JoePrivate

Just had an idea to add to your points, in addition to a long command delay these troops could also be further restricted by allowing one waypoint only, to simulate a complete lack of tactical training and finesse. That may produce a human wave style attack!

I like the PzIIL quite a bit, its 20mm gun has a fast ROF and is very accurate, just the cure for all Allied light armour. Lots of MG ammo helps with infantry support. Compared to the 234/1 AC, it is a little cheaper, has a slightly faster turret and better side/rear armour; its ammo loadout and front armour are slightly inferior; their off-road speeds are about the same, though the 234/1 wins hands down on a road. The major drawback to ever purchasing one in a QB is being in the 'Armor' category instead of the 'Vehicles'.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to drive home here but what you described as a typical CM game *isn't* from my experience. It is definitely atypical. I would say an infantry coy in a typical CM game w/shrecks and fausts would account for zero AFVs, that's right ZERO. Maybe 1 AFV in a 3-5 game span for a shreck and that might be high. As for panzerfausts, well that's a pretty rare occurance, cause for celebration when it does. That's the point I was trying to make in my earlier post regards the range, the situations to use these weapons usually just don't occur. From my experience in CM the biggest killers of AFVs are AT guns and other AFVs.

Interesting, I don't know either if hiding impacts the recovery rate, however hiding doesn't allow guns/mortars etc to 'ready' their weapons after moving to a new location. I have played a couple scenarios with exhausted/weary troops and they seemed to have no problems hiding.

BTS hasn't said anything yet concerning what CM2 will include.

Well tom_w I wouldn't completely discard the tactic. Before running the test I was more than half convinced the stationary tank would get the drop on the hunting one because of the reduced spotting ability of moving AFVs. I was a little suprised myself to see it so even. Of course the big advantage for AFVs in CM is having infantry spot for your tank versus an enemy tank spotting on its own. [This message has been edited by JoePrivate (edited 03-16-2001).]

Well tom_w, in the interests of truth I set up a little hotseat test. I had 5 MkIVHs(out of LOS at start) hunt up to small light buildings to engage 5 stationary M4A3s through the buildings, each separated by bocage, range about 550m, all unbuttoned and Regular. I ran it 6 times for a total of 30 engagements. 14 times the M4A3 spotted the enemy first, 16 times the hunting MKIVH did. Only 4 times did a tank get a shot off first before being spotted(3xMKIVH/1xM4A3), usually the initial spotting was followed immediately by the other. These are 'clinical' tests so in game there could be other variables going on that would change that occurance. [This message has been edited by JoePrivate (edited 03-16-2001).]

I don't think it's an issue worth worrying about too much, just realize if your AFV is right next to a small building then it's possible it can have a LOS out of it. It seems to work more often from the 'rear' of the building, from the sides and front it seemed more quirky when I checked in the editor. It is a similar issue to the bocage one raised a few weeks ago where if you placed the unit right next to the bocage you would be able to 'see' farther. I don't know how well it would work in-game because to drive that close the AFV may just back off, I will have to check when the opportunity next arises. Either way there is no advantage to be gained, apart from an opponent who is unaware of that aspect, because in CM the LOS/LOF works both ways and being behind the building reduces the HC for both the firer and target. Hope that helps...

Yes, for all the talk of uber-tanks or uber-SMG squads, artillery can be by far the most unbalancing aspect of a CM game, so much so my regular opponents and I usually agree on some limitation. Spreading out can minimize its effects but not negate them.

You are making assumptions about your area of influence that may not always be true. BTS has abstracted the VL as being an important military objective that requires the close physical presence of a force in order for it to be under their control, IIRC that 'vicinity of influence' has a radius of 75-80m in CM. Is that in error? I'm not an historical grog but I recall examples during the Bulge where that held true. The advance of Peiper's spearhead was nominally behind the US lines. There were instances where the Germans passed through villages *held* by nearby weak US forces unable to stop them, yet a few hours later stronger US forces entered said village and prevented the 'tail' of Peiper's spearhead from proceeding. So it seems to me the physical occupation of important objectives is realistic. A problem with VLs in QBs is they are placed in an arbitrary fashion, making little sense as important objectives. A player designed scenario will have the objectives placed in a more sensible manner, maintaining the illusion they are the 'vital areas' that need to be physically controlled. However even in QBs, the abstraction of VLs is fine and workable as is. As others have pointed out, there are always crews or spent squads that can be sent to a 'safe' VL if necessary to ensure its control at games end. Your crossroads example brings up an interesting point. What if your opponent had a couple of guns 1000m away sighted on the crossroads, who would *control* it then? I agree there is room for improvement with VLs and what constitutes control, but the way they are modelled now is fine IMO. I'm sure BTS has many things are their list for improvements in CM2 so who knows. As an aside regarding victory conditions, the flags may play a larger role in small battles, I don't know for sure having never played one, but from my experience in larger battles the ratio of losses suffered versus losses inflicted is much more significant than control of flags.

Yes, the cooperative aspect sounds very interesting, email sent

I don't know of any specific programs but this site TweakFiles has many programs in the Diagnostic and Processor sections that may be what you are looking for.

I don't know how 'real' it is but a short while ago there was a scenario released called "Recon by Stealth" by Matt Hyra. Without giving anything away you use *scouts* for the first half of the game to gather info on the enemy position and strength. After that, based on your intel, you select from several groups of reinforcements the force needed to best accomplish the mission. It's explained clearly in the briefing, but I found it very interesting. I learned a few things playing

1- Let the TacAI pick the target, it'll switch readily enough. When a player selects a target for a unit it tends to stay with that target. 2- The allowable adjustment is 100m, though yeah the out of LOS black/red line is kind of a nuisance. A differing shade of green signifying out of LOS but still within the 100m would be more convenient.

As you can guess there have been many threads on this. Here's a few links but bottom line BTS has said no major change with regards to relative spotting until the engine rewrite, CMII. Hope that helps... The Lewis MOVE/RUN line length limitation Spotting in CM2/CMII What Is "Relative" Spotting?

It doesn't, you have to remember this sort of reconnaissance in practice was done before the battle, as CM depicts it, was even started. The Capt said it best CM is a game for our enjoyment.

There's a section in the Handbook on German Military Forces on reconnaissance, classified by the Germans as operational, tactical and battle. Their purpose and formation is similar to the US Army. Noteworthy IMO is the section on Battle Recon which I'll paraphrase in part here, for what it's worth... General Battle reconnaissance as a rule is begun when the opposing forces begin to deploy... the information obtained on the organization and strength of the enemy provides the basis for the conduct of the upcoming battle. Great emphasis is placed on terrain reconnaissance, most missions include terrain reconnaissance tasks. AC Patrols The Panzer Division dispatches armoured reconnaissance units equipped with armoured vehicles and numerous automatic weapons. AC patrols are normally composed of 3 armoured reconnaissance cars, an artillery observer and often engineers and motorcyclists as well, to deal with road blocks and demolitions. Tasks and objectives are defined clearly, a patrol of this type usually lasts 1 or 2 days. If enemy forces are met, action is avoided unless the enemy is so weak they can be destroyed without the patrol diverting from its main task. If enemy action is anticipated, then the patrol is reinforced with SP guns and occasionally with tanks. The patrol is never split up. While scouting a woods, a favourite ruse is to drive the leading car towards its edge, halt briefly to observe, then drive off rapidly, hoping to draw fire and reveal enemy positions. At roadblocks, the lead AC opens fire. If fire is not returned, tow ropes are attached to the road block. If necessary, the patrol dismounts and reconnoiters on foot with machine guns. Battle Reconnaissance Patrols An NCO with 3 or 4 men conduct reconnaissance patrols to get information on the location of enemy positions and minefields. They generally avoid contact and retreat when fired upon. Combat Patrols Consists of at least an NCO and 8 men, but are usually much stronger, from 15 to 20 men divided into two sections. These are raiding patrols sent to test the strength of enemy outposts and to capture prisoners. Equipment and Support Battle reconnaissance patrols are equipped with machine pistols and one or two light MGs. Engineers are often attached to clear a way through enemy wire or mines. Artillery support is given in the form of harassing fire put down just before the patrol reaches its objective. In other instances, pre-registered mortars and artillery will shell during the night the area to be reconnoitered. As soon as the barrage is lifted, the patrol advances under cover of MG fire. [This message has been edited by JoePrivate (edited 03-13-2001).]

Sure, getting the first shot in would be ideal and firing from 50m or less would definitely help. However waiting for that sub-50m shot could be likened to waiting for hell to freeze over in many cases, it probably ain't gonna happen. Depending on how the shreck is deployed and when it opens up, it *should* be able to get two shots off before being spotted. That's something I count on anyway. Also IIRC, the hit chance around 100m is close to 45-50%, not exactly low in my book. Just my thoughts...

A general rule of thumb for faust range would be about half their designation, so PF30 - 15, PF60 - 30 etc. Though I remember a squad firing its faust100 at a Sherman at around 80m, much to my opponent's and my suprise. They will usually KO what they hit but not always, there's no guarantee. I don't agree at all with the 50m range for the shreck. Obviously closer is optimal but a vet shreck team has a better than good chance of scoring a hit at around 100-150m. I have seen them regularly get hits after 2 or 3 shots at that range. Everyone has different experiences I guess.

Yes, your explanation at the end is right on the money. BTS has stated before that the turn's resolution is calculated beforehand, so before the movie is even played a hit or miss has already been determined. The path of the shell and any obstacle it encounters is not calculated on the fly, something BTS has said would require a lot of processing power etc. That sort of resolution would be ideal in the future but I don't know how practical it is.

Good one kump, that crossed my mind to mention but I thought it was too obvious!

That's very interesting because I do what you have described all the time and the troops dismount immediately, before the paused vehicle starts its movement. Perhaps it's something specific with what you did or your situation I don't know. Contrary to what russellmz posted, I have never had any problem dismounting troops from a vehicle with movement orders.

Let me guess, the unit was taking heavy fire and it was isolated - no friendlies around. That's a recipe for capture every time...

They are in the background/weather SFX files, 5004 - 5007.

Sure if it's come to that point, having those troops around won't stave off the inevitable. However before it gets to that point, having those able-bodied men around to keep the global morale up has an effect on the behaviour of your overall force, whether they are more likely to panic, get pinned or rout etc. Troops will be more on top of a situation when global morale is say 90% versus 40% when they are more likely to turn tail. Juardis, AFAIK global morale only looks at the number of troops 'alive'(their point value) compared to your losses, on the map. Units that are exited don't enter that equation. [This message has been edited by JoePrivate (edited 03-09-2001).]