcepool to defend both France and Britain! If the allied player looses horrendous losses while defending France, then defending Britain later on might be an impossible task. What I do, as the French, is to build a few corps and put them in the maginot line. This free's up some French armies, so I can put one army in Paris (better give Paris the best garrison possible, the default garrison is just a corp), and the excess armies can be shipped over to Britain. With the foreward troops defending France (mainly corps and a couple armies, possibly a British corp or two as well, but that should be about it), buy time so France get's enough MPP to build a HQ. I always disband the French fleet, gamey or not. I cannot know if the French fleet will help me defend Britain later on, so in my opinion, it is better to disband it so I can buy something that will help me defend Britain. When the defensive line begins to falter, don't fight till the bitter end. Remember that the troops you got now, are also the troops you need to defend Britain with. So start the Dunkirk effect, and evacuate as many as possible to Britain, while your garrison in Paris forms your last line of defence and tries to hold out for as long as possible. To buy you even more time, send the Canadian army to France and put it on the west-coast. Even if France surrenders now, then the Germans will only be having control of 1 French port, which buys you time in case they will launch the Sea Lion. Remember that they need ports to launch their units from. If the Canadian army is about to be annihilliated, then you can ship it back to Britain if you want, it already bought you some time, so it might as well get it back for defence by now. Now, with Britain, considering that holding Egypt, Malta etc., doesn't make or breake the allied effort at this stage, it is better to just ship the naval and air forces from the Med back to Britain. If Malta etc falls to the axis, then with time, we can always take it back. It is much harder to take Britain back if that falls instead. Also, I should mention this (I considering hiding it as an easter egg for u;) ), by denying the Germans the ability to destroy the bulk of your French forces - because you withdraw it to Britain right before they can do that, and with the Canadian army still fighting in France, France will actually keep on fighting for a turn or two after Paris falls. Don't depend on this, but it always works out this way for me. It hadto do with the game mechanic that, even if a nation's capital falls to the enemy (and thus denies you the ability to create any more units), the nation will not surrender just yet, if the nation's military is not yet defeated.

Crap, I'm doomed now What settings did you have in mind? Mail me about it

Now that EB is saying farewell, isn't it time that you guys get off his back? I have read most of what you have been saying, and I really don't know what the properiate comment to it would be. *Sigh* could be the word I have been looking for. Most of you (not all, I've seen some occational exceptions) forget that EB is 1 guy, but you judge hundreds of millions of people based on what 1 guy is saying. And beyond that, there has been alot of hard dissing of USSR and the communist ideology here. Isn't that really uncalled for? WHO CARES if someone thinks communism works better than democracy or not, eh? Bastards flock to whatever banner is flying highest at the moment anyway, be it this or that. Madmatt you were right when you said that just because some little guy on a internet forum said my ideology doesn't work, then suddenly I'll say "oh my god! he is right! my government doesn't work!!" heh You see, I could very well be typing this from Bejing. China is thriving as it is, even if some people here want to say "but their government doesn't work". heh, I rest my case...it is that time to move along again...nothing to see here, move along ~Norse~

I have one, BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA.

LOL! ~Norse~ [ October 25, 2002, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: Norse ]

lol To shock you all on how to do this move is a good thing, because, be honest now, it makes all of you who read this make up your own mind wheter this is a good thing or a bad thing. Some will claim this is not historically accurate, other's will claim that this IS historically accurate, so why can't it be done? This isn't just in SC. Many of you grognards who have played Third Reich and so on, do you remember that "gamey" guy who kept using France to knock Italy out?? I do! Because that guy was me! I placed a Coup in Yoguslavia, and then I hit Italy with both Yoguslavia and France, hehehe. So you see, any game who tries to historically represent the forces of the nations in 1939, will have the opertunity for France to knock Italy out of the war. Like it has been said here, this is risky. Yes, it is VERY risky. If the allies fail, then all is not lost like some of you think it is. Just ship the HQ and some armies etc to Britain, and continue fight as Free French. If you are going to say that this is gamey too, then I strongly disagree, Free French had a HQ in the real war. Atleast a battleship counter and some infantery units. So bottom line is, I make you make up your own mind by showing you this, and that is a good thing. Because now that you are aware of the opertunities in the game, you will make up your own mind on if you like this or not, and thus you can have precise house rules to either allow this thing or not allow this thing. Let it be said, that Germany is not doomed because Italy is defeated. Perhaps you guys should simply try this in a PBEM once, two veteran players against each other, and you will see how interesting it becomes. Don't be so easy and just throw in the towel already. It is a challenge, and challenges creates heroes ~Norse~

GREAT work Hubert!! You da man! ~Norse~

Sorry, let me reprahse that. Hubert doesn't "haveto" do anything about Italy as it is, as it is pointed out here, it is possible for Germany to smash France and thus save Italy. This should force the axis player to repeat history as well, instead of going onto adventures into Sweeden or something. Let me also add that France counter-attacked the Italians and pushed on them. This have been simulated in other games, so when this is in SC as well, don't throw it completely off. This is after all an "what-if the allies had focused on Italy" scenario. I'm just saying this so Hubert will be aware of the two sides of the coin. You guys might not like it that way, but war is hell, and Germany didn't really have an easy time in the beginning (or ever for that matter). What I would really like to see though, as you guys have stated, is that Italy enters at the end of the allied turn. It really sucks to have them enter at the end of the axis turn, and then have this stuff happening to you - without the US penalty Perhaps leave the Italian unit's as they are, but increase the US penalty if the allies attack Italy? I have another idea as well. All the nations had militia. For Germany this was called Volkstorm, the British had the Homeguard, etc. What about, when a nation is under attack, then that nation get's a onetime offer to place out one free army? That could help Britain and USSR too. Even if it seems little, I have seen 1 corp stall the German offensive on the east-front in the early stages, so it depends if it is placed at the right spot to the right time. I'm babbling.... ~Norse~

Poor Hubert will haveto fix the Italian situation for the third(?) time, hihihi. Poor Hubert, he must feel like :mad: by now, hehehe Ok, I suggest this. Increasing the entrench value won't help, because the Brits can include a 3rd carrier for the attack, as well as the two unused strat.bomers there (the Rome garrison got an entrench value of 4 right now). I suggest rotating the corp with an Italian army somewhere, and let the army entrench at value 5. Then we're talking Although... who knows....hehehehe GRRRR!! :mad:

Hey guys I think the only way to stop this for the Germans, is to crush Poland as quickly as possible, and go head on against France right away. Ignore going after Norway and such, go France all the way, and don't let up until France has surrendered. If the allies even got a second to spare, then they can rotate the 2 French armies away from the German border, and send them to attack Italy. Britain can send the Canadian army, and build more armies herself. Don't let them do this, be at their throats and beat France before the British carrier reaches Italy. When you see the "France surrenders" sign, then Italy is home safe This will certainly be very difficult for the Germans, but will it be impossible?? hehehe, is anything really impossible in this great game ~Norse~

FOW is always on

Yeah, knocking Italy out with a single move is pretty cool :cool: They never had a chance :cool: ~Norse~

The fighters travel 6 hexes, the bombers travel 7 hexes. So to answer your question, I spent abselutely no, nothing, nadda MPP on researching anything at all. It is not needed. Britain and France only got the technology that they start the game with. ~Norse~

Notice the two British bomber units. I bought one extra to make sure that the invasion was successful. Although, as you can see (the white dot on the unit means it hasn't moved), neighter of the British bomber units was used for this invasion. I could have saved up the MPP and bought more armies instead. Ah well, better safe than sorry Look at the two bomber units, they have not been used for this attack. Now I have showed you how to do it, now you try it. ~Norse~ [ October 27, 2002, 03:11 AM: Message edited by: Norse ]

After I shared my Soviet strategy with you guys, I/O Error asked that I find a way to conquer with France as well, so this one is for you I/O Error I have decided to share my unforgiving and outstanding early Allied strategy with you guys. Be prepared to witness the most awesome and effective offensive in the history of SC! First, the briefing. France must disband her navy and build a HQ right away. You must also spare a couple armies and send them down towards Italy. The rest is normal prochedure, just stay alive and don't let Germany conquer you just yet. Britain, must immediately send a Carrier from Britain down to the mediterranian (in other words, towards Italy). By the time the carrier reaches Gibraltar, then you transport the French corp in Algerie towards Italy. By now you should keep the two French armies near a French harbour, ready to be transported towards Italy for a quick and decisive invasion. You must keep your two armies attached to your HQ. In Egypt, you must now send the carrier towards Italy. Don't worry about the other naval units there, you don't need them. If you want, then you can disband them, so you get some extra MPP to build more armies with. This is up to you, do as you want. Also, by the time the carrier reaches Gibraltar, send the battleship in Gibraltar towards Rome. You will see why in the next post. [ October 27, 2002, 03:06 AM: Message edited by: Norse ]

You got it abit wrong dgaad (that's alright) I wrote that Free French surrenders when "Britain" surrenders, and I asked why See? ~Norse~

Lou Wigman, all I can say is that you need more practice. It is possible to defeat the Germans if they attemnt to invade UK. ~Norse~

Cool Hubert You're the man SC rocks as it already is, remember that ~Norse~

nm, lol [ October 22, 2002, 04:51 AM: Message edited by: Norse ]

The game is great. But for christmas, I have made a wishlist. I wish that my favorite game, SC, had the ability to 1) Operate units from Norway, thru Sweeden, into Finland and beyond. They did this in real life, the railroads excisted then and they excist today. I don't understand why Norway and Sweeden have becomed an island (the lack of map to the north is alright, I mean the linkage). If you really want to spice this game up, then you should allow this operational manuver, for the axis - without forcing the axis to actually defeat Sweeden. Sweeden used some diplomacy like this to avoid getting attacked, and it worked. Both ways. Not really neccesary though, just a gimmic. 2) Free French continues fighting till either they are dead, or the war is over. As it is now, they surrender when Britain surrender Why? I don't understand that. USA gave the Free French lend-lease, so they should be able to draw supply from USA in case UK surrenders. At the very least, they should continue to excist, even if they can't draw supply from USA. 3) Free Commonwealth Think about this. Is it unrealistic? I remind you of Churchills famous words: "We shall fight them wherever they may be. We shall never surrender!" I can list a number of good arguments for this, but I am keeping it short So I just ask you to think about this. Perhaps you should think about "Britain" as "Commonwealth", then it makes even more sence. 4) Egypt is made a nation within the Commonwealth, the same way Canada is. In addition, 1 unit can be built per turn in Canada and Egypt each. This would increase tensions in North-Africa alot, as Italy now actualy got a reason to go and take Egypt (the MPP reward, simulating the loss of the extremely important Suez canal). Alot of Commonwealth soldiers came to fight in the European Teathre thru the Suez canal. New Zealanders, South-Africaans, Australians, and so forth. By making it possible to build 1 unit per turn in Alexandria, this would be simulated, without unbalancing it. Britain would probably not build 1 unit per turn in Egypt anyway (she needs to spend MPP other places too). In addition, though this is not neccesary but would please alot of gamers...Canada and Egypt is able to continue collect their MPP from their 2 respective countries factories, after UK and her colonies fall. Might not be much, might mean much less, but it will feel real good! 4) Give the Finnish hex right above Leningrad the famous fortification hex that is found in France. That would solve that issue Alternatively, you could just give them max entrenchment value from the beginning. The unit bordering Leningrad that is. 5) Ability to transport rocket units I don't see any reason why this cannot be done. Even the biggest rocket units can be taken apart, loaded on transport ships, shipped to another harbour, and assemlied again. 6) USA is given the ability to reinforce minor countries units, in the event that UK is toasted If UK is defeated now, then the minor countries cannot be reinforced at all. USA should be able to continue this work. 7] Iraq is an axis-minor, with a pro-axis coup similar to the one found in Yoguslavia True, although this part of the war has gone unnoticed by most, it still happened. And hey, the 30 soldiers defending Copenhagen, is in this game a full-strenght Corp that may take 2 turns to defeat. The Commonwealth used the coup as an excuse to take control of the nation (and Syria as well as Persia later on). 8) A Danish port at strenght0, so boats can move thru until Denmark is conquered and the passage is filled with mines and secured I know you have been thinking about this, but it still is on my wishlist for Christmas Just think about it? ~Norse~

The game is biased, it is called the initiative. To win the game, you must understand what to do in order to take the initiative from the enemy, so he doesn't win. This requires understanding of the underlying game mechanics. If the Germans build alot of Luftwaffe, which is biased, then they have the initiative so they win. The trick is to understand what you need to do in order to take the initiative from the Germans, so you win instead. It is difficult. War is hell. And Lou, please read my full suggestion (the first post) before whining about how you attack ww1 style, loose all your units, and how biased the game is... War IS bias. Face it. ~Norse~ (sorry about the edit) [ October 22, 2002, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: Norse ]

[ October 22, 2002, 01:41 AM: Message edited by: Norse ]

Good question, I have noticed readiness increase between 30% to 100% depending on quality of the HQ, supply and experience points A battered corp completely out of supply have been at 12% readiness, with 4 point experience units attached to my best headquarters have had 110%+ readiness score. [ October 22, 2002, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: Norse ]

Lou Wigman, I belive you didn't read the above strategy suggestion, as I strongly advice against attacking ww1 style (also called, the newbie style ). By delaying the Germans at the front, and focusing on a defensive line further behind, then you will get a shot at holding your own against the Germans by the time they get up to you. The German airfleets won't be able to reach your units there right away, so it will take some time for them to get up, and most likely they are getting used on attacking your garrisons up front - slowing them down even more. By the time they get up, you have collected enough MPP to buy more airfleets on your own. So don't say it is impossible, I have done this again and again successfully Don't give up already. It's not impossible, it's just a great challenge (and the heroes emerge from the challenges, don't they? ) ~Norse~