dieseltaylor

Given we are having to suspend real-life the game has to be enjoyable AND feel right. Now of course not every ones definition of enjoyable and feel right are going to coincide however a designer may reach a place where the majority of buyers are happy. Now it is just possible : ) or in fact likely that some of the audience might need to be persuaded that what they have seen on TV or at the movies is not real warfare. We also have the fact that the records of what happened in WW2 can disagree, and given the number of instances anything that could conceivably happen probably did - twice. So good game design has to be an art. And an art of the possible given the very real limitations of computers and players having real lives. And yes I think the armour is bust - probably too much CMSF left in the code As for comparing hits from one CM WW2 to another I rather thought the underlying statistics would be the same.

And I bought three - same question.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/16/foreclosure-fraud-audit-false-claims-act_n_862686.html I do hope so. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/17/business/17bank.html?_r=1&hp

Tanks firing at a squitty little Tiger at a flank at 500 yards. http://www.lonesentry.com/tigerflorence/index.html

It s all here Mr Byte http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=96518 Armour is too accurate thread

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=224175 !1? where is that manual. And what was the target?? http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/armour/28481-royal-armoured-corps-introduction.html http://www.historykb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/world-war-ii/3039/Tiger-the-most-overrated-tank-in-WW2 However that does sound very close range, head-on and driving on road. So pretty much optimal.

I agree with your analysis c3k. Surely there is an added wrinkle in that if I were firing smoke then I am not particularly fussed about "hitting". However accurate fire has to be from the halt - and that includes rocking on the tracks. So it seems to me to be very large percentage hits to accuracy when firing at area targets but on the move. Going for specific targets needs a halt or incredibly short range and head on at lowish speed - with miss possibilities. The idea of not stopping to shoot a Tiger [CMBB anone] can hopefully be tweaked to account for never being face on, or turret face on, before deciding to stop or go. Wiht of course a random factor : )

Firing on the move and hitting! Such a well-known WW2 happening. Not.

siffo - the article you link to does not advise what the target is that the 100% hits are achieved against - I assume a stationary tank profile. This is then extrapolated to the 2nd round hit figure of 100% allowing for combat conditions. This seems generous. So I would view the percentages as accurate on the firing range but not translating to this type of battlefield where there is a lot of ground variation and clutter. I am sure there are other percentages that can be found.

I am glad the extra intel [Mord] is due tio be removed. However in a way I am disappointed it ever made it into the game at high FoW levels. And good that sound intel is in.

Excellent stuff.

Rune - Why have you chosen 1%? You say that is hypothetically because of what BF sees - which rather snookers the rest of your argument. We know that the MP market is more than 1% of 30000 - that is 300. Easily 300+ players have been through WeBoB in the last seven years. And then add the other on-line clubs, and the people who do not use on-line clubs because they play with friends and I think it is a substantially bigger figure than you extrapolate. In a sense it does not matter hugely as people here are buying it and however it is used is fine. However the good vibe argument I advanced - clubs with multi-players generate traffic and knowledge more than solo players. PS. I bet you evens money Edison said he was selling to single buyers : )

Sivodsi - Obviously knowing how many are sold is a big help. I can only go by the number of people in clubs as a starter. Obviously the main English speaking clubs are known to me and I know there are Spanish speaking and German/Polish clubs, and I believe French. BF possibly have done some research on clubs and club membership. But as you correctly observed a sale is a sale, so possibly they never have the need to research. As I mentioned three of my friends also have the CM*1 series but they play almost exclusively MP and never go online to play and never follow the Forums. That they will be buying CMBN will be because of the MP aspect - and also because I told them it is out. Before I joined a club I played several dozens of games with my brother and my friends who never frequented the Opponent Finder - which to my mind is perhaps BF's imperfect gage on multi-player numbers. Would we be playing CM WW2 series at all if it were purely solo play. No. The AI is too stupid once you get to know its triggers. Judging by the number of scenarios created for human play as opposed to AI only one might just have a suspicion that is where the motivation for keeping CM*1 alive comes from. AFAIR WeBoB has 14000 games recorded since June 2004 and that is actually a tad light as some types of game were excluded. Now how long will a game last if it does not have a fan club? I can well believe though that CMSF was played primarily solo : )

What gets me is the continual assertion that solo players are the main market. I really cannot understand how BF know how the sold copies are used. It might seem that I have as much knowledge as they have as to the playing community - and that is an incomplete picture. Now whether BF see the use of the Opponents Forum as the marker of number of MP and that is it I have no idea. Me and my friends all bought copies but of the four local to me I am the only one who posts. They play rarely but never solo. In WeBoB there are around 150 members currently but when we have our scenario of the month against the AI only perhaps 10 players will have a go. So if BF can kindly provide a methodology which seems to back up the solo player assertion I would be grateful - until then it is an unproven assertion. Other than that I have no complaints on how they choose to run their business. : ) Incidentally I have always believed that the long term attractiveness of the game is a function of the enthusiasts who provide a buzz that to others indicate its a good purchase. In that respect multiplayer with lots of clubs probably generates more good vibes than a equal number or more of solo players. The BF Opponent Finder has actually been like a graveyard for months. Possibly having permanent sticky links to clubs that offer opponents in all the relevant BF games may help casual browsers realise their is a vibrant community for the games they might be fancying.

Had me in stitches - funniest thing I have read this morning. Then I realised it is probably not an elaborate joke! BTW playing WeGo I am finding that the tempo of the battle seems far more realistic in terms of my time to what happens on the battlefield. In that I am pausing men and assessing the next step more often than in CMAK. If this were CMAK it would be a 20 turn battle.

Using the in-game PDF manual might make life easier. Yes the L button would have been nice. I am using the target button myself.

http://www.atlantikwall.org.uk/index.htm interesting for grogs with some good modern map extracts

: ) ........................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f2byCym77g&feature=related German Normandy newsreel propaganda. One I have not seen linked to before.

http://www.youtube.com/user/fantasticplanettvfr#p/search/1/_OVTodazWeA http://www.youtube.com/user/fantasticplanettvfr#p/search/0/Zt9dBSi2iXM I thought an interesting resource, The beginning of the second one - for St.Lo - has a fine view of the field density. And this is 60 years alter with more farm mechanisation. The towns etc I suspect are many times larger than 1945 somewhere over four times larger I guess as a minimum. The other interesting thing is it provides you with the height you are viewing from and it is interesting to consider it as a flying height and what you can see if travelling very slowly - admittedly with poor resolution to compensate for speed. There are 14 videos for Lower Normandy [basse-Normandie]

I look forward to the funny voice mods with inappropriate scripts to swop in when things get a bit boring

I take it you are conceding on the point then as you do not argue why the CC lines would not be better.

MikeyD This is probably an example of the worst you might find - which I thought ought to be compared to MikeyD' example of the lesser bocage hedge. So when people talk about Cuilin plows busting the bocage just bear in mind that it is perhaps an overstatment or possibly a convenient piece of propaganda and that the real benefits came from improved tactics and infantry armour co-operation. A training issue? One CO saying there were 34 hedges to bust in a 1.5mile advance and I suspect a mix of heights depths and widths would be found.

Excerpt from the linky Interesting. You wonder what the US price is.

Engineers not that fast then? Quicker if using a tank also, and the articles I have seen rarely mention whether it is serious bocage or the smaller variety. My guess is that logically you go for the smaller variety. A 6ft plus thick bank with tree and bush roots plus a ditch is not an attractive choice. Incidentally when talking of knocking out delicate optics and radios with shock from shell hits one might consider ramming banks of earth at speed and possibly coming to a complete halt to be a fairly chancy use of a tank. And not too comfortable for the crew.