Barrold

The Pentagon seems to be much more heavily damaged than I first thought. It looks like the plane penetrated into several of the concentric circles that make up that building. Heavy smoke and fire are still pouring from it. All underground parking is being closed here in Grand Rapids, MI. Emergency procedures are being implemented. Several planes from other airports have been re-routed to Kent County International airport here. Presumably these would be from Detroit and Chicago. Everything is being closed around here. Churches are being opened for prayer services though and I am sure the blood banks are open. BDH

ABC is reporting that another United plane has crashed. Not alot of details but the report seemed to originate from Seattle.

I am hearing reports that someone was barricaded in the bathroom of one of the planes that crashed. It was hijacked and this guy used a cell phone to call. Apparently the sound of an explosion was heard and the contact was lost. Unconfirmed but this was reported on a radio network. Pentagon still burning. News conference from Boston just starting. BDH

More reports of gunmen firng into the air in Lebanon and palestinians celebrating the video of the attacks. It also seems that there is still one perhaps two planes not accounted for a the moment. I have the radio, television and the internet on to gather information. Quite simply the most amazing day in my life.

I am just sick and in a state of shock and disbelief but there is nothing going on in West Michigan so I am OK. Sure hope nobody has family or friends affected by this. I have to take too many medicines right now so I don't think I can donate blood but anyone who can should do so since the need is likely to be massive. Poor people...this is terrible. BDH

I am just sick and in a state of shock and disbelief but there is nothing going on in West Michigan so I am OK. Sure hope nobody has family or friends affected by this. I have to take too many medicines right now so I don't think I can donate blood but anyone who can should do so since the need is likely to be massive. Poor people...this is terrible. BDH

It always sounds better when Steve says it, so thanks to him for popping in for the reassurance. I like the acronym of GPW and while I can think of some reasons why it might now be more appropriate I would like to see a discussion for alternatives. I think that this is definitely going to be a much larger focus in the near future so having a easy abbreviation that is agreeable would be a good thing I suppose. I have been looking up the books I have about the Russo-German War (RGW?) and the keen interest I have in this area has been amplified by the impending release of CM:BB. Not having a game or demo to bounce around and discuss only tends to add to the number of questions that are bouncing in my head as to how this or that situation will be handled in CM:BB and at this point they are moot speculation no matter how much I am itching to see them answered on the big screen. Another question I had for this group is whether the mod guys (and Kitty of course) are revving up to work on the new game?

When there is something worth letting us know, I am sure we will be informed. Could be any number of reasons but if it changes anything from what has already been released I would be we would hear about it fairly quickly. I am anxious for it too BDH

These and a billion other characteristics I am hoping to get to know when CM:BB allows up to play with them like we have in CM. Discovering the quirks and performance of all the new models will be a big kick for me. Not just T-34, but all the tanks the will become available and getting to appreciate the charms of some underappreciated vehicle like the Stuart has been for me so far. It's almost September and closer to what can be considered 4th quarter 2001. I'm going to go look for a T-34 site BDH

I am currently reading 'Citizen Soldier' in which the tactic of using WP and the effect on the defender is vividly described. It doesn't sound like it would be very pleasant to be on the receiving end. BDH

Try looking in the CMBB FAQ for the specifics since I believe the answer along with lots of other excellent information is located. I don't think there exists the mechanics for taking the pre-orders although the reason currently eludes me. You can rest assured that I will be right there to buy it when it is announced that it is available. BDH Junior member #2090? Time for some postings

In that same site I found this page http://history.vif2.ru/t44.html and it gives a lot more information about this tank. I was not familiar with it previously and found the details very interesting. In brief it states that less than 1000 were produced and it did not participate in battle due to the lack of acceptance of a new tank by the army. This strikes me as odd but I'll accept that until I find out something to the contrary. I would presume that it would not be modeled in CM:BB due to the lack of combat experience but I am just guessing. It certainly looks cool and while it was basically experimental, it was the prototype for the T-54 and later models so the efforts to produce the line definitely was not wasted. The page has lots of pictures of the tank including several of the variations of weaponry such as the 100 and 122mm guns. Boy I can't wait for CM:BB!!!!

I noticed too, but a check of the post date will show that this thread is a very ancient piece of poo, dredged up for the sake of some amusement that eludes me, but that in itself is not so unusual. BDH

Bah! I can't believe that would be an original thought but I'll give a thanks for the compliment and be gracious enough to see if I like it as a sig. Sig...hmmm rhymes with cig....wish I had one...crap I quit months ago...bah! eh..so, even though Ben is still correct, I was looking for a change anyway. Thinking about the other forums mentioned, this one does well in comparison to many others I have seen. It is one place that provides assistance and a quick response to most every issue imaginable. Even those generally inclined to toast some newbie butt will provide some positive information along with the sarcastic retort. Outside of the Peng thread even the most paint-pealingest dumb question has the distinct possibility of being answered with both patience and accuracy. Even the obnoxious 'my panthers die too soon this game sux' type of post are often handled so that the casual or new user can usually find something useful within. You have to be a special kind of knob to really cause any amount of ruckus than that here. Fortunately, for many reasons this is rare, and when these type of people become fully recognized as knobs they are dealt with adequately. The new person then has a good relatively painless way to maximize the experience of CMBO and this free resource definitely enhances the value the customer recieves.

The normal salemanship for CMBO in these threads seems to be tempered through repetition and wariness of trolls. All of the postive aspects listed in this thread are true and are based on the year or more of playing this game. They come from the large and vigorous fanbase the game and BTS has righteously earned. The essential question is whether the topic of WWII small unit combat is of interest to the prospective customer. I love this game, this forum, the modifications the artists make, and most importantly, the still fresh feeling I get from playing. New scenarios are constantly being created and this lifeblood has no sign of becoming anemic. As many have also posted, I would consider this to be a monstrously excellent and longlasting value for the purchase price. If someone has any amount of the same interest in the history that can be transferred into a computer game, I can't see how it would not be a great value to them as well. On the other hand, if my computer gaming interest did not stray from Fantasy RPG or puzzle games, and I could not care less for military history, CMBO might not have any appeal and I might feel the same way towards it as I would say "Myst". Different strokes so base the decision on your level of interest, not the dollar amount. Besides you can always make more money, but time wasted is gone forever. After becoming quite disappointed with the gaming industry in general lately, it is still refreshing to have a game fitting our niche like CMBO and a company like BTS to back it up with the great prospect of creating more in the near future. Where's the pre-order for CMBB!!!!!! I want it! I want it! I want it!!! Sorry lost control there for a moment. [ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: barrold713 ]

So youse gots yerself a lotta nice stuff der Detroit Guy. Be a shame ta loose it wit from some sorta ya-know...accident. Da way I sees it, the best protection ya can git is to just buy da freakin' game already. Dis makes it nice n' easy see and nobody gets hurt. Jes a little friendly advice der. BDH

Well I guess that is the answer to that. We must be watching too many war movies.

If doable, I kind of like this idea. The variables that might go into the delay time before the charge went off could make for some interesting scenarios and/or operations. BDH

I am definitely going to buy CMBB as I have always been an East Front nut. Previous to CMBO I shied away from West Front games because I thought the Allied units were too vanilla. I have changed my mind and it was CM that opened my eyes and expanded my mind. Personally, I would pay regular full price for an updated game that included a change in the game engine. I would likely pay for an expansion pack to bring CMBO up to CMBO features, but I would understand if the business reasons did not make sense for BTS to spend their time on it. My hopeful expectation is for them to provide my money's worth for the games I purchase and keep my interest

Steve: Thanks for all the great info. I can hardly wait to give you some money! I have been having such trouble with another program that does not deserve to have it's name mentioned in the same thread as CM. It is continually refreshing to have BTS as a good example of how to interact with the customer. Were every company like you guys. Hey! I have a question. How would a battle that takes place over several days be handled in CMBB that might be different from the way CM might do it? Maybe I should know this is just a big operation but I'm on the vicadin and flexiril so brain mushy... :eek:

BTS becoming just another corporation? All computer magazines influenced primarily by the amount of advertisments purchased? We are witnessing the result of too much belief in conspiracy theories, unfounded cynicism, and frankly the all to common dislike of successful people and companies. Instead of being congratulatory of BTS's success, it is assumed that someone else must have been screwed in order for them to get ahead. This sort of messed up thinking is way too prevalent and it should be fought wherever it raises it's ugly head. BTS has created wealth from nothing but their own talent. A great number of people have recognized the value of their product and exchanged money for it. This money has allowed them to expand, create new jobs presumably with some sort of salary, and then be able to spend their time producing CM2 instead of digging ditches to earn food and beer money. If they choose to spend some of their own money on new cars, big houses, or if Madmatt wants gold caps for his teeth and the finest imported head wax that is their own business! How is it not a good thing if Steve and Charles get as freakin' rich as Bill Gates? Since they are not coming to my house, sticking a gun in my face, and demanding money to play their game. It is the natural result of putting out a quality product that is popular. They are not out with their hands out looking for a government grant either. Everyone should be ecstatic since it means we will be able to have access to future games in the genre of our interest. And if you are not going to pay their bills if CM2 bombs...quitcherbeefin! I obviously have no problem with a magazine taking ads for products that they review because if the reviews are found to be influenced wrongly, word will get out that the games in no way match the mag's opinion. The main computer magazine I am familiar enough with to endorse is CGW and I buy it because I trust their reviews. My only complaint would be the perhaps too opimistic previews but that is a pervasive issue with both websites and magazines. I get the feeling that the people who complain the loudest have the least experience with going out in the real world and earning the money they need to eat and pay their bills. To keep this more on-topic, I am looking forward to reading the article and seeing the screenshots

Well that's the kind of perfectly craptacular news that will ruin your Sunday morning. Imagine the tragedy of a weeks worth of Peng lost forever in the ether! It will require an ethanol enhanced endurance to fortify myself for the rest of the day. Seriously, I hope things are recovered and nothing work related was involved. BDH [ 05-20-2001: Message edited by: barrold713 ]

There are lots of products that are very complex to make and yet there is nothing in comparison to the software industry (outside of flea markets) in the level of quality control that is considered adequate for distribution. The fact that BTS has done such a good job just proves my point in that it can be done correctly through a patient application of playtesting, feedback from demos, and a philosophy of concern for the customer. Narrowing my point, I will say that I am making a huge distinction between a game that runs great but may need a few tweaks for a few details and those that crash repeatedly and generally don't work properly upon release. My example for the 2nd type might be Age of Sail 2 or going back a few years, Battlecruiser 3000. Being angry for reasons of buying a shoddy product is reasonable. I think the answer to Hannibal's original assertion for the need of perfection is probably some sort of personality defect. BDH

You have the basics of a good point that would be better if the facts about the software industry worked like any other business. Consider if you bought a $45 ink pen and what your reaction might be if it either didn't write directly out of the package or was a different color than it was labled. Software seems to be a unique product that the producers seem to believe that 'close enough' is a good point to go gold and ship. Having the repeated experience of getting burned by vaporware would likely create the type of reactions described. On the other hand they could just be whiners being squeeky wheels. BDH