Desert Dave

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! Oh, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Not true! I guess I have been around about as long as anyone posting here, and I can tell you this: I for one ain't no soft-hand, fat jowl'd, clean-knee Republican, thank the almighty Lord! Look here, unless you have lived in America for a very long time, you can't really KNOW what is going on. Same way I couldn't possibly KNOW what the true political picture is in Belgium. Let's put it this way. Currently, in America (... and, I surely suspect, in Europe as well) the Plutocrats are ascendant. These are the ones who make their money off of... OTHER people's labor. Used to be it was good old faithful and QUIETLY patriotic American Workers that were exploited. Now, since those workers finally got smart and got their "rights" and a minimum of "work-place safety" and finally, just... earned TOO MUCH, the workers in India or China or Indonesia are being exploited, and THEIR lands polluted. The Corporate CEOs swagger and brag and play golf a lot and have sufficient hi-tech health care and can buy the very best of organic foodstuffs and pleasure-craft to roam the waterways, and also copious amounts of drugs, which they label as legal, but are actually worse than most drugs deemed illegal. That way they won't have to go to jail for over indulging. But, They don't actually... work, themselves. The one thing they absolutely need, nay, REQUIRE, is for a small, hard-edged group of filthy mouth minions to dominate and control the Mass Media. Once they do that, as they have here in America (... and, they are paid huge amounts to do it; being finally truly Selfish, all they can think about is... money, and what it will buy them, though, of course, LOL! they soon die and can't take any of that stuff with them), then they can lie and lie and lie again and again and again, telling everyone that Black is indeed White, and that War is really truly Peace, and genuine, thoughtful Patriots are actually... Cowards. Have no fear, Qyusson, we KNOW what is happening here. We WILL solve the problem, soon enough, you'll see. (... example: rather than rant on forums, we are out signing up new and old Voters and quietly talking about REAL issues. The State I live in will be closely contested, so I spend lots of time as a volunteer making sure that this "little d" Democracy actually works!) Those sissy sociopathic Chicken-Hawks (... MOST of whom... NEVER fought for their Country when they had the chance, as in Vietnam, or just... ran stupidly drunk & smirking from the battle and hid out in a saloon for the duration) will soon be found out... EVEN by those simple, leave-me-alone folks who mostly just want some elbow room so they can farm their land, or make their little honest Artisan creations, and then go to the Ice Cream Parlor on a happy Saturday night! Nope, not all members here are Republicans. Thank the good Lord.

Well, as we sure suspect, This would be no problem whatsoever. Then, 1944, Or, when I was in, 1966-68, Or now. Too many like to strut along With the shoulder-rolling bullies. Always a problem. Excellent point, however, about Ancient invaders. **(... original "beserkers" were those Vikings - do you know how they "psyched" themselves up? What "magic elixir" they drank? ) I suppose, IF GErmany had truly WANTED To invade USA, They could have. Certainly. Lots of pristine, resource-rich land (... well, there used to be, but Teddy Roosevelt is not around to fend off the Corporate Raiders no more... :eek: ) And lots of GErman-Americans to TRY and enlure Into "Father-land" mythology. However, IMHO, more likely that you'd have Two super-powers staring each In the face, MAD as hell And NOT! going to take it anymore. [... "mutually assured destruction" I mean, just as it happened vis-a-vis USA & USSR). Interesting to speculate, Nothing wrong with that, but There's just no way to REALLY KNOW What would have happened, Other than the aforementioned Bully Parade.

Well, too bad. Because... the occult IS indeed intricately ENmeshed in all of the other areas you... as Post-modern, Deconstructing... Doktor Faust, ... are Dangerously... dabbling in. :eek: Suffice it to say, no-one... KNOWS What any of this stuff means. Or, portends. Yet, they like to PRETEND that they do. Advanced degrees mean NOTHING when "The Not Knowable" Is qua carelessly investigated. Actually better to merely operate on intuition And TRY to closely examine the subconscious, And the cellular memories. That mythic connection Accidentally collected. Near impossible to do, I appreciate, and Yet... a very few HAVE indeed gotten... close. Most of those were... shocked insane, and liable To be post-haste stuffed Into a padded cell. A few... a very few... yet roam among us... YOU! Have seen them, perhaps, and it was Likely this result: You shied away, stunned. You ran screaming as secretly as you could. You... accused. You helped Big Brother put them away, literally, By holding "the freak" down Until the Authorities might soon arrive, Strobe-lights squalling! Ah, let us not... "tamper" With... "odd phenomena." Scientists know better... they simply IGNORE (... and X-claim: superstition! Not yet explained! Co-incidence! Etc, etc, LOL!) ANYTHING... unusual. (... or, so we... suppose... LOL!) [ August 28, 2004, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

I suspect that TS Eliot's Hollow Man Had it about right... This World shall end Not with a... Bang! But, With... a whimper. I can just hear that ensuing en masse Middle-Class simpering now, As the black soot settles 'round... O! Why O why! did I EVER believe That Dumb-ass American Mass Media, That Souless, Corporate-Conglomerate controlled, Celebrity silly, Useless things be-shilling, Bread & Circus instilling, American (Huddled Mass) Media. Alas, Why, at last... it's my own! MOTE-muddled eyes! That's got me so Flim-flam befuddled!

Without doubt, that kind of thing would have done the same to me. Thanks again JJ, for all these great stories and anecdotes. :cool: No wonder to me that "the naked city" provides so much insight and inspiration for a Writer, as you yourself surely are... in all your travails and travels (... and, ecstasies as well) you have done a seriously great thing... remembered them. Thereby honoring the people, yet here or gone, and the times, and that terrific city itself. I salute you.

LOL! Ah, j_j_r, you are a finely crafted piece of work. Fair criticism, however; what do I actually think? Besides trying to somehow get at that "kaleidoscopic Gestalt" I mean? You want subjectively derived "facts?" OK. Why did GErmany lose WW2? 1) Because they couldn't build weapons and rolling stock as fast as the USA could. The war was instrumentally "won" in all those Industrial assembly-lines on the West Coast and around the Great Lakes. 2) Because Goering frittered away "the steel and the soul" of the Luftwaffe in The Battle of Britain. A waste of time, and daring, well trained men, and scarce materiels. 3) Because the GErmans didn't FOCUS the assault in Russia. Should have taken that "symbolic center of Power" - Moscow, instead of spreading their forces and stretching the front lines until... the Russians could re-group and hurl hastily recruited troops into " the Steppes thresher." 4) Because they finally ran out of hard-trained "Prussian" Cadre and were at last overwhelmed by fanatics & beserkers... immensely inventive and truly determined Allies as well. 5) Because they air assaulted Crete instead of Malta. 6) Because they built Tirpitz instead of better naval bombers and more advanced U-boots. 7) Because they started the war 3 years too early, and didn't allow sufficient time for their once superior technological knowledge to actually be tested and fully applied. 8) Because the SS was let loose to murder and massacre when THOSE faux soldiers should have been rounded up early and put deep in dungeons. A policy of trying to recruite the many, many millions who were opposed to Communism likely would have succeeded. 9) Because the GErman Volk were brainwashed by political leaders into believing all that seriously stupid stuff about the "manifest destiny of the superior race." Neitzsche's philosophy was manipulated and misunderstood, just like today. 10) Because Hitler and Himmler and Heydrich and Borman and all the rest of that street gang were "sissy sociopaths" who could NOT enact "normal" masculine traits and impulses... instead, they behaved like boorish bored children and laughed & laughed while they pulled the wings off of flies. Just like TOO many political leaders today. Well, there are 10... as Avatar has suggested, there are surely 100s more. **NOTE: As a young man I lived in GErmany for almost 4 years and can honestly tell you that there AIN'T much difference between the Volk I met over there, and the people I see walking around whistling Mad-Avenue jingles on Main Street, USA. Perhaps there was a bit more of that "Teutonic Spirit," where mundane and "mechanical aptitudes" are rigorously and STRICTLY applied. Whether it be crafting a Mercedes, or climbing an Austrian mountain, or... turning metaphysical contemplation into some kind of sheer logical exercise where the "great & sublime" is finally lost in that rude and dutiful "process." :eek: But, all in all, I am firmly believing that what happened in GErmany in the 1930s, could surely happen TODAY in USA... or Canada, or Kiev, or Bolivia or Tibet... or or or or. WW2 was no ABERRATION, it was simple and decent human beings... forgetting all about earned Epiphanies, and Art, and Grace, and commonly reached decisions & conclusions, and choosing (... often, by NOT choosing) WILL-FULLY to just... "let the damned Demons out" and oh gee whiz, we'll see... what might happen.

Way to go! Laurels! For you Liam, You have said it far better than I. So true about the "artists" allowing us A TINY glimpse Of the transcendental, The almost sublime. Perhaps... perhaps, FINALLY, One brilliant be-bop-along day! The artists and the scientists MIGHT... reach... a gracious accord? Or, O/W stated... WE might Realize the twinned-nature in each? [... one being momently ascendant, the other being briefly sublimated, and so it is... each of our CHOICE... which might be which, and when! :cool: ] _________________________ ... meanwhile, given the basic "nature" of Life as REALLY lived... where did I put my Bowie knife?

Tempting to believe it so. However, unlikely that God takes sides, unless You are talking about... being "on the side" Of...ALL Life. Whether it be that animating spirit In your fingernail, Or, in the refined feelers of a butterfly, Or - those leaves - now falling - from a tree. And sure, a dull dumb stone, even. Though... VERY likely (to me, at least) that God Is somehow "pleased" When "Evil" is... defeated. But, what is... Evil? That which destroys life? If that were true, then "nature" would be "evil." [... some rudely believe this IS so, else you wouldn't have the Environment NOW on the verge of ruination, would you?] Nature creates AND destroys every instant Of every day. So. It's Evil... ONLY when humans Destroy? :confused: Many think so, since humans have sentient capacity And should know better, but, alas, Mostly they don't. Maybe they never will, who knows? Just as in WW2-era when the GErman "leaders" (who had brutely usurped ordinary quasi-democratic State power) actively ENCOURAGED "lizard-brain" behaviors. :eek: That can happen ANYTIME, ANYWHERE, even now. There are "fundamentalists" happily Campaigning for MORE glory in war... in every Corner of the globe. Some are "freedom fighters" and some are deemed "terrorists" and some are called... Jane & Joe. History is rife with examples of Gathered groups - taking by FORCE What "righteously" belongs to... ALL of Life. Greatest mistake made by the GErmans? PRESUMING, with half a back-brain, That the rest of "polite society" would NOT Finally say - all right, enough is enough, You are mad, too bad, and need to be put down Like some rabid animal. Same way it was always done, in all tribes, Whenever a "psychotic killer" was on the loose And mindlessly preying on... "the innocent." Damn them! Hunt 'em down. No mercy, no relief. They won't EVER change, it's "in the blood." (... best to be absolutely CERTAIN about... WHO is mad, and who isn't; however, in the case of the Nazi and Soviet leaders, there wasn't much doubt, IMHO... nor, for those in command of the bombers, including the Allied side, that deliberately "terror bombed" civilians) No sense in wondering or rationalizing or Complaining about... evil. Standing up against "mad destroyers" is required For the common survival. Only, might we always appreciate that there IS Truly... "God-gifted life"...in a fingernail, An insect feeler Or, a recently fallen leaf. [... hey, just call me... "sensitive" I don't mind! :cool: ]

Ummmm, you have these computers Confused... Hal 9000 Is that yes-no, one-zero Spook who's become A souless Ashcroftian bureaucrat... ... now situated in a deep dark enclave Somewhere far, far under A smokey-top mountain... just, Fuming and glooming away! :eek: H.A.L. On the other hand, Signifies... Hubert's Amazing Logic, Which is mainly benign and benevolent And is merely interested in foiling The most determined SC friends & foes. :cool: Yet, no-one can... quite Master or remotely understand it. :confused: Not Zeno, half-way to the May-Day parade. Not Stephen Hawking, Parallel Universe grokking. Not Kubrick even or the Katzenjammer Kids, Nor, that hard-clap psychotic chap Freaking away At the Big Orange Clockworks. :eek: Nay, it's a rare, blue-moon kind of day When... ANYONE can... ken... H.A.L.

Edwin P, Seems as though... one time or another, And probably only lately, You have lived, yep, You have dauntlessly explored! those crags And crevices and peaks & valleys... INSIDE Of... a computer... LOL! JK, JK! Deconstructing anything, and especially Logical-Positive arrangements, CAN BE problematical. As example, the Greek Philosopher, Zeno I believe it to be, Was fair certain! (... as sly teaching device) That you might arrive at destination "B," From your starting point "A," By... traveling, first, half-way there. Then, from that half-way point, Half-way again. And again, and again. Well, as you might soon suspect, YOU WOULD NEVER EVER GET TO POINT B! :eek: Opposite way around is also true, If you see what I mean. _______________ Anyhow, it seems to me that it would be Most adroit and in accord with KISS principal (... otherwise known as Occam's Razor ) To just make the AI Absolutely the very best it could be Under ALL circumstances, And at ALL difficulty levels. That way EVERYONE would benefit from Identical AI choices and S&T excellence No matter what game they might play. :cool: Given our new Editor, It is now possible to "fine-tune" and Thoroughly "tweak" the Economic and Military Components, so that ANYONE, And I do MEAN - anyone, CAN achieve a "balanced game"... for themselves. It is very easy to do. No major overhauls or too-exacting demands On time or expertise. For example, IF I discover that I can... defeat The Allies just a bit too easily, Well, I simply adjust the "Industrial Modifier" (... for either side, + or - ) By, say - 5 % Or, change the unit costs, or the build penalty Or the Combat target values, Or the research limits or the diplomatic Penalties and leanings, and, Or or or or. OK. Back to the original suggestion (... and, nearly ALL of these are quite elaborate and X-tremely well thought out, BTW)... perhaps it would Be preferable to have the SAME and consistent AI plans & mechanics no matter what difficulty Level... IF that would detract from The other more valuable features That Hubert is NOW implementing. So long as there are not any OBVIOUS "cheats" By the AI, I am supposing That most Players will be satisfied. Naturally, Hubert can speak for himself, And may well conclude that your methodology Is something to consider. Or, he may have ALREADY done something similar, No way of knowing as of yet. Meanwhile, I will go out to the park For my daily 5-mile run. First, though, I will have to go Half-way there - somewhere in the neighborhood Of that new Minor League baseball stadium, And then... half-way again... and Eventually... I'll be so close - a Quark's width Distant from starting point "A," that I can Begin planning for water at... point "B?"

Ah, King Cats are the apt past-masters Of... all that they survey; Puppies are nice, but, Mainly and only - get in the way Of.. thundrous artillery dice! Loosed on... unsuspecting prey. :eek: __________________ Artillery is posited as part of The new SC2 "infantry weapons" Category. If you want that Xtra explosive advantage, well, You'll have to invest in research to get it. However, for those who truly MUST have Artillery pieces on the WW2 board (... or, in a created scenario, say, of the American Civil War) You might revamp the "rockets" category By "painting up" some new Picasso-esque icons and re-arranging The combat values a little, And presto, there you have the cannons!

Yer welcome indeed Edwin P. **Somewhere once... in a far, and free thinking, and fine fabulous Land, somebody... had wondered? HOW could I introduce "impassable" mountain tiles in Korea? :confused: Well, why not use those new "Quatara depression" tiles for Egypt which prevent movement... and use "paint" or some other sly artisan device to create a new terrain icon, which could then be substituted for the depression tile in the Korea scenario? I intend to try that for some sort of... swaying Palm Trees - surrounding cool breeze Oasis... for my own "Pz Armee Afrika" scenario... :cool:

VERY interesting discussion concerning Canada's military prowess during WW2. Though American born and wheat-field bred, I have always supposed... rightly or wrongly, that Canada did indeed (... AND, still does) have strong and disciplined and first-rate military forces. :cool: I'm not sure WHY I have always had that sense and prejudice; perhaps it was, and is, "wishful thinking"... so that USA might count on having a strong and faithful partner all along that vast northern border? Anyway, as applied to the game at hand... all of you who wish to create a more detailed OOB for Canada can easily do so. Not only with the new Editor, where you can modify the original OOB (... adding in an HQ or AF for instance) but also with "event scripting" where you may wish to add, say, a Canadian armor unit somewhere around early 1943 or so. As for the issue of whether Canada might "switch allegiance" from UK to USA should the Axis conquer Britain, well, I'm not sure how that might be handled, so I'll defer to Hubert on that one. [... another interesting aspect now introduced: since Canada is VERY large on this new map, and IF their OOB were expanded somewhat... would the Axis player then dare to invade? Plenty of room for maneuvers up in that pristine, thickly forested North Country, and USA could even cross over and lend their military might to the defense of Canada... all in all, just ONE of the MANY new and challenging opportunities ] The Canadian Royal Navy? I would agree that they were vital and instrumental in safe-guarding the oceanic supply line to Britain; so, you might (... or who knows? Hubert may elect to do so himself) add a Cruiser group to the set-up? After all, the Cruisers will now have that ASW capability, whereas the BBs will quite likely have a very low sub-attack rating. Anyway, it will surely be great fun to see all of the variations and scenarios and modifications to the game. As someone has once mentioned, oh, at least 9,412 of these within a week or two! However, no doubt whatsoever that the game that is eventually released WILL be the "gold standard" so that those who DO NOT prefer to mess around with "tweaking" and "grokking" and blue-grass fiddling, WILL have that true tested "historically faithful" game to play.

As currently constituted (... meaning, Hubert might well exercise his prerogative, or somatic reflexes, and change things around ) You have the option of selecting seasonal or weekly turns, but not "monthly." Also, you can use that amazing! Editor to make those turns "alternate" or "simultaneous." Finally, you can "normalize" production, or not, which will cause the flow of MPPs to be the same for each turn, or adjusted per season as with SC1. Upshot? You have the option to play, say... 4-week turns, simultaneous (... so that each side plays on the same calendar date) AND you can set the production to "normalized" so that you will receive the same amount of MPPs each turn, instead of a "weather-weighted calculation." Perhaps best, this added feature will go a long way in assisting all of those who would like to make any sort of smaller scaled scenario, true? :cool:

Ah, SeaMonkey, then you have never fiddled with that tricky tri-carb linkage you might find flopping around on a 64 1/2 Pontiac GTO! LOL! O/W, yer right... wade through the thicket & morass and then! you can casually ... CYA. LOL!

Retributar: North America WILL be larger and much better detailed, and so... an invasion scheme, no matter how ill advised (... who? Would DARE try it! The lingering ghost of Paul Revere would let the minute-men know in PLENTY of time), would have many more shore tiles so you might have greater land areas for your intrepid marines to fight for! Stacks & stacks of valuable resource icons are located there! :cool: ***But... IF it is not QUITE to your liking, THEN... you CAN use that fantastic Editor and make it PRECISELY the size and shape that you want! :cool: Well, I have seen the next great thing, and I only have one word for the Editor that Hubert is very generously providing for all of us old & new WW2 Grand Strategy players... Breath-taking!! (... is that two words? Even with the dash inserted? :confused: )

1st Concern: This, as pzgndr has already mentioned, WILL be modified so that you will NOT be able to develop "killer units" that can hardly be challenged. :eek: Perhaps, through judicious use of your time and MPP materiel, you CAN patiently develop "elite units" as Bill has suggested, BUT you will not have undue advantage due to that aggregate experience. IOW, those powerfully honed GErman units will have the capability to inflict massive mayhem, due to larger formation, but they also will be liable to some effective counter attacks. 2nd Concern... Hubert has already clearly and deliberately stated that he wants the tank to become more of a deciding factor... hence, the new - name of the game... SC2-Blitzkrieg! There are VERY many more new features and options. So many (... though, largely unobtrusive, so that KISS remains a very popular reflex choice!) in fact, that there will be an IMMENSE number of ways to play this game! No longer can any one Player "fixate" on a particular scheme or strategy or style... rather, it will truly be a test of "wide-angle" visions and carefully "applied ferocity." :cool:

Well, I am not a "mechanic," other than fine-tuning and razzle-wrenching all those 60s hot-rods I used to own , but here youse go anyways: Not true. The map IS... VERY much larger. MUCH more space down in the desert sands of North Afrika, so that The Desert Fox can try for shimmering oasis of Alexandria WITHOUT having to amphib-invade the far shore (... though that Quatarra Depression WILL cause you to focus and fine-tune yer attack!) MUCH more space in the Atlantic Ocean, so that U-boots CAN indeed parry & thrust and strike and dive! And, be depth-charged by Cruiser groups in the vicinity! MUCH more space in Russia, so that Moscow is more centrally situated... a long, LONG way to go before you can even see the peaks of the Urals. MUCH more space in Finland, so that you CAN cross over into Sweden by land. So, if playing UK, you CAN plan that commando sortie into Northern ports like Trondheim! Etc. Vroom! Vroom! You gots... PLENTY of free-wheeling room! :cool:

SM, I will act as though I got Fort Benning jump training, as Bill once did, and stick my unscuffed boots in here... So far as we know, Hubert has mentioned the possibility of having "cut-off" or "trapped" units supplied by an Air Fleet. And, enemy air could very well disrupt that attempt. Also (... and, since I too have had some trouble determining supply levels for units, this next feature is an added visual-aid for those equally "supply-challenged" as I am ), "SHIFT-S" would reveal supply levels for all friendly tiles. :cool: And, last but not least... the supply level of all units will be shown on the lower basic screen interface, so that you will never have ANY doubt about what the supply level presently is (... nor, the current "morale level") for your units. Now, given that these game features CAN change somewhat over time, I am sure that Hubert can correct me if I am mis-stating his case.

How else to keep the Dickensian street urchins in hemp seeds & feed? How else to keep the perfumed Lords and Ladies in waiting... in hoards of gruel & grail? Yes, these detailed convoy routes are being considered, for the simple reason that Britain, like a Tennessee Williams' Belle Reve grieving, relied most strenuously on "kindnesses of strangers" in order to survive. As pzgndr has suggested, the ideal idea is to faithfully replicate the X-treme difficulties UK had in remaining afloat in those critical years, 1940-43, WITHOUT overly complicating or meticulating the game. True enough that the umbilical cords from the distant dominions of Empire had to stretch a very long ways. Sure. Safe to say, a happy medium will be realized, so that we might have a challenging and exciting Battle of the Atlantic... north, central and south.

My sentiments... quite exactly. EVEN IF I do NOT see some of my very favorite aspects of WW2 included... in the way that I would personally prefer, well, I remain in agreement... this WILL indeed be an awesome game. As I have mentioned before, the folks who post on the SC boards ARE, simply... the most knowledgable and impassioned "gamers" that I have EVER encountered. Now, IMHO, Hubert is one of those... one of us, as well. He is a faithful "gamer" and more than ANY designer I have ever known, or known about ... CARES about making and presenting a GREAT and original game. Rest assured that ALL of the topics presented and discussed in this forum... are care-fully considered; you all have just as much chance as I do in "influencing" the eventual game. KEEP ON! Suggesting and speculating! I surely intend to. :cool: In my case, and no matter that I have played EVERY single WW2 GS game EVER made, board or computer (... this truly IS my main avocation and interest) I really, REALLY like... North Afrikan desert warfare and "the naval game," whether it be U-boots prowling along the moon-doomed convoy lanes, or Mediterranean war-ship skirmishes. ANd EACH of you has some certain area that intrigues and mystifies and "charms"... you. Each of those special areas of interest is EQUALLY as important as... ANY of mine. For instance, this area of OOB/Manpower IS important, and WILL be care-fully "modeled," I assure you. I do NOT mean to say that it is merely "incidental" to fun and historical game play. Keep in mind that this is an ongoing "process" and it is hardly over. MANY aspects yet to be harmonized and actualized and finalized... if you recall, Hubert did what all great game designers do... "improved" SC1 AFTER receiving additional input following the initial release of SC the Original ... no reason to believe it won't happen again, with SC2-Blitzkrieg! as well. :cool:

Very interesting discussion, but as Shaka has reminded, this is surely... a game designer's decision. Many myriad ways to go about insuring that the OOBs and "manpower" for each Nation is accurate enough to provide a VERY fun and VERY exciting and VERY challenging game. I would defy ANYONE to show me... that ANY WW2 GS game currently on the market, no matter how old or new, PERFECTLY replicates "manpower." This is ALWAYS an abstraction... which ideally fits into ALL of the many, many other "abstracted" features and dynamics. Taken altogether, they will fairly faithfully re-create a WW2 GS game. To answer your questions (... and a few others besides): 1) You can edit HOW MANY units each Country, to include the Minors, can build. 2) You can edit HOW MUCH each of those units will cost, for ALL countries on the map. 3) You can edit HOW LONG it takes to produce each type of unit (... also to include Minors' units) 4) You can edit COMBAT target values for every unit... belonging to all of the WW2 countries. AND, ***You CAN EDIT the percentage cost for EXCEEDING the limits YOU! Have already set (... presuming you do not accord with the Designer's WELL RESEARCHED and WELL CONSIDERED parameters). This percentage COST for building MORE units than have been allowed, can vary from 10% to 100%... in 10% increments. So. You are strategic commander for Britain; you face very serious "manpower" shortages in 1944, just as it happened in real life. Let's assume you are at the limit for... say, Air Fleets (... YOU have set this limit... at 5). If YOU have set the additional COST for EXCEEDING any unit, to include the AFs, at... say, 30%, Then you CAN build that 6th AF, BUT it will cost you the "going rate" PLUS 30% [... BTW, this over-build percentage can be DIFFERENT for each and every country, major or minor] Now, the "going rate" can be nearly any number, depending on how you want to build that 6th AF. Your research may have achieved L3 Jets, and L2 Long Range, but you can elect to build at ANY level... say, L1 Jets and L0 LR... Plus 30 % for the "over-build" penalty. Example: (... and this obviously also depends on what "production tech" level you have achieved) The L-1 Jets and L-0 L/R AF would cost you, let's say, 460 MPPs... now, with the 30% penalty (...for ALL of Britain's added units) it would cost you 460 + 138 MPPs, or... 598 MPPs. This abstraction clearly reflects the difficulty you now have in summoning sufficient pilots (it is... another DEMAND on "manpower," just as with exceeding the limits on Infantry or Armor or when christening a bristling new Cruiser). Now, I ask any long-time gamer, as I am (... over 40 years and counting)... HOW CAN YOU NOT? establish your VERY OWN... OOBs and "manpower?" Thorough and simple answer: you can. :cool: (... the collateral issue of "Oil requirements" is already accounted for in other ways; no need to confuse basic OOB/manpower with that peripheral and arbitrary "enhancement") [ July 24, 2004, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

John is no feckle fool. John D the 2nd in line, has been around SC for a very long time. John will indeed play me, maybe, should he possess sufficient elan, or any other incautious challenger out there, and, fairly soon. Why? Because... even he has underestimated the potential for... nasty (... or, gleely giddy, as the case may be ) surprises. There is simply NOT going to be ANY way for SC2 Game Players to remotely "master" this new edition. Not even rack 'em up rambo. Not even the infamous Foe, terif the terrible. No way Alley Cats. Not a freaking chance. There are simply too too many variables. EACH game is going to be... a novel encounter. I mean that quite literally. You could write a whole NOVEL about each game. Get ready! :cool: All you young-guns and old slingers alike! YOU! If nothing else, you shall indeed be... surprised. :cool:

Very well stated. Of course, ALL of EVERY single historical incident that EVER happened, is... coincidence. There is simply NO SUCH THING as... deliberate cause and effect. That is an arrogant human conceit, and applied, as per political or social inclination... AFTER the FACT. But, you are quite right to suggest that we might LEARN from "history." Ever better to stare "the brute" directly in the face. Even, and especially, the one we each can almost see in our mirror. Once that bemused and surly Brute is acknowledged, and confronted, then there surely WILL be fewer back-brain entanglements. The Nazis existed simply because "the good German society" allowed them to. Same way the thieves and thugs are on the rampant rampage, just now. Unless we each... INDIVIDUALLY admit to "the shadow" in our own nature, then there will NEVER be any collective enlightenment. Merely... a very, very few wandering souls, reminding all and each that it IS possible to reach a new and more advanced state of "being." Usually, however, we like - no! We compete! to throw such "outcasts" into the deepest well, or, as now, accuse them of being unpatriotic or hardly in accord with the prevailing tendency to "get it all while the gettings good." Best by far... each can appreciate and fully realize that they THEMSELVES are... an animal. A beautiful beastly animal with... unlimited POSSIBILITY.

Ah, LOL! And so have I. However, I would not favor any cumbersome way-point system in this large scale game. Seems to me the Game Player has many choices and challenges, not least of which is... taking sufficient time, even IF under relentless pressure from that Most Demanding Foe, to calmly, and thoroughly check ALL of the forces at his command. Some opponents are beserkers, and INSIST upon responses... right now! And wily you? You! can maintain what Hemingway called... "grace under pressure" and keep your head down and GI tin-hat firmly in place. IF you have to check, and re-check... well, that is fine exercise, so that ALL other aspects of your own life will remain in an omnipresent yin-yan accordance... with ever co-evolving Nature. :cool: