Disaster@work

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr. Johnson-<THC>-: the URL is www.nlm.cjb.net Team Fortress2 is going to be a semi-historical FPS WW2 game. They will be shipping the game with headsets!!! Valve I think is the publisher and It does not even have a release date because they won't release it until it is a revolutionary piece of software.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Everything I've read about TF2 is that it has nothing to do with WWII. However, it does promise to be a step up in the squad based FPS genre. In the original TF you can play one of many roles (unlike Counterstrike where your role is generally defined by the type of weapon you specialize in). In TF2 they add one more important role: Commander. As the Commander you actually have a different perspective than the squad who relies on you. You have an overhead view (or map view) where you can see the strategic perspective of the map and can then give warnings or directions to your teammates. This is potentially quite a funny concept. I mean, it's not like 14 year old Jimmy from Talahasee gives a **** what I (as commander) have to offer in terms of strategic advice. And imagine a commander who doesn't have a great command of the English language attempting to give you commands. In CS and TF some people have mastered typing quickly and communicating somewhat adequately tactical information while they are fighting. With headsets, this opens up a whole new realm of communications. However, I am sure that the TF2 crew is heavily in testing over what works in voice com and what doesn't. Real life military personnel have to be trained in how to properly use the airwaves, not just blabbing out screaming nonsense. Of course, everyone who has ever engaged in a multiplayer game has the experience of mouthing off with juveniles who haven't learned to limit their trash talk. Imagine that on the air waves. I did try headset comm in Rainbow 6 and in Sid Meier's Gettysburg. In Rainbow 6 I found many people just couldn't convey adequate information about the situation with any usefulness. Problems were: describing where they were, identifying who was speaking, and conveying what they wanted. Finally, not many people had microphones to begin with so one annoying person might be shouting through everyone else's speakers. In SMG, the level of adult conversation was a lot higher but it felt somehow inappropriate to be using a microphone to talk in a civil war game. Sure, one general might ride up to the next to share info. But engaging in radio communications during the battle? Also, because of the nature of the timing of the game there were often looong spaces between any useful need to communicate. But this would be different for a WWII or modern game. ------------------ ---- To download my scenarios: go to http://www3.telus.net/pop_n_fresh/combatmiss/index.htm

There is a good tribute article to Seal Team here at SimHQ: http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/features/perfect_fps/perfect_fps.shtml

I remember Seal Team and I exchanged mail with one of the makers wayy back. That was a really nice game, amazingly claustrophobic in the jungle even with graphics of that era. Other squad based games such as Spec Ops, SWAT owe a lot to it with its keyboard commands for teammates, and perspective, etc. The missions were very well designed as well where the smallest mistake could alter your ability to complete them. A WWII style game like Seal Team has potential.

I played WIE a few months back. Although it was fun to play the beach map, being the allies was an exercise in frustration. EVERYONE wanted to be the Germans pouring fire down into the landing craft. I bet it was fun for them but not for the allied player. Even with the 'gamey' unrealistic play it offered up the question of how 'fun' a first person wargame might be. For example, would it be fun if you went over the top in the Somme? In wargames it's fun because your game isn't over when someone dies. It's over when a lot of people die [This message has been edited by Disaster@work (edited 08-18-2000).]

It's not a bad idea. An FPS WWII game would have to show restraint and I don't know if that is possible given the FPS market in general (bigger guns! More interesting deaths!). I mean, how fun would it be if it was really realistic. Let's say it was a compromise like you were a commando. So you might have the best weapons of the era. Certainly not a battlefield setting where the shot that killed you may not necessarily have been aimed at you by one of the dozens blasting away at you company on Omaha Beach. That wouldn't be fun at all. Good FPS compromises are Half Life Counterstrike and Rainbow Six. Counterstrike has the fun of squad level combat but still is more of a 'sport' than a sim. I am a huge Counterstrike fan, by the way. There is a Russian Front conversion of the Half Life engine that looked interesting from the screenshots. However, any Half Life conversion will be limited in its outside space. A better engine for outside spaces is Unreal, but I find its emplementation usually cartoony. Rainbow Six is pretty close to a sim but again becomes a sport in network play. By sport I mean the whole thing is essentially 'gamey' in the wargame sense. The only realistic part of it is the specific damage modelling but the rest of it relies on extremely gamey tactics. I tried to play Hidden and Dangerous (like Rainbow Six but set in WWII) but it was soooo buggy that I gave up. I understand that it hsa a following, however. Avoid Medal of Honour at all costs. Even though it was made by the game division of Dreamworks, it bares no resemblance to Saving Private Ryan, no matter what their marketing department said. Wolfenstein is coming out again using the Quake engine but you can bet that it goes as far as the original Wolfenstein 3D (not the Muse software version!) in 'realism'. It will be rightly designed for fun. I predict more gatling gun armed Hitlers. What would be more interesting is an FPS version of the ORIGINAL Muse game where stealth, taking prisoners, and disguise were part of the game. Adventure elements! [This message has been edited by Disaster@work (edited 08-18-2000).]

ok how?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Philistine: Disaster@work--sorry, it looks like I, and verybody else, declined your invatation to go to the main board. Too much effort, I guess. Good topic, though. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sigh. I should have known it would be a lost cause.

This is my vain bid to route message traffic to the General Discussion Board which is the most appropriate forum for this kind of discussion. Please everyone gravitate over to the General Board to talk about the CNET Gamecentre article on dying game genres in the PC market including Wargames. BTS' Combat Mission is not mentioned in the article, unfortunately. Maybe the author's opinion would change if he had known about it? Start discussion here: http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum9/HTML/000071.html ------------------ ---- To download my scenarios: go to http://www3.telus.net/pop_n_fresh/combatmiss/index.htm

How would you define when an area is taken by an player if it's an area? One square of it has a unit on it? Count off how many units of each are on an area?

Thanks Parasite. Something this good deserves to be rewarded. ------------------ ---- To download my scenarios: go to http://www3.telus.net/pop_n_fresh/combatmiss/index.htm

Germans. Their SMGs and Panzerfausts are a big advantage.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ben Galanti: I agree that if a flag is in contention, the game should extend the number of turns. Now, of course, taht could lead to the tactic of rushing a squad to a flag to contest it to give your self more time to make a concentrated attack on another enemy held flag or some such...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Heh, well that would be fair It would be up to the defender to figure out whether that rush is just a feint and how seriously they should treat it. ------------------ ---- To download my scenarios: go to http://www3.telus.net/pop_n_fresh/combatmiss/index.htm

I should also point out that the manual is a very good one. i.e. it isn't just a rottenly thin PDF that you read once and throw away. This game deserves and has a thick manual that not only covers how to play the game but its philosophy, strategy and history. The writer should be congratulated. It adds a lot to the value of the game and is worth every bit of its purchase price. I don't want to add more hectoring but piracy shouldn't be directed to these people of all companies because of their size. How much more direct of a relationship can you have with the software makers than here? You're not stealing from a fat publisher here. ------------------ ---- To download my scenarios: go to http://www3.telus.net/pop_n_fresh/combatmiss/index.htm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Shaw: I've recently had a series of games in which the last few turns revolved around the "VL scramble". While I agree in general that this is a rather "gamey" aspect, I can usually rationalize it. As others have pointed out, it was not at all unusual for a superior officer to state "You've got take Hill 409 by 1400 hours or I'll find someone who can." And obviously the actual location of the VL is fairly abritrary in most cases. Since you have to "take the town" the location of the "the town" has to be specified somehow and VLs are about the only way to do it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, but at 1400 hours if there was a superior defending force the defenders wouldn't just look at their watch and say "Oh dear, end of regulation time" and then go home. Realistically, the only thing that should stop a battle are conditions not time. The victory location should NOT be arbitrary. In every one of my designed scenarios I've made the VL some strategic spot (the center of town, a hilltop, crossroads, a bridge head). Others should do the same. In the case of a town battle, the VL should be a major building, a rise, square, crossroads, or even a formation outside of the town that dominates it IMO. ------------------ ---- To download my scenarios: go to http://www3.telus.net/pop_n_fresh/combatmiss/index.htm

I am not the moderator but I've seen a good many Scenario-related posts in this forum and would like to point out that we do have a forum specifically for talking about, publicizing and testing user-created Scenarios. Just go up one level in the board hierarchy and you'll see it. It would be nice if we could generate more talk in that forum for designers such as myself and people who like playing those scenarios. Thanks! Also, for all these OT discussions, they could be brought up in the General forum. ------------------ ---- To download my scenarios: go to http://www3.telus.net/pop_n_fresh/combatmiss/index.htm [This message has been edited by Disaster@work (edited 08-17-2000).]

I won't offer my up my name but please take a chance on others scenarios. And please vote after you download them from CMHQ! ------------------ ---- To download my scenarios: go to http://www3.telus.net/pop_n_fresh/combatmiss/index.htm

Well it would be nice if people who downloaded scenarios voted more often! Over a 100 have downloaded some of my scenarios but one negative vote makes it look like they suck! ------------------ ---- To download my scenarios: go to http://www3.telus.net/pop_n_fresh/combatmiss/index.htm

the 'rush for the flag' gamey tactic would be negated if CM followed Sid Meier's Gettysburg in extending the time if a flag was contested within the last turn of the game, thereby giving the other player a chance to retake the flag if it was taken only as a sudden final rush with forces to weak to realistically hold it. The other SMG element that could be used is to have a flag have a contested state (the other states being, German, Allied, not-held), so that if the turn ended and even after extended time the two sides were still fighting it out over the flag that the points would be distributed evenly for that flag (or not at all - it would make no difference in the score). ------------------ ---- To download my scenarios: go to http://www3.telus.net/pop_n_fresh/combatmiss/index.htm

Starship Troopers works as an out and out farce of war movies. I had the best time laughing my guts out. It was Saved By the Bell meets Gung Ho. It's obvious that Paul Verhoven had a lot of contempt for the genre and wanted to beat the snot out of it by outraging people. If you can't laugh at the scene when the carrot top (Busey kid) cracks a smile after the crazy officer is squashed by the flying bug then you've missed the point. ------------------ ---- To download my scenarios: go to http://www3.telus.net/pop_n_fresh/combatmiss/index.htm

Any engine worth its snuff will import the major 3D packages or at least .dxfs or .objs. Anyone with 3DS Max or Maya could whip up a decent low poly tank model. However, no one should work for free. The only guarantee that they would have for completion is paying for it. Only paid jobs have a proper guarantee for being completed. How many times has anyone started a free project only to see people drop out after the initial enthusiasm has been spent. I'm sure some people would be gung ho, maybe even submit good preliminary material but when it comes to revisions, drop out. Then you are left with a half finished model that might have been good but now is useless. What business can count on that? Note: this is different than doing mods. I agree with releasing tools to extend the lifetime of the game. With mods the individuals or groups who make use of the tools are privy to their own work schedules. ------------------ ---- To download my scenarios: go to http://www3.telus.net/pop_n_fresh/combatmiss/index.htm

Try and buy a copy. The makers of this game are just two guys and their computers and have bills to pay. They're not Microsoft. If you don't buy a copy they won't make games like this anymore. ------------------ ---- To download my scenarios: go to http://www3.telus.net/pop_n_fresh/combatmiss/index.htm

You set up ambush points around your cubicle. You plot out sneak and crawl lines away from your meetings. ------------------ ---- To download my scenarios: go to http://www3.telus.net/pop_n_fresh/combatmiss/index.htm

hmmm how about trying this. Get an FT to ride the back of a tank. Get the tank to rush up close, FT drops off and the tank withdraws to provide cover. FT goes FLAME ON. ------------------ ---- To download my scenarios: go to http://www3.telus.net/pop_n_fresh/combatmiss/index.htm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: howardb wrote: Mind you, if the US military doesn't find a way to achieve 0.0 per cent casualty rates, they'll never fight a ground war again. And if Kosovo was anything to go by, that means they'll never win a war again. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> LOL There isn't a U.S. President out there who is willing to risk U.S. lives outside of the Americas. But soon enough. Watch Colombia in the next five years.

You can't script per se but if you give them objectives (the flags) they will to their best to head toward them. In preview mode you will see the flag(s) (little or big)on the map. Right click on them and in the popup menu choose Place. Then you can Place them anywhere. You do the same thing with the units. Right click and Place. The menu also includs a Rotation which I find useful. Also, you can Lock the units to the positions that you place them in and whoever plays your scenario will be forced to use those positions and so will the computer. Also pay attention to the Zones (one of the three modes in the tile scenario mapper). They should be fairly intuitive. The zones describe where the player (AI or human) can Place his troops at the beginning (if they are not LOCKED) that is. Read the manual for that.