DrBrydon

I was playing "Parker's Coressroads" as the American's over the weekend (don't worry, no spoilers here). I noticed that as the German's pushed into my perimeter, one squad seemed to be holding out. By the time I went to look at it, it was down to it's sergeant only. Then I noticed that the squad had 24 infantry casualties. It was wiped out two turns later (turn 34 of 35), having managed a nice round 25 casualties caused. Now this seems like a remarkable number. Since this squad didn't engage until around turn 8, that's almost one per turn. I checked the other squads and it seems that 4 was the average. The most I can recall seeing before is 11. So Sergeant Norton, Glider Infantry, goes in my little hall of fame. If all my squads had done that well.... ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

JANFU: joint Army-Navy Foul Up.

I also would be interested in this discussion. I have seen flamethrowers used to some effect in defense, but they usually on get off one or two 'shots'. On the attack, I find them too slow. I have found that flamethrowers and flamethrower tanks are great on night attacks. Based on that, I would say that they seem to be more likely to make it into action if used against buildings, rather than pill-boxes. I'd rather have a heavy-tank for that. Or direct-assault by infantry from the side or from behind. ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

My experience has been that if I sit too long, I start to get incoming mail. Since I'm usually softening up some position and being too cautious, once the shells start to land I getting everything moving fast, preferably towards the enemy. The computer in my experience rarely drops arty blind, he's usually on target, and moving 60 yards will usually get you out of the worst of it. Best overall advice: don't sit still too long, and don't bunch up, especially vehicles. ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

Common vehicles? How about the M-24 half-tracked mortar carrier (the one where the mortar actually points to the front)? Rarer? I too vote for French vehicles. The 21st Pz. Div. in 1944 was armed primarily with captured stuff. Rare? Everything. If you want common choose common. If you want to see how shells it takes Stuermtiger to knock down a building, go ahead. ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

Must have been the 30th Infantry Division, "Roosevelt's SS". I've seen units fired on AS they surrendered, but haven't seen them take casualties. ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

Hell, yes, I remember. First computer wargame I ever played. On the old Apple II. Amazing what they could do 128KB of RAM (tell THAT to the kids today). I still have the game, and the computer. ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

I think it is called "Target Zero". It's set in the Korean War. There's an American or British Sherman, an American mortar team, an infantry squad and blonde UN worker. They defend a hill against the Chinese. When I was a kid I thought it was great. When I finally found it a few years ago...PU! ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

I think it is gamey unless it's a desperate situation. I don't think you could get crews to do that, nor would their commanders be thrilled about using their highly trained crews as cannon-fodder. OTH, last night my M8 howitzer got in too close and got knocked out. The crew bailed and proceeded to knock out a Sdkfz 7/1, because it was an us or them case. ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

I agree with Joe. In fact, I think that's the best improvement I've heard suggested. Something that would be visible during the orders phase, like the 'path' feature. It's too easy to miss the fact that units have started to take casualties. I think it would be a great way to determine overall status at a glance. ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

Played one of the standard CM scenarios and had a bazooka team take out a Panther from the rear. It took him five shots, but after the third he was under small arms and assault gun fire. I really needed to get that Panther, too. Last night, I was playing another standard scenario (I don't want to spoil it, I'll just say it was U.S. Paras at night). I thought I was pretty much done when a Panther rolled out of the night. All my armor was gone. I had a bazooka run up behind the Panther. One shot and 'gute nacht'. I check the bazooka team and they'd already had one casualty. I checked the kills and they had done for 2 infantry casualties, 1 20mm gun, 1 Ostwind, and the Panther. Not bad for eight rounds of ammo. Unfortunately, they didn't make it off the field. ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

I actually started a thred about this topic a week or two ago, too. I think that the map edges are an artificial constraint in the game. In many cases this may not matter because of what is being simulated. I think the problem is that in many cases beyond the edge of the map would be other units providing support, especially for a defender. "Edge creep" is valid insofar as it represents flanking, but it creates an unrealistic opportunity for flanking in many cases. If you are moving down the left edge, you sould be just as open to fire from the left as the right. (Again, in many cases, there are obviously circumstances where there is no flank support.) My suggestion was that the attacker have an attack zone set in from the map edges. The defender would have the entire map width to set up on, but to keep him from robbing the edges, there would be objectives there that he would have to occupy (or at least figure out the trade off of not occupying them). The fact that I can take a hill on the left edge of the map and only have to worry about fire from the right is unrealistic. ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

In the last year mainly "Railroad Tycoon II", "Rollercoaster Tycoon", "Majesty" and "Age of Empires II". Some "Twelve O'Clock High: Bombing the Reich". Over 4th of July vacation a group of us did about 3/5ths of "Diablo II". ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Kind of gamey,IMO<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's a new one on me. What's "garney"? (Clever and handsome?) In the old days it used to be pure edge creep. I justified it because AIs cheated. The simple fact is that everyone is going to cluster defense around the objective. The indirect approach is the only way. If garney means not quite cricket, I agree, that's why I suggest the elimination of the edge. ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

Mmmm...desert warfare. My vote is that CMII be North Africa. It's got everything: romantic villain (Rommel), cowardly henchmen (Italians), and a plethora of colorful Allied units (Indians, Aussies, Foreign Legion). It could even cover the Balkans. ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

This is part critism and part suggested tactic. It seems to me that the biggest problem with computer games is the unrealistic nature of flanks. I realised way back in the SSI 'Kampfgruppe' days that, if you move along one edge of a map when attacking, you cut your exposure to enemy fire. In reality, only in very favorable circumstances would an opponent's flank being hanging in the air like that. Normally there would be other units covering the flank, or, more importantly, the *possibility* of other units on the flank. The effect is that while the flank is always vulnerable for the defender because there's no support, it also means that the attacker doesn't have to worry about his own flanks. Now the bad (good) thing about 'Kampfgruppe' is that it would rarely shift units towards a breakthrough. you could just roll up the line. The good (bad thing about CM is that the AI reacts realistically when I get onto his flank and begins shifting forces. I think that the only way to make this more realistic would be to have an attack zone or corridor that was set in from the map edges. The defender would then have the whole map width to set up on. To prevent the defender from ignoring his flanks (and piling on) there could be 'defender only' objectives on the flanks. He could abandon them only with the knowledge that he'd be losing VPs against whatever gain he hoped to make (I love the way an objective goes neutral in CM if you don't occupy it). Well, those are my thoughts. I'd be interested to hear what others think. ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

I built a new PC last weekend, and when I was done I wanted to load CM. I tore my office up looking for the disc until I remembered it was in the other puters drive. You should check out www.tamiya.com/japan and look at their new 1/16 scale Tiger with gun flash and recoil. Wow! ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

Ditto ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sneaky: Gordon Spiers, the piper who piped in The Longest Day (not the guy in the film, he did the sound over) used to be the PM prior to his death in 1994. The tune played there escapes me for the accurate name but it's Bear....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> "The Black Bear" ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kverdon: Am I remebering right or not, but did not the Ox and Bucks at Pegasus Bridge hear the pipes of Lord Lovat's group coming to relieve them (or was that just in TLD?) Kevin<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I suspect that if it was in the movie it was factual. It doesn't beat the scene in "Gunga Din" though when they here the pipes, though! Anecdote from Farwell's "Mr. Kipling's Army": In the late 19th century a senior Russian naval officer was visiting a British mess. After the cloth was pulled, the pipers appeared. Apprehensive at first, after a while the Russian began to drum his fingers in time with the music. Finally he turned to his neighbor and observed, excitedly, "They're playing a tune!" Anyone know if the 51st Division used pipers in battle in NW Europe? ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NCrawler: Yes you can. I do it all the time...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Really? Frankly, I never thought to try. Seems like a waste of ammo, in sim terms. ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

OHMYGOD! That'd be great! I only remember Brits using pipes in the Western Desert? Can someone confirm that? Would they be a support unit? (Don't forget to put them on hide when appropriate.) ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

The best book I've read dealing with the German War Economy is called "Strategy for Defeat" by Williamson Murray (it has also been published as "Luftwaffe"). Murray's basic thesis is that, because Hitler thought he would be able to win the war quickly, he didn't mobilize the German economy (or Armed Forces for that matter) for a sustained effort. Hence the failure to integrate the economies of the occuppied countries with the German ecomony or to establish mass-production techniques earlier. Murray gives lots of good examples of the inefficiencies of the German ecomony that existed when Speer took over. I can't quote from memory, but I believe that 20-30% of aluminum used in aircraft production was wasted. Even Spper apparently couldn't get aircraft manufacturers to stop hand-making leather pilot's seats. Although his book is primarily about the GAF, much of his discussion pertains to the German economy as a whole, and I think his thesis is valid. Again, from memory, it wasn't until 1941 or 42 that most plants went to more than one shift. Apparently in 1940 the German's were actually preparing to de-mobilize some divisions. The thing to remember is that in 1935 Hitler did not think he would be fighting the rest of the world in 1942. He thought the Western powers wouldn't fight, and that he could everything as he was to do the Saar, Austria, and Czechoslovakia. The only arm that had a plan for expansion was the Kriegsmarine, and Hilter had told them there would be no war before 1942. I think Dale brings up a good point. Hitler, and his cronies, did quite a bit to disrupt the functioning of the economy, and so led to their own downfall, but if they hadn't started the war, it wouldn't have been a problem. ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

Oops. Edited and wound up posting twice. See next one. [This message has been edited by DrBrydon (edited 08-03-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darwin: If I remember correctly BTS stance was that bridges required a bit of work, time, and a lot of HE(more than a few satchel charges) to destoy. Beyond the scope of CM.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think Wayne's point about Engineers in the Battle of the Bulge is a good one. As I recall that was a single company that blew a number of bridges. Now, they may have carried more explosives than "normal" (what would an Engineer Batt. have as standard stores?), but it certainly happened, and as a simulation shouldn't we be able to portray that? ------------------ Will --- "The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.