Vanir Ausf B

I'm confused here. They're abstracted? Does that mean that any halftrack with a mortar near it turns into a mortar halftrack? Are they abstracted as the M4A1 or the M21? Do they work for both 60mm and 81mm mortars?

Something we can all agree on then: it's not my fault.

According to the number of view this thread has, there are at least 12 other people as dumb as me. The mortar halftracks are in the game, right? Somewhere? EDIT: Ok, I'm editing the thread title since it may not be as dumb a question as I thought.

If you're struggling with your tactics you're probably doing one or both of 2 things wrong: 1) Being impatient and trying to do things too fast 2) Not paying close enough attention to keeping your guys in C2.

I want to try using the US M4A1 and M21 mortar halftracks, but I'm running into a small problem: I can't buy any because I can't find them in the QB purchase menu. I''ve looked in every formation -- I think -- and at the individual vehicles for every force type. I see the regular halftracks listed.

As JonS will tell you, we Americans are a little vague on the details of the Conventions

Yeah, although the UI labels soldiers giving buddy aid as a "medic" I don't think they are the kind that wear Red Crosses. They're just soldiers helping a fallen comrade. Or looting his corpse, as the case may be.

I would ask anyone I played against to agree to no PP arty, regardless if it's an ME or something else.

Thanks for jiggling Charles's jar for us, Steve.

IIRC the UI overhaul is planned for the Bulge game.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1261629&postcount=25

Tried it against a wooden bunker. Again, the heavy rounds were fired last. It appears the only way to access the 10 H56 rounds is to shoot off the other 100 rounds in the battery first.

No, I fired them off into an open field. I'll set up a test against a bunker and report back.

Is there any way to control when these 10 rounds are fired? It appears they are always the last 10 to be used.

Tanks that are given a covered arc will obey that covered arc to the point of ignoring other tanks shooting at them. I rely on this fact to conduct the tests we did showing the Tiger's armor is screwed up. Just thought I'd throw that out there

This was my working theory as well, and my primary motivation for repeating the test on the Panther. The Panther should, AFAIK, have the same weak points near the center of the hull/center of mass as the Tiger. Certainly it has a hull MG mount. It also has a drivers slit, although it can be covered on both vehicles. In addition it has the mantlet shot trap. But the fact that there is such a huge discrepancy in results -- 1/3 of all hits on weak points vs. 0 -- suggests the center of mass theory doesn't explain what we are seeing.

That's some awesome info, Chad. Thanks for testing that. It looks to me like there is a bug with WP as well as normal smoke. No way should WP be injuring guys 125m away. It almost looks like smoke is getting HE blast values.

I ran a new test I was curious whether this was an issue unique to the Tiger or if other tanks had similar weak point modeling. So I swapped out the Tiger for a Panther D. Everything else is the same (straight on vs. Sherman 75 at 500m). I was expecting results similar to the Tiger, if not worse. After all, in addition to a driver's slit and hull MG mount the Panther also has a shot trap under the mantlet. Results: 203 hits 0 penetrations No partials, no spalling. There was some damage, of course: radio, optics and main gun were usually knocked out. But in every case I ran the Sherman dry of AP and the Panther crew was sitting tight in the tank, slightly nervous but otherwise unscathed. I really have no idea what's going on.

The one full penetration with the 75mm gun was after several hits, so yeah, that is a factor but not a very large one. Most of the first hits on the UFH caused spalling or partially penetrated. When I ran that test I was mostly testing hit location.

The 60mm glacis plate is nearly horizontal. I don't know how to do the calculations, but I would guess it's protective value against something shooting straight at the Tiger is greater than the 100mm plate above it that houses the hull MG and driver's vision slit.

I decided to remake the OP's test for myself. After some testing it appears that at a 45° angle to the M10 the Tiger's lower side hull -- which is only 60mm thick -- resists better (most hits penetrate but some do not) than the "Upper Front Hull", whatever that is. That led me to suspect that the UFH is in fact some weak point. So, I reran the test with the M10 replaced with a 75mm armed Sherman and the Tiger facing directly at the Sherman. Range was 500m. On paper the Tiger should be nearly invulnerable frontally to the 75mm other than weak points. The purpose of this test was mainly to determine how often the Upper Front Hull weak point gets hit. 102 total hits 35 Upper Front Hull hits (34%) 17 partial penetrations 13 non-penetrations w/spalling 4 no damage 1 full penetration So on average it appears we can expect about 1/3 of all hits on the Tiger front to be on the UFH weak point. The only weak points on the front of the Tiger that I know of are the driver slit and the hull MG. To my non-groggy mind, 1/3 of frontal hits striking those two small areas seems... excessive. I'm curious what the experts think.

And the Tiger I side hull was only 80mm at 0°, yet in my testing it bounced every round that hit it. That makes no sense.

Hard to say. The hit animations apparently cannot be trusted in WeGo mode. I never saw "glacis plate" in any of the hit text descriptions. What I did see was "Superstructure Front Hull" hits -- which never penetrated -- and "Upper Front Hull" hits, which always penetrated. One of these may well be referring to the 60mm plate, but I don't see how the shell would be penetrating there. That plate is only 10° off of horizontal so it seems unlikely to be penetrated directly unless the firer was at a higher elevation. A deflection off the drivers plate downward could happen, but that would also seem to require an elevation difference since the driver's plate is sloped back from the glacis somewhat.

If by "the same people" you mean Bastables. Everyone else in that thread is long dead.

In any case, there does appear to be something else amiss here. If the shot is ricocheting down into the top of the hull it should say "Top Front Hull" penetration. Even then, that would suggest the Tiger has a shot trap similar to the early Panthers, which it was never noted to have historically. The other explanation is that the penetrations are going through the driver's vision slit or the hull MG mount, but the frequency with which the penetrations happen suggest otherwise. Those 2 weak points combined do not take up more than 10% of the area of the upper front hull plate. The other possibility is a bug.