M. Bates

And the weird thing is - the *new* system is not realistic (that word again). Shockwaves are a big big issue, effecting HE, artillery and building destruction. Why could BTS not find an alternative system? At the moment, when a shell hits the turf, it looks like a mole is slinging a few handfuls of mud. It's possible to lose half a squad of men to HE, yet the ground around them is HE-Resistent! When CMBO was originally developed, BTS obviously included shockwaves for a reason. They are there for a purpose. Loads of CMBO reviews commentated on how good shockwaves were as an effect - also aiding gameplay. Okay - maybe shockwaves are cheesy and should not be used on buildings - fair enough - but what about a better graphical expression -instead of removing any expression altogether? Totally agree. In CMBO, tankers are easily identified. In CMBB, I am looking for the back end of a helmet or some minor uniform difference. CMBBs portraits serve the additional purpose of telling us if the unit is a C/O or not. But that fact is available, barely 2 inces away to the right, on the very same screen!!!! Yet again, another example of style over content/gameplay in the CMBB demo. Again, it *can* be modded (I hope). I agree. CMBB has more features, and, yes, will be a bit more complex than CMBO. However, the CMBO demo is appreciably more clean looking and accessible than the CMBB demo. How the hell newbie players will be able to follow the battle I do not know. I guess they'll be using low-slung camera angles and rewinding/pausing the movie playback *just* to struggle to see where a tank's shell landed.

The difference between the CB and Myth 2 camera system is this: In Myth 2 there was a bit of graduation between panning and rotating. With CMBB, if you place the cursor in slightly the wrong place, the screen will behave completely different to what you want. Then you have to correct the camera position, and try to concentrate on the game again... It is possible to get by using the shift key. The whole beauty of CMBO system is that you use the arrows to get a unit, then rotate around the unit using the mouse, checking all the view points, rotating more or less to check the surrounding area. At the very least this should be switchable. That way, people who like the new system are happy, and people who prefer the old (IMHO more elegant) system are happy also.

CMBO: explosions are visible. CMBB: tanks are firing with pea shooters. We get an animated effect if a gun is knocked out, but that's it. If realism is such a concern than hardcode the damn trees into the map. I bet everyone would then say "I love it! It looks crap, but I'll get used to it!"

re Camera Movement, In CMBO, putting the mouse to the side of the screen either rotated the screen (a) a little or ( a little more again. CMBB has a system whereby the screen moves to the side, and then placing the mouse pointer slightly higher abruptly rotates the screen. In itself this is bad enough, but in addition clicking the direction arrows produces a bigger "jump" sideways than before. So for myself, there is no satisfactory method to scroll sideways along my frontlines.

Thanks, I don't want to be negative, I just hope that a few other CMBO players feel the same way. The gripes over the information panels/screens are very much subjective, but features like shockwaves, camera control, etc, are the key to enjoying CMBB without feel that design designs get in the way of gameplay.

(Continued) http://snow.prohosting.com/cmbb My attempt at "modding" CMBB, the font has been changed, though it's a bit of a rough job, and the fuzzy gray background is gone, and the black background in modded CMBB could be substituted for very dark blue, very dark green, etc. Okay, whinge over now To sum up, I can live with the interface and mod the bits I don't like. But IMHO - and this is just an opinion - if major stuff like shockwaves are not at the very least an option to CMBB players - then it will be to the regret of a great number of players. (Edit: pictures are now fixed (!) ) [ September 02, 2002, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: M. Bates ]

First of all, can I make it clear that I am looking forward to CMBB and have great confidence in this ambitious game. That said, there are a number of minor and a couple of major problems: Tank projectile is now dark gray (bright in CMBO) Tracers can be modded to some extent, yet are shorter in length than in CMBO Moving the mouse cursor to the side of the screen in CMBO pleasingly rotated the screen to a greater or lesser extent. The camera system in CMBB is now an inferior version of the Myth 2 system Some unit indicators (buttoned etc) now in illogical places (see below) The ALL CAPS font used in places is very ugly compared to the CMBO original The nationality graphic on the bottom left of the screen is fine, yet betrays the rank of unidentified units (example: unknown tank version yet I know it is a command tank) The screen seems to jump more than before when using the direction arrows, though I'm not entirely sure, could just be my machine Camera system: View 3 is the equivalent of a low angle CMBO view, View 4 is a pleasant zoomed out angle, though too far away from units for regular play, View 5 is zoomed out once more, and Views 6 onwards are top-down. More choices than CMBO which is a good thing, but a blend of View 3 and 4 is needed for a proper, playable "default" view angle If camera views are too stay like this, then the unit bases need to be a bit larger in Views 4 and 5. http://snow.prohosting.com/cmbb New style tank shell. http://snow.prohosting.com/cmbb Tracers from CMBO. http://snow.prohosting.com/cmbb CMBO screen showing brighter projectile and the shockwave (missing from CMBB). http://snow.prohosting.com/cmbb Basic CMBO panel. Attacker and Defender expressed in text instead of graphics. Clean design, the only actual graphics are the flags of the opposing nations. http://snow.prohosting.com/cmbb Basic CMBB panel. Morale/Victory is a little clearer. For some reason there is a picture of blue sky and green grass (perhaps showing weather conditions). Map of E. Europe possibly included to remind player this is not the Pacific. http://snow.prohosting.com/cmbb Basic CMBO unit panel. Approximately same layout for AFVs and infantry. http://snow.prohosting.com/cmbb Basic CMBB unit panel. The green box does nothing, but is used to fill up space used by C/O special abilities. This unit is a "Veteran" (see faint green text) tho it's not stated as clearly as in CMBO. "Tiring" and "Hiding" also lack the clarity of CMBO. This unit is located in tall pines, and a graphic is added in case you forget what tall pines actually are. This unit has hand grenades and various weapons, though all of that info is replicated once again in the pop-up box (along with the exact amount of firepower). The "Atari ST" font of CMBB is quite ugly. [ September 02, 2002, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: M. Bates ]

The problem, is I need to see tank fire when playing from level 3 or 4. At the moment there is a serious problem. Even at some of the higher camera levels, the large plume of smoke is concealing the already tiny tank shell. Placing the camera against a clear blue sky in the lowest camera posiiton is not a sensible way to play CM. Tank shells need to be visible against the murky terrain from *any* camera angle (with obvious exception of tall pines blocking view).

I can see the plus points of more realism within the limits of the current game engine. What I would say if that if there are other abstractions in other parts of the game, as there are - then a concession must be made to playability. If that means that projectiles are larger than in real life, then so be it. After all, this is a simulation viewed through a 17 inch or 19 inch monitor (or worse).

CMBB's tracers are rubbish!! I hate it when a follow up game is released and parts of it are worse than the predecessor. Tracers and tank rounds are a very *minor* issue on the surface. It seems a silly thing to complain about. But when you actually try to play the game, it is really difficult to get a good idea of bullet direction. I just did a test, concentrating entirely on the tracers direction, low down camera view, and it was so tricky to pin down who is firing what. In CMBO I don't even have to think about this! Sure, in CMBO the tracers are slightly "Star Wars" - *but they do the job*!! I am also missing tank rounds. I see a big plume of smoke, then nothing, and then a tiny movement of soil where the round lands. I can't help but feel that with these new "realistic" tracers and cluttered info panels, that CMBB has gone backwards slightly from CMBO in terms of functionality/user friendliness. The "clean & bright" look of an unmodded/under-modded CMBO may have been ugly, but it cannot be denied that things were easier to pick apart on the screen. :eek: I remember the simplicity and intuitiveness of moving a Panther around in the ancient CMBO demo (Valley of Trouble?). CMBB demo feels fiddly next to that. Hopefully it will all be better after I've installed gridded terrain and modded the interface somewhat.

I'd like the tracers to be a tad bigger as they are currently in CMBO. At the moment I am hearing gunfire, then having to click many units trying to see where the enemy LOS line is coming from. Also tank rounds are a little tricky to see, I don't know if they've been reduced in size or not.

(Going from left ot right across the screen). The Attack/Defend graphics are a good idea, as it tells you exactly which side is doing what, and the Morale & Victory percentages are the same as before. The terrain picture (green grass and blue sky) seems unnecessary. Turns and date are shown, with the new addition of time of day. Briefing button is excellent, as are ceasefire and surrender (no longer consigned to existing as key strokes). The graphic of Eastern Europe is not needed. Navigation buttons separated from the Go! button is a good thing. Unit information is spread across 5 columns of data. Personally I would axe the terrain graphic and the pictures of infantry weapons, and just have 3 columns of data. The infantry weapon graphics could easily exist in the unit pop-up menu. (Any player wanting to know the firepower of a unit will bring up the pop-up menu in any case). The icon graphics on the orders menu are improved. For clarity, I would remove the fuzzy grey background, and have a flat shade of black. Some of text is harder to read because it is CAPS and the font is not as nice as in CMBO. I'm not saying I need a magnifying glass, but it does take an extra second or half-second to read various information due to the combination of fuzzy background and capital lettered text. Another minor niggle is identifying the commanding tank of a platoon. I suggest that the red command line be slightly gold at the point where it leaves the commanding tank. The last wish is that there be a "Back" button to complement the existing "Continue" button on the briefing/force selection screens.

Sometimes it's impossible to complete a CM turn. A player in a ladder or tourny needs to spend at least ten to thirty minutes on a turn to make sure that everything is right. I often save a partially-completed turn then come back to it a day later, to finish plotting everything until I'm fully happy. A lot of these players have families etc, and they can hardly go away to the computer to play "some video game" while other stuff needs doing (cooking meals, kicking the cat etc). On the wider issue of what's happened recently, I don't exactly see how one single player can "sabotage" - as Dorosh says - an invitational tourny, if the agreed rules get changed and public pressure is applied in order to extract game files or purchases. The tournament in question should have continued with the other 2 or 3 matches, given progress/battle reports to the CM forums, then waited for the other players to catch up [ August 05, 2002, 05:26 AM: Message edited by: M. Bates ]

Looks kinda like Kwazy went, uh well, "kwazy" with some Photoshop sharpening filters. A fine job nonetheless, especially given that he's having to texture some 300+ vehicles... If they were all perfect then there wouldn't be anything for us MODers to do, would there? </font>

The anti tank gun looks very cartoonish. All the textures look like they have had some kind of edge enhancement / contrast enhancement applied in Photoshop. Maybe the models will look "proper" at a more zoomed-out viewing angle.

You really can't imagine why someone would buy CMBO right now? What if they like the Western Front better than the Eastern front? What if they have the money and want to be able to play either? It's not like the game will get any worse after CMBB is released. I'll probably play both still.</font>

Download the demo of CMBO, play it to death, enjoy the summer, then purchase CMBB. I honestly can't see the point in buying CMBO when the improved sequel is just weeks away.

Does anyone else agree that CMBB should be delayed for about 4 months, say until Christmas time? This is needed, so that vital details can be checked concerning weapon accuracy, and also the correct spelling of unit names (i.e. people commonly spelling "Hittlerr when in fact they mean "Hitler"). Two separate, democratically elected panels should be established to verify and pass judgement before CMBB is released. If the two panels (they can be called Panel A and Panel disagree over a unit/feature, then the matter is then passed to an Arbitration Committee. The Arbitration Committee can be formed from the best players of the tournament ladders. I think that all reasonable people would agree with this system. [ July 13, 2002, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: M. Bates ]

<font size="5"> Newsflash: (10-07-2002)</font> The front page of battlefront.com states that MrSpkr will receive a "special" version of CMBB, where every instance of "Waffen SS" shall be replaced by "Scottish Light Infantry". Early reports indicate that the strong-minded MrSpkr does not mind one bit, and shall celebrate by drinking a glass of Shut The Hell Up.

Bad news for UK CMBB fans: Not only does the *UK-specific* CMBB suffer German censorship, but it will also have American spellings! I can guarantee that every European CMBB player will always flinch at reading "Waffengrenadiere". It is bound to be a source of minor annoyance, especially since the other half of the world will happily see "Waffen SS". And I bet that all the mission briefings will mention those heroic "Waffengrenadiere".

Nac4's opening post seems reasonable enough to me, despite the lack of paragraph spacings. Nac4 only became a bit silly in tone after the smug and convulsive replies by Cpt Wacky, karch, etc etc. I'd question whether unfounded allegations about Nac4's posting history are especially relevant to his argument about CM's mission structure or his slightly abrasive posting style.

That map looks horrific for the attacker. The tactics I would use would be throw everything against the right. Use lots of smoke, smash through to the town and get one or two flags. Then use the surviving German AFVS to sweep towards the flags behind the town. Trouble is that 30 turns makes it all a bit tight. Once Barleyman was committed to crossing at the fords it was too late to turn back. Looking forward to the other AARs to see if the attackers fare any better.

For obvious reasons no one knows exactly how the proposed system will actually "play" so we should reserve judgement until then. However, I get the impression that players will be tempted to buy mainly regular infantry along with lots of T34s or PIVs. This will give the most "bang for the buck". I can't quite see the correlation between a "rare" unit and "expensiveness". A unit is rare or common, that is acceoted, but why introduce price anomaly. There might be better ways of penalising rare unit purchases using the existing points system that does not involve making rare units more expensive. Burger King restaurants are rarer than McDonalds, but the hamburgers cost the same. People with ginger or red hair are "rare" but having red hair does not make them special. [ May 08, 2002, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: M. Bates ]

Hehe looks like a Brit or American machine gunner with a sense of humour has been shooting these Germans in the knees!! Maybe the light green could be replaced with a slightly darker muddyish green to offset that effect. Otherwise very good.

I didn't know that there are 30 months in the year!!