Barrold

Not only YES, but &%$@ YES!!!! Attackers will not rush a machinegun defended position without serious carnage and suppression. Rune made a point of saying that the game is going to reward proper tactics and punish woefully those who still think of MG's in CM:BO terms. Watching them in action was a real treat. BDH

Sorry, I didn't have the opportunity to see any vehicle mounted mortars. BDH

I don't recall those particular sounds, but that does not mean much since what we saw was in fact a incomplete game. I asked specifically about the doodads and penetrating smoke and got an ambiguous response (he is still evil after all) so if your recollection is that they have those properties so be it. I'm not being coy or anything so don't speculate beyond the guess that we'll have to see what the final version or perhaps the demo (if there is one) looks like. BDH [ July 06, 2002, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: barrold713 ]

I have to echo those sentiments and memories of my early days of wargaming. Panzerblitz in the 10th grade with friend. I have always been fascinated with many of the aspects of the GPW and watching it unfold in the brief encounter we had was a big fulfillment of my wishes in a game. It is indeed making the wait just a bit more difficult. BDH

Yes they look like factories and it's a cool effect. As far as the rubble goes, I did not see this during the scenario I saw, so I can't really comment on that with any first hand knowledge. Edit: Yeah, what he said up there. BDH [ July 06, 2002, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: barrold713 ]

OK OK I thought I had posted this here, but it was in a different thread so if you didn't read it: We had a chance to look at the factories at Rune's Sneak Peak get together and they are definitely big and unlike anything previously seen in CM:BO. It might not be a 100% translation, but the enveloping sense of enclosure reminded me of the best part of the factory fighting that happened in the 'Close Combat III' urban map. I walked into a scenario Spanish Bombs was playing and the factory setting gave a much added boost to the urban feel of the environment as the cacophony of bullets flying and explosions going off in enclosed areas almost make you duck instinctively. The LOS in and out of the factory led me to think that the action of assaulting these buildings against proper defenses is going to be a brutal task. The added functionality of the machineguns alone will tweak the tingle of anticipation and tension upon hitting the 'GO' button. The doodads give a much needed sense of these buildings having clutter and a real purpose outside of just being a big box. I am hoping there will be a good variety of doodad types inside the buildings but what I saw was very nice and a welcome addition to the gameplay. BDH I don't know exactly how these buildings were constructed so the size of each tile, I am going to pass on for the moment. Trust me though, these are big complexes and they look very nice. BDH

The LOS through doodad is one thing I forgot to check...sorry. A more enlightened source will need to provide that. I would think that the IL-2 would be included since it was pretty common. There were a ton of loadouts available and lots of planes to pick from. I didn't see the FO for air support, but the knack for dropping a surprise on your own troops is still a very real prospect from what I was told. BDH

A little earlier I discussed being on the receiving end of some close air support. The planes seemed to behave in much the same way as before, but it was put out that the types and loadouts available are going to be much enhanced. Waiting to see where the bombs are going to hit retains all the charms of the first game. BDH

Karch and I were playing the same scenario from different sides and our contrasting opinions should give everyone goosebumps as to the the levels of uncertainty added by the extreme FOW. There are still targeting lines, but I don't believe that they are necessarily 100% accurate measures of spotting or if a unit is still alive. I might be wrong since I am not an official source so grant me some leeway if I tubed this answer. I think I opened up on the oncoming armor at between 500-700 meters and the game said this was a very good kill range. The game was right. The new terrain types and the incorporated doodads are simply a fantastic enhancement that make the battlefield much more of a real environment. They add depth and perspective to the tiles in a most aesthetically pleasing manner. The screenshots were good, but seeing it in the game shows why the BFC guys were so excited about this advancement. I am playing CM:BO in another window at the moment and thinking about the grass and how it currently looks even with the best mods. Remembering what the new grass looks like, I almost can't imagine why someone would want to mod it. Not that it won't be of course by someone for some reason, but this grass is a major step forward that I wanted to mention in comparison to what I was used to seeing. Another quick battle story. This anecdote was mentioned in passing by Rune earlier, but it was a cool moment that deserves more details. Fairly early into the scenario, two of the large groups of BIG SP guns rumbled towards me and several were violently opened for inspection by one of my 88s. On my right flank, behind a ridge, sat another of these can-openers hiding in some scattered trees. This area was also covered by a smaller ATG but I was still very worried when I saw an approaching SU something or other insert large number here, cresting the ridge about 60 meters away. The worry resulted from the fact that the hidden 88 was not pointed in this direction. On my turn, I targeted the looming monster with the hope that the gun would rotate fast enough to get a shot off before being blasted. I commented to Rune that I hoped their life insurance was paid up. After hitting 'GO', I was incredulous that the gun was not immediately seen and destroyed. Seconds ticked off and we clicked the 88 and hit tab to view it being blown up. The two barrels rotated towards each other in a desparate death race when suddenly a loud thunk came from the SP. It was the 75mm hitting but apparently not killing on its first shot. This quickly buttoned the crew and this little distraction was just enough time for the bigger gun to finish transversing and it roared much to my approval. The round slammed into its target and this time I was sure the vehicle was done for as the crew quickly scrambled from the wreck. An excellent moment. I would have loved to seen that one from the other side. BDH

We'll be keeping our eyes on you, Focker. Welcome to the forum. Surprizingly, you are not the first or only Focker around here. BDH

We had a chance to look at the factories at Rune's Sneak Peak get together and they are definitely big and unlike anything previously seen in CM:BO. It might not be a 100% translation, but the enveloping sense of enclosure reminded me of the best part of the factory fighting that happened in the 'Close Combat III' urban map. I walked into a scenario Spanish Bombs was playing and the factory setting gave a much added boost to the urban feel of the environment as the cacophony of bullets flying and explosions going off in enclosed areas almost make you duck instinctively. The LOS in and out of the factory led me to think that the action of assaulting these buildings against proper defenses is going to be a brutal task. The added functionality of the machineguns alone will tweak the tingle of anticipation and tension upon hitting the 'GO' button. The doodads give a much needed sense of these buildings having clutter and a real purpose outside of just being a big box. I am hoping there will be a good variety of doodad types inside the buildings but what I saw was very nice and a welcome addition to the gameplay. BDH

I am running it on a Dell Inspiron 8100 laptop with PIII 1.13Ghz, 256MB RAM, and 64MB DDR ATI Radeon Mobility 7500 video card. BDH

Not having a personal copy to microanalyze all the cool details, it is difficult to really get an exact measure of the games proclivities as they relate to the highly scrutinized behavior of CM:BO The impression I received was of a better targeting based on level of threat. Mind you, in a target rich environment (such as was the case in the scenario I played against the AI in which I seemed to have three HUGE groups of really big and impressive looking SP guns coming towards my meagre defensive line) it can be difficult to choose what to shoot at first. The extreme FOW adds to this tension because of the added time you may need to determine the effect of hits against armor. Do you assume that tank is dead and switch to the next target cresting the ridge or do you give it more time to make sure and risk missing the first shot opportunity against another threat? Part of my forces were Tigers and while the rotation issue did not make itself noticeable, I did have a "holy crap" moment with them that I can relate. As I was shoaring up a flank with the platoon of Tigers I received as reinforcements by moving them into position, I was focusing on the exploits of my heroic 88 as it was finally pinned by the weight of incoming shells. Watching the turn onfold, I heard the ominous hum of an airplane engine and the high pitched scream of descending bombs. Rune and I looked around the battlefield and turned back the clock to see what had happened. The rewind showed the close air support streaking parallel to my lines with the intent to attack the platoon of Tigers. Holding my breath, I heard the eggs drop and was amazed to see two large explosions straddle the big tank and shock but not damage it. An excellent moment. BDH [ July 06, 2002, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: barrold713 ]

Crap, crap, crap!!! I knew I forgot to ask rune about something or else I was getting a beer when they talked about it. Either that or it is a feature that still has details up in the air. Sorry, I can't be of immediate help. I love operations too and hope this gets the same kind of treatment I saw in the rest of the game. BDH

Rune gave out the specifics of his system on page 5 I think, but it didn't have to be state of the art to run it nicely. If you are buying a new machine, I would think any standard computer purchased new would be more than capable of handling CM:BB based on rune's setup. IIRC the minimum video card was 16MB, but I am not the right source for this requirement, this is just a recollection. As for any complaining or such, I am just glad to have been able to go on a lark and see what the progress is currently at. My completely independent and non-official opinion is that we were looking at a pretty complete package. Details need to be added and such, but as the official post said, if they are letting jamokes like us look at it and play with it, it should be a good hint as to the progress. I just had fun and was glad I went. Regarding convey movement and the smoke, I am going to politely defer to the official announcements of features because I don't want to confirm or deny something that might be added or modified. I liked what I saw and I don't know how much I didn't see. BDH

Righteous bump from page 3 to go along with the SNEAK PREVIEW thread. BDH

Yes! The FOs seem to be fitted with two types of communications. Radio and by wire. Both can be moved of course, but the delay will be much greater when moving a wired FO to represent the amount of time needed to drag that stinkin' wire to the new position. Layers...its all about adding layers of detail and accuracy to an already good system. Whatever the limits of the current engine, from doing their homework, listening to the customers, and making this such an obvious labor of love, a whole new experience is wrung out in such a way that makes this a very satisfying game. BDH

Hiya SB It was nice to meet you and your family yesterday and I concur 100% with your post. Unfortunately, we did not finish that scenario, but I am of the belief that we stood a good chance of prevailing. We saved the game in order to check out the scenario exhibiting the new aspects of extreme FOW. As we saved, the Russian infantry attack was stalled as our machineguns were incrementally unleashed on the host of advancing conscripts. The limited AT resources have not yet revealed themselves as the armor had not advanced to contact. This showed me the importance of not separating these two supporting types of units. Without the infantry, I think he was going to have trouble dealing with what we would be able to throw at him. Without tank support, the machineguns and hidden infantry popping up and laying waste, the charging infantry was quick to become suppressed and turn around. Even with limited resources, a vigorous and desperate defense becomes even more of a rush than previously experienced. It was a sight to see all our guys open up on that human wave. Oh yeah! We saw the importance of staying in cover whenever possible, and why it is a good practice to go over the ground during setup phase to ensure units were set up in the best defensive postion...hull down and reverse slope if possible. The factories were massive and the mix that should be available will make for excellent urban scenarios. I just wish I had a lot more time to find out more. BDH

Covered arcs are very easy to set up and use. You can easily see the LOS of the unit and you simply click once to set one point of the arc and click again to finish the move. Regarding spotting of MGs and ATGs, there does seem to be a true difference, but as to the precise variables, I am not sure. The way they work is much more in line with the wishes of the board. It truly adds another dimension to the realism of the play. I heard many comments on how just these couple of components will eliminate much of what people consider 'gamey' tactics. The human wave was impressive as was the ability to put a stop to such nonsense. Movement remains much the same in concept, but the flexibility that has been added by way of the new commands will give players a whole new outlook on their abilities. In this manner, a huge amount of depth has been inserted into the system. Let's see...what else? Oh yes...tanks still explode occasionally and how impressive this is depends on whether they are yours or not. I did get to play the AI for most of a scenario that displayed the new extreme fog of war. Unfortunately, I don't think this is enough experience to make a thorough assessment. By the time I had to leave, it was progressing towards its objectives and the FOW made it much more difficult to accurately assess exactly how the situation was developing. Sometimes I knew exactly what happened, sometimes I thought something happened, and sometimes I had no clue what happened. As I mentioned before, this too adds another layer of depth and enhances the gameplay nicely. More as I think about the questions. BDH

I did not get to play the Russian side so my impressions are limited to being on the receiving end of soviet weaponry. Command and control extends the morale concepts familiar to infantry units to the armoured units and it profoundly alters the way these units are considered. Rune definitely emphasized the need to now think in platoons of vehicles. Losing the platoon leader has real effects on the ability to aggressively assert themselves. The greener the unit it stands to reason, the more pronounced the loss of leadership effect. Since the entire soviet TOE is new to the CM world, there are lots of new units to gawk at. I personally did not see any units I did not expect to see based on the previous statements from BFC [ July 05, 2002, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: barrold713 ]

The turns seemed to take roughly the same time to complete. As I am not 100% knowledgeable about rune's setup, I would suggest looking at the FAQ for system requirements. I seem to recall a 16MB video card being the minimum, but I may be mistaken so check it out. Did I mention how great the doodads look and how they add depth and perspective to the battlefield? BDH

Louie While the scenario I played did not end up in such a run and gun battle per se, I could definitely see how that would be possible as it enfolded. The extreme FOW also added a layer of chrome fantasiticalism to the already tense atmosphere present in CM:BO. Those added seconds of not exactly knowing ratchet of the pucker factor in a most pleasant way! BDH

Ha! I'll tell you we tried, but rune was especially tight-lipped about even the slightest hint of an answer outside of the oft-quoted "when it's done". There seems to be quite a bit of content finished so much work has been done, and I detected hints of a feverish pitch and long hours being put in by all involved so the efforts continue. From what I saw accomplished so far, it looks great, runs smoothly, and sounds fantastic. Rune said with an evil grin that we had not seen everything yet and more was coming so color me impressed and salivating for the release date. Since my birthday is July 13th, I wouldn't mind terribly if I received an extra special present, but we'll have to see. Having this look today, I KNOW POSITIVELY that it will be worth this minor wait. BDH

Losing the platoon leader does indeed greatly effect the surviving tanks in the unit. I suppose the effect is greater with the greener the unit, but I don't have specifics. It does greatly alter your thinking about armor tactics. I did not see any horses. BDH

Well I am back home after a three hour drive (including a stop for dinner) and ready to give my considered opinion on what I saw today. The drive home was conducive to brewing even more excitement as the smell of powder and flash of shells was in the air from all the fireworks displays I saw from the highway. First I would like to again thank rune for hosting the event. It was great to meet him and the others that showed up. I would suggest Lord Dragon marry his girlfriend as soon as possible. Any women who can give you a good game and wants to stay for more turns than you before having to be dragged off to other activities is a keeper. I brought my laptop and CM:BO to compare games side by side. The first noticeable aspect in this comparison is of course how much better CM:BB looks. It appears to be more of a difference from a nicely mod-ed CMBO than the mods are over the original graphics. This doesn't really do justice to the crisp and clear environment that made the old game look almost cartoonish. The improvement in appearance is much greater than I had anticipated being possible with what was supposed to just be an evolution not a revolution. We definitely saw a work in progress, but as was stated, the specific features we are not supposed to mention are sure-fire enhancements to the immersion and environment of the game. I would love to let the cat out of the bag, but as we agreed to secrecy, I won't. I understand that what we saw may have things subtracted or modified and besides, it is cool to discover these things while exploring the battlefield. Trust me, the "holy crap, did you see that?" rush will countermand any doubts as to the reasons for secrecy. These features zing up the neato-factor certainly, but they are excellent surprises outside of other new functions accurately provided within the CMBB FAQ. Gameplay retains the soul of the original with a wide variety of tweaks and additions that really flesh out the vision admirably. Charles and Steve have taken the lessons learned from CM:BO and listened to their customers to wring out a whole new level of play. Whatever a new engine brings about in future iterations of the CM franchise, there should not be any legitimate consideration of CM:BB as a mere repackaging of old material. Everyone at BFC has done stellar work at embedding obvious measures of quality into this product. Kudos are already deserved for your efforts and this taste has me frothing for another fix. I can't wait! Consider some of the things recalled from a scenario rune let me go through after everyone else had to go in order to show how extreme FOW works. The big news is that the attacker is not going to have it so easy any longer. Machineguns and AT guns bring whole six-packs of whoop-ass to the table now. The tactics that will be needed to take advantage of them and also defeat them will require a truer application of realistic tactical doctrine than was previously the case. I have a screen shot saved by rune of an 88mm AT gun with 10 vehicle kills and 10 infantry kills! It was under serious showers of heavy shells but came through it honorably. Maligned in the past perhaps, but I was shown why these guns were truly feared for their ability to reach out and touch someone in a way that really ruins their whole day. Machineguns come into their own with the adaption of many of the suggestions listed on this board in past discussions. Anyone who treats these units as they were in CM:BO is going to be writing a great deal of letters to the cyber parents of the men under their command. As I drove I was envisioning setting up scenarios involving desperate against-all-odds defenses and heroic stands against hordes of vicious, unrelenting attackers. CM:BB seems at this point to be able to bring this and more. Bottom line...if you liked CM:BO in any small way and have the slightest inkling of an iota of interest or knowledge about the East Front, YOU ARE GOING TO FREAKIN' LOVE CM:BB!!!! So overall I enjoyed the afternoon. Let me know if you have any questions and I will try and answer within the constraints requested by BFC. BDH