Doodlebug

Hi. There did exist a K18, the K indicating Kanone. Not actually an ATG but I daresay pressed into use if the need arose. It was quite a long barrelled gun (L/52) and would probably do the job quite effectively but as it only had a limited production run which ceased in '43 probably just too uncommon to include in the game especially as I believe them to have been Corps level weapons and how often do Corps artillery batteries end up firing direct at tanks?

Honestly, I don't think it will make a difference. Some of said people don't appear to listen no matter what And when an "opinion" is expressed that is reflecting upon realism, is shot down using said standard, is presented again (unaltered), is shot down again using realism as a standard, is presented again (with or without claims of realism), is shot down again, etc... one has to wonder where the line between "opinion" and "whining" is. This topic has been covered SO many times, and there obviously is NO point bringing it up again. We are not going to hobble CMBB's realism to please a tiny minority of customers. So until someone can convince us that CMBB has it wrong from a realism standpoint... my "opinion" is that this particular subject should be dropped and not picked up again so we can all move on to more productive discussions. <sigh>, unfortunately I think this will come up again and again, from time to time, just like "my Tiger was killed by a Sherman!! This game is broken!!" did for CMBO. Steve</font>

I prefer the MasterGoodale thread now. Peng is just so................last week

Good analysis. I tried moving troops simultaneously on opposite flanks to split the fire. Did seem to have beneficial effects. I would hate to be in the only squad ordered to advance when everyone else is holding back I was talking about infantry actions only in my observations on the panic sneak mode problem. Drop the vehicles, AFV's and direct HE from the calculation and see if you get into trouble in an open environment. Perhaps the QB ratios of attacker v defender points simply don't allow the attacker to purchase enough fire support like they did in CMBO? I accept everything you say about hitting the ground when shot at and the possibility of losing squads broken but I can't accept the long distance panic sneak is realistic when safety is sometimes only metres away.

I couldn't make head nor tails of the readme at first but it clicked eventually and it really is straightforward. If I can do it anyone can. Try following thses steps (seemed to work for me) Have you swapped into the CMBB section? Configure button. Ruleset tab. Add button. Locate the unextracted zip file in the opened window which you can have saved anywhere on your PC. Open. You should be in business. Same procedure for mods but it's the mod tab. Good luck.

You may have a valid point there. I can only repeat that my experience is one of total frustration with regards to this problem and it seems to be for other players too. I've tried every combination that I can think of to get units to go the last few metres to the final waypoint and cover. I've tried setting up 3 squads of 4 with covered arcs and/or direct and area fire while one advanced. I've used HMG's likewise and 50mm mortars. I've used all of the above simultaneously. All of the above using veteran and crack units. I'd accept failure with worse units but it just feels wrong. I appreciate that "feels wrong" is hardy scientific but it does! Any suggestions on tips or tricks I may have overlooked? Oh I used 81mm FO smoke support too to reduce the incoming fire. I guess you've been lucky and I've unlucky so far but it sure has taken the shine off a game that in all other respects is miles ahead of CMBO.

Peng is dead. Long live the MasterGoodale. I think a thread dedicated to the unabashedly (or is that manically?) enthusiastic is long overdue. Keep those comments flowing MG. I find them a breath of fresh air. Haven't laughed so much in quite a while.

The 20mm German KwK30 and KwK38 were derivatives of the Flak30 and Flak38 AA guns. They had auto fire capacilities so bursts are not out of the question. With regards to the 20mm on the T60 this link http://www.battlefield.ru/armaments/tnsh.html indicates burst firing as possible. I think the sound you hear represents precisely what's going on. No generic sound effects were harmed in the production of this game

If I understand this correctly use the unextracted downloaded zip file. Gordon is that correct?

So if I've understood your post correctly you use crack troops and find they do quite well? Or failing that you throw a mass of regulars at the problem? I suspect you missed the point of the comments from those who have criticised the infantry behaviour under fire. The "panic sneak mode" would be acceptable if the choice of destination was more sensible. The patch will address this issue, I believe, and the fact that BTS, who are noteworthy in their efforts to remain scrupulously accurate, are prepared to modify the behaviour of the AI routine must indicate that there is a modicum of validity in the observations and posts on the board. I am absolutely certain that they would not be swayed one iota by unfounded or unjustifiable complaints and whining. Just my opinion you understand.

Been there done that. Had exactly the same problem. Guess I'm not so savvy myself. Bottom left hand corner of the screen click on configure button. Click the ruleset tab and add button. Use the subsequent window to locate the zip in your file structure(can be saved anywhere) and select the required one and open, That seems to do the job. If I've got that wrong perhaps someone will correct me but that seems to work for me. (Edited for spelling and content) [ November 18, 2002, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: Doodlebug ]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Which bit of ground are you walking on at this time so I might worship it later?

If I'd known it was there I'd have spent the day installing it and enjoying the visual feast instead of fretting over the behaviour of my infantry under fire. What a fool I've been!!! Oh and before I forget. A big and hearty thank you to all involved in this project. I can only imagine what juicy morsels await us in the future.

Good observations. I agree with your comments. I fear the bizzarre behaviour of my men under fire may well have coloured my perceptions with regards to fire effects rather more than is warranted.

Perhaps a (P)ositive or (N)egative added in the title by the poster might avoid you upsetting your digestion. In fact thinking about it you could extend the convention and include (Q)uestion, (T)echnical and (MG) for feverishly enthusiastic. No offence, Master Goodale

Hi there, you little rascal. How are you? Let me recall who won that one. YOU !! D'oh. But it was exciting to watch and we must play again soon. I'm very much hoping that the AI in the patch is improved at recognising the relative value of cover and is better able to pick the best(safest?) option. I do not know whether the routine takes account of time under fire as a result of it's choices (Anyone?) maybe it should if it does not already do so. There must be a case for running 10 m and hiding behind a wall or hedge or building rather than retracing the previous 100m back to the start line. The "collapse forward" is a recognised response to fire and one that I think we would all accept if the patch can deliver it. Then again perhaps we are all expecting too much of the AI and such subtle and sophisticated choices are beyond it. If one thing, and one only, could be altered by the patch then it would be the "panic sneak" response to firing and the annoying (and tiring) 100m crawl to the rear that ensues.

One can only hope that it's been thought of. By the end of the War German quality values are all over the shop. Everything from extremely tough old hands and highly qualified instructors to raw recruits. Perhaps the margin of variability should be even larger than 10% for them by that point?

What makes you so sure this isn't happening now?</font>

I've just set up a QB, pretty open terrain, AI Soviet infantry defence, low quality 1941. The AI also has some wire, trenches and a couple of MG bunkers and one green infantry company. I picked high quality Germans as attackers, an infantry company, 3 HMG's for suppressive fire and a mortar FO primarily for smoke support. It didn't go terribly well. To be honest I've replayed it from varying points three times now with almost identical results and have made a few observations based on the experience. 1. I was frankly amazed at the behaviour of my squads when they came under fire. An example would be having advanced under fire, for perhaps 100m , to then begin to sneak back when within 10 m of the empty building for which they had plotted seemed a little bizzarre. I think, IIRC, that the recognition of cover is going to be improved in the upcoming patch. 2. Another regular occurrence seems to be that fire triggers an "auto panic sneak mode". The problem with that is that they take forever to clear the danger zone which caused the crisis in the first place and by the time they do get clear they are tired out.The icing on the cake of course is that the panic prevents any sort of rational intervention in the situation. You just have to watch as the quirky cover routine kicks in. I believe that the tactic of the time was to keep going and clear the fire zone as quickly as possible. Once troops went to ground and sought cover it was tough to get them going again. It did occur to me that an advancing squad under fire might react in a similar general pattern. As the fire becomes more severe or casualties mount they would endeavour to continue to obey orders and to advance, dropping to a sneak at some point and then becoming pinned down stationary. The threshold at which these steps kick in would vary according to the seriousness of the threat, the quality of the troops and the quality of their officers( in other words command bonuses).Broken or routed troops have manifestly failed in the face of danger and will care little for orders or objectives or anything except their personal safety. There exists the phenomena of the "collapse forward". Broken troops can actually rout forward into cover. I am hoping that improved cover recognition may premit this situation to be moddelled. Between the two extremes of OK and not OK(broken or routed) lies the grey area of "panic". Troops at that stage will be undecided as to which of the two options they should follow. A continuation of danger might well push them over the edge whereas a lessening may see them continue according to orders. To that end would it not be more logical to see panicked troops remain stationary until the choice is decided for them? An officer moving forward and adding command bonuses may rally them or additional fire and casualties break them and send them moving for cover. 2. Lastly it seemed very apparent that as soon as squads broke cover and started to advance they were targetted amazingly quickly. The speed with which they attracted yellow targetting lines was frightening and extraordinary. It did occur that in the same way that troops have a command delay that they should also have an accquisition delay. That delay should depend on their quality and the amount of ground they are expected to watch over with a covered arc. The greater the arc the greater the delay. I suspect that if such a thing were to be introduced the it would permit fast thinking veterans the opportunity to break cover, dash forward and get down again before a poor quality defender drew an accurate bead. The consequences of misjudgement in such a situation would naturally be severe and potentially terminal. As you can tell from the title of this piece I'm seriously considering switching off and waiting for the patch to be released in the hope that some of the more annoying aspects are addressed.

It's got to be a combination of the reworked MG's and trenches. Just watched a mishandled AI veteran infantry attack pile up on a couple of green MG bunkers and a green platoon in a trench. What a difference to CMBO. An awesome improvement.

Good point. Will someone please mod the mod operating system

First to drool. Outstanding. Can't wait. Must have.

Superb work. If I had a hat I'd doff it. As it happens I haven't so I'll raise my toupee instead.

That's it. The final modding horizon. Smell! [ November 06, 2002, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Doodlebug ]