Desert Dave

Excellent analogy for the "random events" that I have been actively campaigning for since the very beginning. Whether you posit these events as selected from a "deck of cards" are only located in the Computer Program's vast memory banks, In any event, and however implemented, this would allow tremendous and VERY exciting game variations, which would in turn... require that each player be able to REACT to some little thing that goes WRONG, or RIGHT, as the case may be. **BTW, Edwin P ... thanks for the links to those Totaler Kreig "event cards." I haven't played that particular game; it is one of the VERY few WW2 games that I have missed out on... I wonder where I might find it? Any ideas, other than E-Bay? Back to the EVENT topic: I am sure sore CONVINCED that introducing this sort of random action WOULD NOT interfere with ordinary, mundane, cookie-cutter, vanilla play. It could even be a "toggle-on/off" aspect of SC2, so that those who "despise being surprised" could simply ignore it. Yes! Let's have a "virtual deck of cards" with all manner of interesting (... AND, strictly relevant to WW2 Ops) variations! ***(... could even be added-to and updated over the course of time, so that eventually there might be a hundred! or more of these... SC2 SERENDIPITIES!!! )

Sure we can... youth always thinks so. Speaking of which, where have you been CvM ? :eek: The Cardinals weren't THAT bad this year, were they, you had to hide out for so long, not wanting to show yer face? Well, I see that your bully Rams beat my beloved and inanely administered and inelegantly QB'd Cleveland FB club tonight, yeah, It's like I said... Youth, and Time... and Bigger Guns, wins again. The Integral stage has not hardly arrived; yet we must abide the Meme of pluralistic and narcissistic hegemony. It is trying to murder us all. Is all. :eek:

Edwin P, Thanks for compiling this list, and updating it as new "official" developments are revealed. Hope you will continue to do so, as we all tend to get a bit... anxious, Waiting for the TINIEST smidgeon of news. :cool: Well, after all, SC2 IS something to really look forward to, yes? Given what has been so adeptly done with the Original SC, and given ALL of the discussion over the last 19 months or so... WHO KNOWS! What will actually happen. It is like being a little kid again, TRYING to contain the excitement... all the wrapping-up and bustle and cookie-making and tree-lights twinkling and favorite (or, crazy!) relatives visiting and, well, you know what I mean...on Christmas Eve... And sure, we are all little kids, else we wouldn't be so... CHARMED about... a GAME. Playing games, alone or with friends, helps to deflect all those day to day worries and conflicts. HOORAY! That we have this... easy anxiety. It merely means we are TRULY interested, and not just cynical, jaded or indifferent. Well, forgive me, it's... the coming Season... for cheer.

Hooray! kurt88 ... you have said it far better than I... great action pic!

Yep, poor old clanking tank is somewhat limited in its usefulness. The longer you play, the more woeful and bedraggled it becomes. BUT, early in the game, it has great utility, especially in Russia BEFORE they have gotten much if any... anti-tank tech. Encirclements, resource nabbing and clouting the behind-the-lines AFs for example. So. What is the ideal number? I would say... 4. Any more than that and you are wasting MPPs, IMO, which could be better used elsewhere. Besides, later you can deploy the VERY inexpensive Corps in a similar sort of mobile adventuring. No doubt, the SOON-coming! Can't wait! SC2... will provide a more menacing and longer lasting blitz-tank. With a better and stronger sloping armor configuration so to deflect the upgrades in anti-tech. :cool:

Yeah, now that I think on it, this seems to be my reasoning as well, since I rarely take on that charming little Alpine Community either... which is not actually the BEST way to play a game, but... I can't seem to get over it. Somehow, it just doesn't seem RIGHT to attack Switzerland. This is similar to my great hesitation in attacking Sweden, which as we all suspect, has more beautiful women than anywhere else on earth. Why unnecessarily antagonize all those potential movie-stars? You may not finally get that prized autograph to complete your Celeb collection, true? True also that the mountain defense barrier eventually works to the Axis advantage, so why not let the Swiss guards defend if it should come to it? **Interesting to me that one of the very best, if not THE best SC player would have this little QUIRK in his game (... though, he HAS warned that he... MIGHT do it, so you can't take that competitive edge to the bank)... emotional play, eh? Well, I guess it goes to show... he and most of the rest of us aren't actually SC Mimeo Machines after all.

You did? When might we, That staid old SC Celestial Choir, Get to stand stunned! aside and... admire! Some insight-brightening... lightning! Would you suppose?

That once and unfortunate parrot Is a pretty little sight All right, East Front, the West approaches, All around the Town :cool: You should see it! Shake... the brittle tail-feathers! Then it... "flutters" Into the mosh-pit, And tries, And tries! (... c'mon guys!) To get... down! :eek:

That once and unfortunate parrot Is a pretty little sight All right, East Front, the West approaches, All around the Town :cool: You should see it! Shake... the brittle tail-feathers! Then it... "flutters" Into the mosh-pit, And tries, And tries! (... c'mon guys!) To get... down! :eek:

:confused: What is the point of this reply? Can you not discuss issues without flaming someone? Rather, not someone... but me. What's the matter, you don't... like me... oh, LOL! I am... STUPID... You seem to be the only member who is allowed to get away with this kind of low level nonsense... very odd. There are others I can think of would be banned for these sort of personal attacks. Grow up... finally?

If I didn't CARE I wouldn't have spent 18 months posting on this forum. I have never bashed you about anything Zapp so let's just cool off a little, yes? Anyway, consider this: IF it is D-Day time, and BOTH sides have... let's say, L2 AA, then BOTH sides will have equal advantage, true? IOW, the Axis can attack from a city, with L2 AA, and force the Allies to intercept at a disadvantage. Therefore, NEITHER side has a greater advantage. Of course, this depends on whether either side will invest 250-500 MPPs for AA tech. Some, like Terif perhaps, will forego that tech because they have OTHER strategies in mind. I wouldn't complain unduly about this, unless and until you have MUCH MORE game-play evidence that it would NECESSARILY cause a serious problem. My guess (... yes, Zapp, just like my other GUESS that MOST players wouldn't be bothered by this) is that there are surely... DISADVANTAGES to investing too many MPPs in AA. And besides, wouldn't you REALLY TRULY rather have SC2, which will "clean up" many of these small quirks (... to include LC gambit and transport issues) sooner? The sooner we get SC2, the sooner we can begin discussing, civily, ALL the New! and exciting game features! You have been around awhile Zapp and have valuable insights and comments to offer... nobody is saying otherwise... :cool:

Condor and Terif are right. There is no such thing as a PERFECT product, I don't care whether it is... a computer game, a shiny new Volvo or a #2 pencil. For those who are "competitive perfectionists" and who scrabble around to find every TINY advantage, well, as Terif has also said... maybe it is time to just... have FUN again. You CAN anyway have a house rule that AFs cannot base in cities, and the Carrier cannot attack from a port... whatever! After all, there are HRs for several other problem areas, why not this one as well... IF it bothers you. It doesn't bother me a whit. ***I IMPLORE you, Hubert... continue with SC2, and don't let this very MINOR glitch INTERFERE with that design and production. Anyway, my guess is this: 99.99% of the gamers out here DO NOT truly care about this new "bug." I don't. I would challenge anyone... name ONE finished computer game that does not STILL HAVE some small way to exploit game-play, whether you call it a bug or a hot-key cheat... c'mon guys, this is not worth the DELAY for SC2, no way, no how. So. I would say... let the FEW who cannot sleep right at night over this VERY TINY glitch, well, let them... not sleep quite right at night, and let's keep SC2 moving... FORWARD! :cool:

A "maybe" can be interpreted MANY different ways, depending on inflection or body language or what kind of "smiley" is chosen? For instance: Maybe meaning... NO, like when you are 9 years old and ask for a baseball glove that costs $200. Never going to happen, T-ball babe, but rather than destroy, once and for all time a young Joe Dimaggio's dreams, the parents will say... "maybe." Maybe meaning... MAYBE, as when you are 12 years old and tearing up the baby-faced pitchers in Little League... and you ask for the same baseball glove, only it now cost $250.00 and the bread-winner of the family has just gotten a new raise, so-o-o-o... Maybe meaning... PROBABLY, like when you are 15 years old and Babe Ruth League has NEVER seen the like... you ask for the same baseball glove (... now $300.00) EXCEPT... you have been "scouted" by the St Louis Cardinals and the parents are beginning to wonder... can the Wonder Boy ACTUALLY become a bonus-baby Pro... think of it! A Condo on the water... in cool-cool Honolulu! :cool: Maybe meaning... YES, as when you are 18 years old and ask for a ride to the airport in the old clanking 4-door family sedan... since you just signed a lucrative contract with the Louisville Sluggers, and the parents are beyond... wondering, they KNOW it's now time to begin considing that long desired trip to visit and chant... OM, OMMM with the most famous Llama in Tibet. So. What is the case here? With Hubert's "maybe." I would say... hmmmmm, MAYBE... meaning... you'll just have to wait and see, somebody ELSE bought that one last model of the baseball glove you always hoped and dreamed about, and so... How about? that Marv Throneberry model instead? Sure, we know he wasn't any Yankee Clipper, BUT... didn't he once get honorable mention for... best and most animated cheers! from the bench, or something?

If the game is touted and marketed to be concerned with World War II, then that is what I want, and NOT some pinball-wizard encounter where you can skitter off in all kinds of screw-loose directions. :eek: It should be VERY HARD to win the game as Axis. But, it should be... possible. How you accomplish that... does matter. You shouldn't have TOO MANY "gamey" opportunities, without paying the appropriate price for these misadventures. Good example is the Allies attacking the Low Countries. What chance, in light of historical evidence, that this would EVER happen? I would say, slim to 0.0001 per cent. Yet, here, it happens way too often. EVERY WW2 game-maker "fudges" the OOBs and the interplay of tech/diplomacy/economics. Else, you would NOT have an interesting and competitive contest. So, sure, you have to play around with the schematics and mechanics until some semblance of historical precedent is attained. But, not to lose the true "historical flavor" or else you may just as well be playing any of 100s of other games. You could always just PRETEND that Civ3 or C&C is ACTUALLY about a WW2 type conflict, yes? Long answer shortened... do whatever is necessary to allow "what-ifs" and a SMALL chance for the Axis to conquer the whole known world. BUT, keep the historical imperatives so that you actually and REALLY feel like you are re-enacting that conflict.

Since this is a field that I WORK in, day in and day out, I can tell you this much. There is not ANY medicine that EFFECTIVELY solves substance abuse problems, either. Unless you'd prefer to trade one "addiction" for another. Or, have your neuro-transmitters and brain synapses altered more or less permanently. Many drugs are synergistic (... combine with another drug to exaggerate the effect), and which will plug-in to an EXACT location in the brain. Most drugs have side-effects that are unique to each individual, given that each person has unique hard wiring in the brain. Most so-called Scientific studies are novel and incomplete. No valid and general conclusion can yet be reached... there are ONLY educated guesses. For those who suffer from ADVANCED symptoms, for depression or anti-social behaviors and other related problems medicines as broadly categorized, CAN be of some lasting benefit, but, it is imperative, as with all other diseases, to get a second opinion. However, they are NOT a magic-bullet pill that will solve all your difficulties. Some Psychiatrists will dispense medicines as though they were candy from a jar. Others are more careful. You need to be careful too, because you do NOT want to end up as a "guinea pig" for, essentially, a new product that the Drug Company is trying to market. In general, the very best advice for anyone "addicted" is to consult a Professional who actually works in the field, day in and day out... too many people have been hurt by advice from casual observers. This is a serious issue, and deserves serious attention. Addiction to video games can ruin a life, as surely as addiction to crack, or meth, or Ecstasy, or Valium. If you are worried about it... see a professional in your area... DO NOT accept well-meaning but necessarily incomplete advice from amateurs... please.

Yes... LOL! Although, the funny thing is, or... perhaps not so awful... mirthful... MANY Also believe, O most hilariously! the same thing! Like, Corporate CEOs, And rock stars and sports heroes! And many, many in American Congress, And many, many in American Military, And... well, on and on we could so merrily go! So. It's quite simple, really... pretend! You... go... TRA LA LA!... right along with them... LOL! And... then... :cool:

Hmmm... an ODD way to go about bringing the members... together, no? :confused: You don't like everyone, and some you even... despise! Is this akin to the "do not respond-to" lists? Or, the exclusive club-house atmosphere, where some, who are DIFFERENT, or SPEAK THEIR OWN MIND... are accidentally shut out? O... LOL! No one person can CONTROL everything... IMHO, no one should... even try. :cool:

Yes, this would be another aspect to be considered. :cool: Several of us have suggested that this could be a way to bolster hapless Russia, until they are able to gear up in the later revenge-is-mine years... simply have their Cities increase in value over time. Thus, Moscow would gradually increase in size/value until it reaches, oh, say 20 or so. This would reflect the shifting of industrial wherewithall, and the mustering of energized labor. OR, as you say, allow it to be deliberately upgraded, industrially/infrastructurally. This is a whole area that can be adroitly addressed. And, as JP Wagner has reminded, not ANY doubt that Hubert has already considered many of these schemes, and chooses those that personally fit his vision. Now, I am NOT suggesting micro-management of cities and resources (... for some this would be a terrible consequence, since they want to keep it... simple; well, many of us want it more detailed)... rather, I AM suggesting that this game, ANY game, can be enhanced by... those small and important details that make of a game... virtual reality. :cool: What do I mean? The more that you can be... IMMERSED in a Fantasy World (... in this case, WW2 Europe and environs) so that you IMAGINE that you... are really truly THERE! , well, the more you are... satisfied that you are indeed re-enacting the old conflicted world, rather than merely "toying around" with an obviously ersatz product, yes? ************** Incidentally, I AM surprised that, despite ALL! the fertile and clever minds that inhabit this Forum, very FEW of these fledglng game-makers have contributed... ANY ideas. What is it? :confused: So concerned with As The SC World Turns? ... that you can't think of any CITY ENHANCEMENTS? ... well shoot, maybe its really a dumb idea after all, eh? Though, ahem, I myself really-really like the VIRTUAL possiblities. [ November 03, 2003, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Immer Etwas ]

Well, there are certain benefits. For example, I get a 9% reduction in price whenever I buy my organic-herbal remedies, AND! I can get away with odd remarks, since nobody likes to pummel an old guy! ... do they? :eek: [ October 31, 2003, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Immer Etwas ]

I believe you. The evidence is... compelling. ***************************************** Please Note: ... concerning the current curtailed and confused condition of men... and NOT whether someone, anyone, cheats or not. As far as I'm concerned, that is nigh impossible to prove and besides... anybody who cheats at ANYTHING... merely soils their very own one-only Soul, so... that is an individual choice, eventually... with particular consequences, even if... not just today... ahem ) [ October 31, 2003, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Immer Etwas ]

All right, for over a year and a half we have talked about various NEW! Ideas that we would like to see implemented. Nothing wrong with that, since all of us are in fact or merely wishing to be war-game designers, so How about... City Enhancements! For example: There could be a choice on the drop down box for each City, one of which could be... Anti Aircraft. Spend xxx amount of MPPs, and that city, and that city ONLY, would have some small benefit (... which, incidentally, also depends on research achievements in our NEW! and expanded tech tree) against Strat Bombing (... in the new schematic, Air Fleets could NOT bomb, only Tac or Strat Bombers... I hope :cool: ). Spend xxx amount of MPPs, and that city, and that city ONLY, would be able to create/expand... the RAILHEAD. Which means, Op moves would receive added benefit. Remember, now, in our NEW! schematic, Op moves are based on actual ability to utilize the EXISTING infrastructure, which also could be improved through SPECIFIC tech achievements and/or coerced road labor crews, etc. OK. Now you have placed a RAILHEAD in Kiev. No longer does it take so darned long to get those direly needed replacements to the crumbling Front. Also, since you have "railheads" in intervening cities all along the way toward conquering the Whole Known World, why, the COST would be LESS. Those who don't build AA or Railheads or whatever else these our cunning and clever minds can conceive of... for the NEW! City Enhancements, well, they will pay the price of higher cost and slower Op Movement. What else? Perhaps you could even expand the Arts Program in each city, say, like Cologne or Barcelona, but... well, I guess that idea is a bit out of the realm of War gaming. :eek: Anyway, what say you all?

Not if you implement the Special-Event generator, which will have! A great and comprehensive Library of incidents and events and Action-Chances to choose from. I am ignorant as a fence-post on Coding difficulties, but... seems to me once you create the Event mechanism itself, you would merely have to type out various incident/events to be selected, no? (... with corresponding game results, but of course). 1938 seems a good time to begin. For the life of me, I don't see why this short revving-up period would take more than 5 or 9 minutes... and besides, it could be a toggle-on/off kind of thing, so those that prefer simplicity could retain it. And, assuming that the events/incidents themselves would be small and without tremendous impact, AND... dependent on choices made with the NEW! Diplomatic model, why... why not? I wouldn't mind seeing some random chances for Poland's set-up, depending on political outcomes, nor would I mind MOST ESPECIALLY, The chance to build PRECISELY the units I want, and place them PRECISELY where I want them. :cool:

I like this idea, but I would go for, say, early in 1938. It would be far easier to set up game-play, since most belligerents would already be... wolves, or lambs. :eek: And, if you start too early, you might well become bored with the purely political gamesmanship. There are other entire games devoted to JUST the '36-'39 period, yes? Also, if it is 1938, "historical" WW2 would at least be... close to reality, allowing for some small departures with... maybe the Czechs, and Poland's handling of Danzig, and a few of the not-so-committed Minors, like Spain and Denmark and even Bulgaria, which could be influenced through certain Diplomatic action-chances. Also, this would give more than adequate time to arrange your own OOB, ie, decide which units you think you might need, and where they should start. If we do get that slowed-down production line, then, of course, some decisions would have to be made pretty quick, and right away.

Well, all it would take to quite seriously counter that would be... L1 anti-tank for the Russians, yes? Having played many games, it was only in a recent game against that most-nefarious foe, Bill Macon that I truly realized just HOW potent the anti-tank tech advance can be... :eek: **More great suggestions, BTW... if I didn't suspect better, I would imagine that you are an off-shoot of the Grecian Oracle! :cool:

Well said. :cool: Having an open, interested mind, And being WILLING to appreciate another point of view, And having genuine empathy for ANY... Other, Well, It ain't liberal OR conservative. It's... being human. As human as any one can get. Yeah babe, it can be a HARD rain, that falls. EVERYBODY, yep, every-flimsy-body gets... equally wet. [ October 30, 2003, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: Immer Etwas ]