Brightblade

Martin, you are right of course, what I said is not necessarily true. I only thought of targets close behind or in a visual obstacle. Then it´s not too hard to adjust if you didn´t hit, after all you got the tracer in the round, an explosive filler in many cases which makes it easier to spot the impact etc. I admit it´s probably still not exactly as easy to hit as if the target stood on open ground, but it´s not much more difficult. If the target is farther away from the obstacle, it might be harder to adjust the next shot as the impact might be obscured by the obstacle. Night and snow are a different thing. I know that it´s quite hard to see anything at all under such conditions. As I said before, when I started this thread I assumed that atmosheric conditions had only a minor influence on the hit chances, if any at all. I learned that this assumption was wrong and it´s fine that way, being more realistic. [ January 16, 2003, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Brightblade ]

Originally posted by Xerxes: You are right, in reality a target will be obscured by whatever in almost any cases. However that will in reality influence how easy or how difficult it is to spot the target, not how easy it is to hit. Once spotted, the target may hide behind brushes or scattered trees as much as it wants, as long as it isn´t moving, it will be hit just as if it stands on open ground. It´s a bit different with shell blocking obstacles like houses, hills, thick walls etc. Then the target is actually smaller and therefore more difficult to hit. Once you spotted some part of a tank, you can deduce from this where the rest has to be, so you will aim in the middle of some brushes or right through a hedge where you expect a good point to aim and although you don´t see the specific part of the target where you aim at, you will hit it very likely. If the target or shooter is moving however, keeping track of the target even through only visual obstacles can be hard. [ January 16, 2003, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: Brightblade ]

When I started this topic I assumed that the bad weather conditions wouldn´t have much effect on the hit chances. This assumption was wrong as I had to learn. The second T-34 even had to be very lucky to hit with both shots because now it has 48% hit chance on the destroyed StuH. On the other hand, how would you try to avoid fighting very near to max LOS in such situations? 60m are enormously close for tank fights and to get even closer might be very difficult. As Russian you can´t rely on IAT, because they don´t have anything like the Panzerschreck, Panzerfaust or Bazooka and tank hunter teams and engineer squads have to get much closer and their hit chances usually are not very good. BTW, why didn´t the Russians have Bazookas? The USA sent virtually anything to them, food, boots, telephone wire, HTs, tanks, aircrafts, why not Bazookas? [ January 16, 2003, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Brightblade ]

Finally I got the next file. The hue of the LOS tool was quite dark, the hit chance for the next shot is 79%. It´s only cool there, so according to the manual neither optic should be better or worse than normally. Anyways, due to the dark LOS and the current hit chance I guess I have to accept that poor visibility reduces hit chances considerably, which is very realistic IMO. I simply had a streak of bad luck (which might be the result of bad karma, as Michael emrys already assumed ) and I apologise for anything I said before for which someone thinks an apology is appropriate. [ January 16, 2003, 04:52 AM: Message edited by: Brightblade ]

I´m still waiting for the next file in which I can check the hue of blue of the LOS tool and the hit chance of the 5th shot (which may never be fired if the assault gun fires first). However if my tank missed four times due to very bad visibility, this assault gun had to be very lucky to score with its first shot. BTW, only twenty meters to the right of my T-34 stands a second T-34 which engaged a StuH 42 at 48m in the same turn. Two shots, two hits.

Just a question to better understand: do atmosheric conditions aside from max. LOS influence the hit chance in CMBB? If so I apologise for my statements. In reality it is certainly very hard even to spot a tank at night with heavy snow, much harder to hit with all handicaps mentioned (stress, snow covered optics etc).

@ Vanir: Have you ever been inside a tank? I have to admit, I only know modern tanks and modern optics, although modern emergency optics are quite the same like WW2 main optics. I very much doubt that a tank ever missed a target at that distance. If it had been moving - OK, maybe; if the shooter had been moving - quite likely without stabilizer; but both, target and shooter stood still during all four shots. I would bet anything I possess that such a thing never ever happened in real life. @ Bruno Weiss: You are right, the game should not be too predictable. But even in real life some things are predictable. Missing that often at that distance is simply unrealistic. Even the first shot at that distance - given it´s night, snowing and Russian optics are not so good - should have a hit chance of at least 80%. Any one following should have 100%. @ MrSpkr: Same question as before: Have you ever been inside a tank? Have you ever looked through tank optics? They may be a bit off, of course. At higher distances, say 500m and more, something like what you described might happen. But at a distance of 58m the optic may be as far off as possible, through the very limited field of view it is virtually impossible to miss once, let alone twice or four times as in my case. But let´s assume the gunner was suddenly struck blind by a god, at that distance the commander could try a shot from the hip, aiming just by the end of the barrel, and had a good chance to hit. Or he could tell the loader to aim through the barrel, just before he loads the next round. @ Michael emrys: Yours is the most likely explanation of the phenomenon. I thought I already had paid for my misdoings, but it seems like I was wrong there Maybe I should just end my miserable life and try anew [ January 15, 2003, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Brightblade ]

In a PBEM nightbattle at snow, max. LOS 60m, I recieved a file today and I just can´t believe what happened there. One of my veteran T-34/85 hunts to an assault gun (maybe a StuH 42) and aquires target at 58m. So far, so good. Fire. Missed. OK, have to accept that in the game, it´s pretty unrealistic at that distance while neither target nor shooter are moving, but it happened in CMBO (e.g. with a Crack Panther at 47m in daylight) and it happened in other CMBB battles before and it´s night, bad visibility etc. Second shot. Missed! Alright, the gunner seems to have a pretty bad day (the target continues to fire at its area target next to my T-34 so it´s not that bad yet). Third shot. Missed!! Don´t know for sure what I would have done as TC of that absolute imbecile of a gunner, but I guess it wouldn´t have been nice! The target finally notices that it´s being shot at, so it aims at my T-34, shoots, front turret penetration, no serious damage. What a relieve. Fourth shot. MISSED!!! Movie clip ended here and I have to wait for the next file to find out about the hit chances, but this is ridiculous! A tank crew with a gunner like this one could never have achieved veteran status! I don´t know how bad Russian optics were, but at that distance the target must have filled the whole sight of the gunner, so missing would have been pretty impossible! Don´t misunderstand me, I really love the game. It´s definitely the best tactic game available and very realistic in many aspects, but BTS, please fix or do somefink! [ January 15, 2003, 05:30 AM: Message edited by: Brightblade ]

That´s just because it´s historically more or less correct. The Germans couldn´t replace their losses as easy as the Allies, though some of their tanks were of considerably higher quality (Panther, Tiger) than what the Allies had for most of the war. That distribution is quite balanced, as you usually need several Allied tanks to outmaneuvre a German heavy and probably you´ll lose a few of them - if it works at all...

Does anybody know? I searched for it but couldn´t find it (it´s not 640, that´s rough). Thanks.

Originally posted by JasonC: The date in the scenario listing usually says when the scenario is taking place. That´s only interesting for historical or fictional scenarios, not for QBs. When adding a QB to the data base, date is usually set to 01-01-00, being the first date available. The dates of actual QBs played are not reported. But you are right, that information would certainly be quite important for a statistic like this.

The last number (always double-digit) is actually two numbers. It´s the width in the stadia(? don´t know if that´s the correct term in English) optics when the Tiger can kill the enemy, fist number frontally, second number from the side.

Originally posted by Leutnant Hortlund: The translation is not quite correct. It´s about: "Save ammunition, one full load of it is enough to gain a Knight´s cross." Just a minor thing but anyway Knight´s crosses were not that easy to earn

When it´s extreme cold it won´t be really snowing, but if you add some strong wind ground snow may be swirled around coming pretty close to snowing, at least with regard to limited LOS.

[deleted because it became obsolete] [ January 04, 2003, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Brightblade ]

CMBB Manual, page 63

Originally posted by commie18: Units won´t earn experience in the game. But you can select a certain experience level when you choose your forces. Then a certain amount (10%) of troops should be one level better than what you selected (the only way to get elite troops in QBs is to buy cracks and hope for this), the same(?) amount should be one level lower than what you selected. That´s all. I placed a question mark behind the "same" because that´s exactly what I wanted to know. [ January 01, 2003, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Brightblade ]

I asked because I just set up a little battle against the AI with only cracks on my side. One infantry squad was downgraded to veteran, but no unit got elite status. I have only on-map units (and only very few), so I probably didn´t miss anything.

In CMBB some units are upgraded some are downgraded, I know that. What I wanted to ask is if that usually happens in a one for one system, i. e. one unit goes one level up, so another unit will go one level down, or if it´s pure chance, i. e. if one unit is downgraded, it doesn´t necessarily mean that another is upgraded. [ January 01, 2003, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: Brightblade ]

Infantry firepower is an abstraction for this game only. The higher the better. Armour numbers is thickness in mm and degrees of the slope, so it´s always good if the xx is high (for armour protection at least, it usually increases weight and in that way reduces mobility and that´s negative). You have to be careful with the yy numbers, as it depends if it´s degrees from the horizontal or from the vertical. In the game it´s from the vertical, so the higher the number, the better. In some books on armour it´s degrees from the horizontal, so the smaller the number the better. [ December 31, 2002, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: Brightblade ]

If one side surrenders, the only men still "OK" are those who left the battlefield during the battle. Anyone else is captured, becomes POW and therefore is not "OK" anymore.

Sorry Shadow 1st Hussars, no offence meant, but people (well, me at least) tend to miss the most obivious... And Oddball_E8 is right (as you probably guessed yourself). Did some little test and that was what happend.

Are you sure the squad didn´t have to have two MG34? There are quite some German squads who do...

ATG should be placed in woods or scattered trees whenever possible. That way they are protected from direct fire (though maybe more vulnerable to artillery in form of treebursts), but which is more important, they are much harder to spot. Usually they can fire several rounds before anyone notices it. Don´t shoot too early, whenever possible don´t fire at distances of more than 500m (17 pdr maybe up to 700m). That way they should score with only a few shots and have a good chance not to be detected. When a gun is spotted and your opponent still has some artillery left, it´s as good as dead. You can only try to move it away then. So, if you hold their fire at the beginning, your opponent may use up his artillery and when your guns start to fire from their hidden positions, they are quite hard to take out. [ December 27, 2002, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: Brightblade ]

Well, I guess most German soldiers had a very similar opinion on Italian troops in North Africa. I remember a quote from a German war diary saying "Und wären uns die Italiener nicht zu Hilfe gekommen, so mancher deutsche Landser wäre noch am Leben" (And if the Italians hadn´t helped us, quite some German Landser would still be alive). That´s not my opinion, I wasn´t there, so I don´t know how far it´s justified or not.