JoePrivate

No that's not correct, Volksstrum can only go up to Regular in experience, they have their own force category. Volksgrenadiers are under Heer and can have the whole range of experience.

The PzIV/70 is better armoured and carries the Panther's 75L/70 gun. The JgPzIV has less armour in CM and carries the 75L/48 gun. Your using the term JPzIV/70 may be what is confusing you.

Pillar, Not meaning to intrude but I have an observation. While I enjoy and appreciate the work you have presented as well as ScoutPls, I think there is something fundamental you are missing that is directly related to your discussions with ScoutPL. To you it is a game, an intellectual exercise at best, you talk in terms of advocate, or debate, or doctrine, or my concepts etc, ie 'choice'. That's fine but it isn't relating on the same level with ScoutPL, who is/was doing these things as a way of life. His background is based on the practical reality, of doing and the descisions and responsibilities that go along with it. I doubt very much if the mindset you are presenting would be favoured or advantageous for the commander on the ground, something entirely different may be required. Not sure if I am being clear but just wanted to present another viewpoint for your benefit so the discontent or misunderstandings evidenced before in the scouting/recon thread wouldn't be repeated. If I am way off base then I apologize.

No references handy but I can recall several accounts of such behaviour when the Germans attacked in the Bulge. The German troops needed to be led by example which resulted in a high mortality rate for NCOs and officers.

Not sure exactly what you mean. Are you saying you want to place the AP mine in the space between the pavement 'tile' and heavy building 'tile'. Not going to happen as you noted because the AP mine requires a 'tile' all it's own. You probably could do it in the editor by placing the AP mine first then the pavement and heavy building, taking advantage of that 'quirk'. Otherwise you are out of luck, searching for that 'pixel' will be pointless. If the AI has done it, which I haven't seen, then it probably is along the same lines as what you can do in the editor. Not really a big deal is it? As you could basically achieve the same purpose by placing the AP mine in front of the heavy building.

"German Advance to the Resseta River" July 1942 from Small Unit Actions during the German Campaign in Russia. "When the 19th Pz Div attacked northeastward from Kholmishchi, the forward armored elements ran into strong Russian AT defenses south of Nikitskoye. In devising their defense system, the Russians had taken full advantage of the concealment offered by the terrain and vegetation. One German armored column drove straight into an AT gun front disposed in a semi-circle facing south.The Russian guns, emplaced in pairs for mutual support, were dug-in so the muzzles were just above the surface of the ground. Between each pair of guns was an additional AT gun mounted on a two-wheeled farm cart. The cart-mounted guns were camouflaged but no effort was made to conceal them. As the German tanks advanced, the dug-in guns fired a volley then ceased. Seeking the source of the fire, the Germans noticed the guns mounted on carts and moved toward the newly discovered targets. As soon as a German tank turned to bring the cart-mounted guns under fire, it was hit from the side by Russian AT fire from the concealed positions. The cart-mounted guns were dummies. Several tanks were lost in the action before the Germans succeeded in knocking out all the real AT guns. In emplacing the dummy guns, the Russians were careful to leave just enough of the gun visible to make it an attractive target. Taken in by this ruse, the Germans turned their tanks to face the decoys, thereby exposing tracks and lateral armor, the most vulnerable parts." (italics mine)

You are right, it is rash to rush into an unknown situation. Try using Move instead of Run and have some support assets give covering fire if needed. Better yet suppress the area first if there's even a remote chance of having enemy troops. In CM you are the Platoon Leader, your troops were just following your orders. Probably not what you are looking for but the tools are there in CM already to avoid that.

The 150IG is a big slow gun, IIRC about 2 shells a minute, not sure of the wisdom of having it open up on moving targets, which I'm sure you can attest to now. The tracking of a target out of LOS was a feature many people wanted so no not a bug. I usually find it best to let the TacAI handle targetting for MGs, YMMV. If you want carnage then try to pin and place the enemy with MGs/mortars etc before opening up with the IG, hope you find something useful.

Yep, a buttoned AFV is a sitting duck usually when alone but the nefarious hive-like mind of the troops saves their bacon, er goose.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Ok...BTS, I would like to see what kind of discussions were taking place before the betas and 1.1. Do you have a link for a thread on this or was it all in e-mail? I did a search, but found nothing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Here's a few links to give you a bit of history, I did a search also and there is a lot out there. This will get you started anyway. http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/011102.html http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/011362.html http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/011026.html http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/011166.html

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Henri wrote: Maybe you are right, my impression was based on the following: in a 1000-pt QB engagement, infantry is the key element, because IT has to take and to hold the objective. Assuming that the artillery and tanks cancel each otehr out, in the end it will be the remaining infantry that decides the battle, at least that has been my experience (the tougher infantry usually belonging to the opponent).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I agree with the importance of the infantry which why I usually try to have more on hand. It may just come down to playing styles but I wouldn't trade artillery to get a veteran company versus a regular one. For me the artillery facilitates the maneuver/attack of my infantry. It will suppress and weaken the opposition's troops so when I do assault, the task is much easier accomplished, even with regulars. By having veterans you would need to be more careful keeping them intact as they will be fewer in number. I must admit it's been a rare game when the artillery and tanks cancel each other out, leaving the remaining infantry to battle. Usually I find one side or the other gains dominance then steamrolls through the opposition.

Yes Henri that was a typo, it should have been a MkIVJ not an H. I'm not sure why you would say it is less effective against infantry however. I would always go for quantity(Regular) over quality in the smaller battles. Direct HE and artillery being indiscriminate in the damage it does. The M10 has some disadvantages, weak armour and a very slow turret. It's 76 gun is the same as the German 75 for all practical purposes. The Hetzer on the other hand is very tough from the front when HD, it can shrug off 75 AP and most 76 AP(not tungsten) so if allowed to duel it will usually come out on top. It has weaknesses too of course. Like everything else in CM, maximize your stengths and minimize your weaknesses, no matter what side you play.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Elijah Meeks said: About what? First ammendment rights for foreigners on the Internet? This is a yappy dog post, Joe, so get yourself a yappin.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'll need a juicier bone than that to start howlin'

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"A German player still has just as much chance to win now as they did in 1.05... if he knows how to use infantry." Its rather hard and annoying to be asked to take out a tank pummeling you from a stand-off position because your inadequate tank force has been quickly decimated by increased numbers of allied tungsten-using TDs and tanks. Understand, the reason Im making such a big deal is that I like playing small (around 1000pt CA ME). When I play these battles I am forced (as a German player) to rely on inadequate armor support in games. I must either buy 2 reg. hetzers, a PZIV and a hetzer, a JgPzIV and an infantry killer such as Wespe, Stu42 or Hummel, but never 2 AT capable units and an infantry killing armor unit as before. Please do not say "Play bigger battles!" I don't like bigger battles. The incr. support points do not help in 1000pt battles as the biggest inf. killer I have there is a 75 mm with meager ammo. I guess a could tow a 150mm inf gun around, but that's rather irritating in MEs. I don't get me started on MEs with computer generated forces at 1000pts and combined arms with the new points...play the Germans in this situation and prepare to pull your hair out. I now must buy my forces in ALL QB CA MEs to ensure a capable fight at all. These little battles were great fun before. I challenge anyone to tell me that 1000pt QBs CA MEs are balanced when playing the Germans now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ok WolfLord, Contrast the following force combinations allowed under 1.05 with the ones above posted by Vanir. The setup is 1000pt ME Combined Arms under 1.05. Axis Example#1 1 Security Company(2MG42/2Mortar) 1 Security Platoon 1 PantherA 1 StuH42 1 250/9 1 250/8 1 120mmFO Example#2 1 SS Rifle Company(2MG42) 1 SS Rifle Platoon 1 Vet Panzershreck 1 MkIVH 1 StugIII 1 Lynx 1 234/3 2 81mmFO Example#3 1 FJ Company(3shrecks/1 81mmFO) 1 MG42 1 PzIV/70 1 JgPzIV 1 250/9 1 250/8 1 Pak38 1 250/1 HT US The US can't even afford a Rifle Company or more than 3 Platoons in a 1.05 1000pt game! Example#1 3 Rifle44 Platoons 2 Bazookas 2 .50calMGs 2 81mmMortars 1 M4A1(76) 1 M4A3 1 M3A1 HT 1 4.2"FO Example#2 3 Rifle44 Platoons 2 Bazookas 2 MGs 1 57mmAT 1 M3A1 SC 2 M4A1s 1 Greyhound 1 4.2"FO Example#3 3 Glider Platoons(3.50cal/3 60mmMortars) 1 Jackson 1 Hellcat 1 M8 HMC 1 M3A1 SC 1 81mmFO 1 75mm FO In all honesty WolfLord, looking at the combinations allowed under 1.05 and 1.1 where does the most disparity lay? Combined arms ME are more equal now than before IMO. Some of you guys are just looking at the points allowed without considering the force in total that was purchased. It is the total force as a whole you should look at, as that is what you will be using in the game. Comparing the changes from 1.05 in adjustments made to the cost of units and the points allocation, it is obvious to me BTS just didn't make an arbitrary decision, a lot of thought was put into the tweaks they made which for the most part are for the better. Hell, a person could make the claim that the German side has more of an advantage now than before because of the increase in infantry allowed under 1.1 coupled with more than adequate armour support. [This message has been edited by JoePrivate (edited 01-20-2001).]

What's this? The Old Guard marching out to support one of their own because a relative newcomer has the audacity to speak his mind? Boohoo, yes let's all be of One mind and have an intellectual discussion...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Scipio said: Okay, that's not REALLY a problem, but...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ...it's an affront to my sensibilities.

I disagree about the US having more flexibility, IMO the Germans still have the edge there even with reduced Armour points. Case in point for a 1000pt Combined Arms meeting engagement: Axis Example#1 1 SS Mot. Company(4MG42/2Mortars) 1 MkIVH 1 Hetzer 1 250/9 1 234/3 1 Panzershreck 1 120mmFO or Example#2 2 Volks. Companys 2 StugIIIs 1 234/3 2 MG42s 1 120mmFO or Example#3 1 SS Rifle Company(2MG42) 1 SS Mot. Platoon 1 LMG42 1 Puppchen 1 Kubelwagon 1 120mmFO 1 JgPzIV 1 MarderII 1 Puma US Example#1 1 Rifle44 Company(3MGs/3zooks/3mortars) 1 81mm FO 2 Hellcats 1 Vet Greyhound 1 M8 HMC or switch the armour to 1 M4A3 1 Hellcat 1 Greyhound 1 M8 HMC Example#2 1 Rifle44 Company(3MGs/3zooks/3mortars) 1 4.2"FO 2 M4A1s 1 Greyhound Once the US has selected a Rifle Company his choices are limited after that, of course the US player could select platoons then: Example#3 4 Rifle Platoons 2 MGs 2 Bazookas 2 M10s 1 Priest 1 M3A1 1 81mm FO The German still has more freedom in mixing and matching units. There's no need for a Panther when the 75L/48 is more than adequate for most Allied armour. I think if a player selects a balanced combined arms force then he will be able to deal with any situation that crops up with the proper tactics. [This message has been edited by JoePrivate (edited 01-19-2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>But in a 1000-pointer QB ME (which is what I believe is the most frequently played QB), the ONLY infantry company that the German Heer can choose is the Rifle company, all other infantry companies costing more than the maximum allowed to the Germans for infantry; and this German infantry is much inferior to the corresponding infantry Company that the US player can buy. The only way that the Germans can get better infantry is to buy them piece by piece, but still they will not have enough points to get a full company.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's simply not true, check again.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Oh really? Hmm..Id be curious how many times people have played games here and EVER found that their guys ran into mines IN a house.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's been a favourite tactic for some since the game came out. I guess it can still be a nasty suprise for the unwary

I don't think labelling the TankAI as 'broken' is justified at all, as others have said there are variables going on you may not be aware of. Personally I can recall a couple instances where a Sherman(Green) had a flank/rear shot on a Panther but popped smoke and reversed. I just shrugged it off because I know it doesn't happen all the time. Anyway I setup a test scenario where a Regular Sherman moves around a building to take a shot into the rear of a Regular buttoned Tiger. In 10 hotseat plays the Sherman never once popped smoke and reversed, it fired everytime. I have said this before but the reduced spotting ability of armour in 1.1 is really noticeable, in the tests the buttoned Tiger was really blind and slow to react as was the Sherman in targetting. Just for kicks I fast moved the Sherman across the street between the buildings, about 35m behind the Tiger's rear. Both times the Sherman never even spotted the Tiger! and the Tiger only got sound contacts on the Sherman.

Interesting question, I don't think there is a way to guarantee the first shot in a straight up match unless you try to control all the variables such as spotting, time to target(turret speed), ROF, crew experience etc. to your favour, those are the ones I'm aware of. From what I have seen there is no delay when switching from HE to AP. If you're looking for an edge, and who isn't , you could try something simple like waving your left hand then hitting him with your right, I have had some success with that method

What version of the game are you playing? That was reported to be fixed in 1.1.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>In reality, it would be nice for someone to come up with an argument against it, rather than saying that BTS has to prove why they did it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hehe, probably because some people complained that it wasn't balanced for the Allies before, that the Germans had an 'unfair' advantage. Funny, the arguments for and against were the same then as they are now, just with the roles reversed. [This message has been edited by JoePrivate (edited 01-17-2001).]

Go to ASL Maps for CM, in the Addons section there is a Unit Database which will breakdown the FP/range/cost of the different units for you.

Well this issue looks like it will go round and round until BTS steps in. It was my understanding the points allocation was adjusted for *balance* not for a historical reason. Other things changed were the Attacker/Defender ratio and points allowed in Support. The side playing the Germans has a plethora of AT/Inf support vehicles in the Vehicle category to complement the armour assets, the Allied side doesn't. The closest thing the US has, the M8 HMC, is in the Armour section. Now it could be argued that a reduction in German vehicle points or moving an AFV like the M8 HMC to the Vehicle section would have been possibly a better solution, I don't know, but definitely something was slightly off before 1.1 when selecting an equal point Allied force in comparison to the German one. Just my thoughts...